The Plight of the Adivasis, Indian State Terrorism & the Moist Rebellion

[indianspetsnaz]

But they were never integrated into the main stream and we are now paying for that folly.

exactly the Adivasis were uncontacted peoples until the British discovered them and the British made no attempt to govern or integrate the Adivasis with mainstream society under the British they were given de facto autonomy and still today they pretty much do as they please because in these areas with the Adivasis live are heavily forested most of the areas lack electricity, hospitals etc the basics of a modern society are absent in the Adivasi territories we need to make contact and integrate them into mainstream society as the Adivasis make up a good majority of the people living BPL and there children suffer from the worst kinds of malnutrtion

like CD said urbanization is needed and we need to give some kind of representation to these Adivasis in the parliament as other Scheduled tribes and castes have that kind of representation

 

[Water Car Engineer]

exactly the Adivasis were uncontacted peoples until the British discovered

But they were never integrated into the main stream and we are now paying for that folly.

They were in the mainstream to a point. They did practice Vedic beliefs.

They weren't "discovered" by the British either.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The Plight of the Adivasis, Indian State Terrorism & the Moist Rebellion[

In the central India, thousands of miles away from the main stream media and urban public attention, a war is raging on for the past 40 years in the mineral rich are of conflict which has claimed the lives of thousands of Adivasis and displaced millions of them due to state crackdown and the brutalisation at the hands of the notorious CRP (central reserve police) and the rebels called Naxalites.

The main losers are the people here who are being displaced due to the showdown between the government and the rebels over the mineral deposits. The Adivasis way of life and their culture is in danger due to the deforestation and displacement and there are stark similarities all around the world like the natives of Amazon due to fighting between state and rebels and deforestation to Balochistan where the state is locked down with the Bughtis and Mengals over the control of the mineral resources to the forests in the far east Including Malysia and Indonesia where the natives yet again face the end of their livelihood and their identity due to forced displacement due to deforestation.

The uprising by Maoist fighters and its brutal suppression by the Indian government, has claimed more than 10,000 lives since 1980, and displaced 12 million people. Many of the victims are not even associated with either side. They are simply caught in the crossfire. And the violence is escalating as both sides mount offensive after counter-offensive.

Al Jazeera's Imran Garda travelled to the Indian states of Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa and West Bengal to get a secret glimpse into the world of the Naxalites and to meet with rebel fighters as well as those victimised by this conflict.

For generations, they have lived off farming and the spoils of the jungle in eastern India, but their way of life is under threat. Their land contains mineral deposits estimated to be worth trillions of dollars. Forests have been cleared and the Indian government has evacuated hundreds of villages to make room for steel plants and mineral refineries.

The risk of losing everything they have ever known has made many Adivasis fertile recruits for India's Maoist rebels or Naxalites, who also call these forests home.
The Maoists' fight with the Indian government began 50 years ago, just after India became independent. A loose collection of anti-government communist groups - that initially fought for land reform - they are said to be India's biggest internal security threat. Over time, their focus has expanded to include more fundamental questions about how India is actually governed.

India's Silent War - Al Jazeera Correspondent - Al Jazeera English


I invite our members to have an honest and open debate about this conflict and don’t let your emotions, patriotism and urge to rant and troll get the better of you.
Stay on topic and have your say and give your self a chance to stay positive, civil and constructive and get your reactive juices flowing. (PDF forum guidelines apply as always)

 

[Vibs]

The correspondent has mixed up Naxalite issue with the Adivasi displacement issue. The Naxalites are a rebel group fighting to displace the system of govt we have in India. But they have no intention of being seperatist. The Adivasis who have no concept of govt, country or at times even money become easy targets for recruitment as well as sources of supply.
The adivasis are definitely caught in a situation that they do not deserve. But frankly the Naxalite situation is a far bigger threat that most outside threats for India right now.
The fact that the Indian govt has not used the army yet has prolonged the situation but ensured that there is still a way to get the Naxalites to be politically engaged within the democracy. However, they don't seem to be reaching towards any olive branch that has been offered.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The correspondent has mixed up Naxalite issue with the Adivasi displacement issue. The Naxalites are a rebel group fighting to displace the system of govt we have in India. But they have no intention of being seperatist. The Adivasis who have no concept of govt, country or at times even money become easy targets for recruitment as well as sources of supply.
The adivasis are definitely caught in a situation that they do not deserve. But frankly the Naxalite situation is a far bigger threat that most outside threats for India right now.
The fact that the Indian govt has not used the army yet has prolonged the situation but ensured that there is still a way to get the Naxalites to be politically engaged within the democracy. However, they don't seem to be reaching towards any olive branch that has been offered.

nicely put there but little consolation to the affected people
India hasn’t deployed its regular troops because it still considers those people as its own if I am right? Sadly Kashmiris are not that fortunate although their land is touted to be the attot- ung (unbreakable part) of India. (no pun intended)

I cant agree more with you that this issue is far more complex, we cant just brush it black and white and make a verdict when the problem can be a mix of so many issues the cultural identities of Adivasis and the end goal of the Naxalites are just one of the many figments of this whole quagmire.
Yet I cant ignore the similarities in such stories that range from Amazon forests to the forests in the far East, where the centuries of traditions of the ancient tribes are at the brink of extinction because there is no one to raise voice of concern for their plight. By no one I mean the governments and international bodies and that’s understandable when there are mutual interests that supersede any moral argument for the human cost of such tragedies.

But, us people are mot bounded by such constraints and we have taken the lead in spreading the news and giving the first hand account of the current international events from Arab spring to the anti capitalistic movements, the roles are a bit reversed in such instances where the main stream media is following us bloggers and up loaders of first hand . witness accounts. It’s the power of the people who refuse to keep quiet and look the other way just because its not covered by the mainstream media. The results are remarkable specially after the Arab spring which has seen the fall of some of the most firm regimes.

 

[Subramanian]

nicely put there but little consolation to the affected people
India hasn’t deployed its regular troops because it still considers those people as its own if I am right? Sadly Kashmiris are not that fortunate although their land is touted to be the attot- ung (unbreakable part) of India. (no pun intended)

I cant agree more with you that this issue is far more complex, we cant just brush it black and white and make a verdict when the problem can be a mix of so many issues the cultural identities of Adivasis and the end goal of the Naxalites are just one of the many figments of this whole quagmire.
Yet I cant ignore the similarities in such stories that range from Amazon forests to the forests in the far East, where the centuries of traditions of the ancient tribes are at the brink of extinction because there is no one to raise voice of concern for their plight. By no one I mean the governments and international bodies and that’s understandable when there are mutual interests that supersede any moral argument for the human cost of such tragedies.

But, us people are mot bounded by such constraints and we have taken the lead in spreading the news and giving the first hand account of the current international events from Arab spring to the anti capitalistic movements, the roles are a bit reversed in such instances where the main stream media is following us bloggers and up loaders of first hand . witness accounts. It’s the power of the people who refuse to keep quiet and look the other way just because its not covered by the mainstream media. The results are remarkable specially after the Arab spring which has seen the fall of some of the most firm regimes.

The problem is not half as serious as you make it sound.The adivasis are caught in crossfire and it is the Naxals who are recruiting them promising them freedom in return for joining them.Yes,the Indian state especially the state governments are not totally faultless but there is nothing to especially discriminate against the adivasis.

 

[Vibs]

nicely put there but little consolation to the affected people
India hasn’t deployed its regular troops because it still considers those people as its own if I am right? Sadly Kashmiris are not that fortunate although their land is touted to be the attot- ung (unbreakable part) of India. (no pun intended)

I cant agree more with you that this issue is far more complex, we cant just brush it black and white and make a verdict when the problem can be a mix of so many issues the cultural identities of Adivasis and the end goal of the Naxalites are just one of the many figments of this whole quagmire.
Yet I cant ignore the similarities in such stories that range from Amazon forests to the forests in the far East, where the centuries of traditions of the ancient tribes are at the brink of extinction because there is no one to raise voice of concern for their plight. By no one I mean the governments and international bodies and that’s understandable when there are mutual interests that supersede any moral argument for the human cost of such tragedies.

But, us people are mot bounded by such constraints and we have taken the lead in spreading the news and giving the first hand account of the current international events from Arab spring to the anti capitalistic movements, the roles are a bit reversed in such instances where the main stream media is following us bloggers and up loaders of first hand . witness accounts. It’s the power of the people who refuse to keep quiet and look the other way just because its not covered by the mainstream media. The results are remarkable specially after the Arab spring which has seen the fall of some of the most firm regimes.

Indian troops are deployed where ever there are seperatist movements. The Naxalites are considered to be "one of our own people" because they still believe in the dominion of India. Kashmir and parts of the North East are the ones that are affected. The seperatists who are fighting against the state donot consider themselves Indian. Thats where the imposition of (in my opinion) draconian Armed Special Forces Act comes in. But I honestly cannot think of any other solution that the govt could come up with short of bombing its own people to clean up the region. That's the kind of situation you guys are facing in the North West of your country to. It's like " Damned if we dont and Damned if we do" kind of situation.
You are right in comparing the adivasis here with those in the Amazon. There are tribes here in India that actually speak Sanskrit, and also tribes that still retain the genetic lineage of the first humans to arrive in the sub-continent. Sadly, I don't see how they can continue living the way they do in today's world.
As far as power of the people goes, it depends on how the uprising is handled. Arab spring clearly was peaceful protestors against tyrannical regimes. I cannot say the same about the Naxalites, Baloch rebels or Kashmiri seperatists. Whats interesting is no-one seems to want to draw parallels between anti-regime protests and anti-capitalism protests. From my line of sight, they are quite similar.

 

[Vimana]

Very sad program the way the kids were drinking moonshine made me feel so i wish i could help these people

 

[Loyus]

nicely put there but little consolation to the affected people
India hasn’t deployed its regular troops because it still considers those people as its own if I am right? Sadly Kashmiris are not that fortunate although their land is touted to be the attot- ung (unbreakable part) of India. (no pun intended)

I cant agree more with you that this issue is far more complex, we cant just brush it black and white and make a verdict when the problem can be a mix of so many issues the cultural identities of Adivasis and the end goal of the Naxalites are just one of the many figments of this whole quagmire.
Yet I cant ignore the similarities in such stories that range from Amazon forests to the forests in the far East, where the centuries of traditions of the ancient tribes are at the brink of extinction because there is no one to raise voice of concern for their plight. By no one I mean the governments and international bodies and that’s understandable when there are mutual interests that supersede any moral argument for the human cost of such tragedies.

But, us people are mot bounded by such constraints and we have taken the lead in spreading the news and giving the first hand account of the current international events from Arab spring to the anti capitalistic movements, the roles are a bit reversed in such instances where the main stream media is following us bloggers and up loaders of first hand . witness accounts. It’s the power of the people who refuse to keep quiet and look the other way just because its not covered by the mainstream media. The results are remarkable specially after the Arab spring which has seen the fall of some of the most firm regimes.

Dear Irfan,

(I wil make my introduction later)

The general theory is that the Army is used when the people starts undermining the Constituting and challenging the integrity of India. Otherwise the situation comes under Law & Order for which well equipped paramilitary forces are required. The plight of the Adivasis are indeed sad. I have lived and studied in one such province of India - Jharkhand. Together with Chattisgarh they are regarded as tribal states. Unfortunately those lands are rich in coal, mineral deposit and for a energy hungry india the resources have to be utilissed. Unfortunately no one cares for the Adivasis because the mining companies in their greed tend to just bull doze them. Maoism is not a solution to this problem. Maoism started with the idea of undermining the political setup of India. It has ended up being the same exploitative force it was supposed to fight against. Maoists indulge in arson, violence, burning schools and stopping developmental activities in tribal areas. Who loses ? The tribals. You might try to segregate tribals and non tribals and say that non tribals exploit tribals. Not always ? Jharkhand is ruled by tribals under a tribal Chief Minister. Yet it is one of the poorest states of India. To run salt on its wounds.. one of its tribal Chief minister Madhu Koda is one of the biggest scamsters and is langiusing in Tihar jail. Who loses ? the tribals. At the end of it all you realise it is not a caste or tribe based explotation. It is a class based explotation in this country. And that class is colour, religion, caste, tribe neutral ----

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

@Irfan Baloch : you might wanna merge this thread with this one here----

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/136313-al-jazeera-indias-silent-war.html

 

[Vimana]

This is a big issue, India must strike a balance of development and ensuring equality whilst keeping the ecosystem intact. I think the state goverment should offer these people jobs in their own state so they can send their kids to school and build a better future. If we spending over $30 billion on defence and crore's for statues ordered by Mayawati surely we can setup a tribal fund for these neglected people.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Vibs , Loyus

thanks, Loyus, welcome aboard, I hope you will crate an introduction thread soon
you both have pretty much said the same thing re deployment of state troops and how a state reaches this decision. More or less for same reasons Pakistan deployed its troops less successfully if I might say in East Pakistan and much successfully in Balochistan that has less to do with the military tactics and more to do with our own tribal chieftain mindset who think that violence is the only way to deal with those who dare to oppose them, hence they don’t get the required public support they like which further exacerbates their anger towards the “insolent” Baloch commoners

Coming back to Indian unrest, You mentioned Jharkhand being led by tribsmen themselves with dismal results and outlook for the people they claim to represent. Along with some leaders with questionable background, again you will see the parallels all over the world. the common denominator is the native and the civilian who is the actual loosing party here.

You are right in comparing the adivasis here with those in the Amazon. There are tribes here in India that actually speak Sanskrit, and also tribes that still retain the genetic lineage of the first humans to arrive in the sub-continent. Sadly, I don't see how they can continue living the way they do in today's world.

Yup, same dilemma being faced by the Kelash people which is even more profound due to the sudden unhelpful attention of Taliban. but hey, regardless of nationality, ethnicity or religion , why not consider the human cost? Their culture and way of life being dismembered in this century. We cry a river for the polar bears and whales but what about the plight of our own kind? Are we going to decide for their fate? What sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom? The apathy or sympathy and care for the fellow beings?
Despite th all the moral arguments it seems might will remain right since it has been from the dawn of time. Either these people sublimate themselves in the rest of the population and loose their identity now or it will be done for them anyway.

Re naxalites rebellion, can we agree that there is a failure on the part of the leadership and its institutions? There is definitely a middle way? the Kelash valley for example is a reservation site and these people of Greek origin have been left on their own with their own laws and customs by the state in an Islamic republic . so what are the chances that these people are given some sort of reservation area/ park to live their lives according to their customs? Be it symbolic and maybe to accommodate few millions with the rest being offered good incentives and better living conditions if they join the state in building the infrastructure and exploiting the resources of the land. I can assume that any sane person will choose that open rather than to live in the continuous violence from both warring sides that is entering the 4th decade.

I am sure improving the quality of life for these people is a better option than burning their houses and beating up their women as and when the rebels attack the Indian paramilitary forces. Few animals and a field is all they have and when these are demolished in front of them that leaves deep marks and makes them a willing recruit for the rebels. This action by the Indian forces has some chilling similarities to the Israeli practice of demolishing the homes of the Palestinians because they know so well that for an Arab, his home is everything and its not just the physical hardship and monetary punishment that is the goal of the Israeli occupation forces but to cause the psychological trauma and emotion wound that has far more lasting impact.

The scenes in this video of the paramilitary beating up the young women and girls with such ferocity and hatred is not an easy viewing and I had to skip it. I get that the state’s organs have the duty to uphold its interests and its constitution but what differentiates a democracy in these modern times from the medieval kingdoms is the acknowledgement of the value of life and justice for its people and even those that are not its willing citizens. Only then it can look outwards and criticise other nations otherwise its just a house of glass.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

right merging the other thread with this

 

[Vibs]

@Vibs , Loyus

thanks, Loyus, welcome aboard, I hope you will crate an introduction thread soon
you both have pretty much said the same thing re deployment of state troops and how a state reaches this decision. More or less for same reasons Pakistan deployed its troops less successfully if I might say in East Pakistan and much successfully in Balochistan that has less to do with the military tactics and more to do with our own tribal chieftain mindset who think that violence is the only way to deal with those who dare to oppose them, hence they don’t get the required public support they like which further exacerbates their anger towards the “insolent” Baloch commoners

Coming back to Indian unrest, You mentioned Jharkhand being led by tribsmen themselves with dismal results and outlook for the people they claim to represent. Along with some leaders with questionable background, again you will see the parallels all over the world. the common denominator is the native and the civilian who is the actual loosing party here.


Yup, same dilemma being faced by the Kelash people which is even more profound due to the sudden unhelpful attention of Taliban. but hey, regardless of nationality, ethnicity or religion , why not consider the human cost? Their culture and way of life being dismembered in this century. We cry a river for the polar bears and whales but what about the plight of our own kind? Are we going to decide for their fate? What sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom? The apathy or sympathy and care for the fellow beings?
Despite th all the moral arguments it seems might will remain right since it has been from the dawn of time. Either these people sublimate themselves in the rest of the population and loose their identity now or it will be done for them anyway.

Re naxalites rebellion, can we agree that there is a failure on the part of the leadership and its institutions? There is definitely a middle way? the Kelash valley for example is a reservation site and these people of Greek origin have been left on their own with their own laws and customs by the state in an Islamic republic . so what are the chances that these people are given some sort of reservation area/ park to live their lives according to their customs? Be it symbolic and maybe to accommodate few millions with the rest being offered good incentives and better living conditions if they join the state in building the infrastructure and exploiting the resources of the land. I can assume that any sane person will choose that open rather than to live in the continuous violence from both warring sides that is entering the 4th decade.

I am sure improving the quality of life for these people is a better option than burning their houses and beating up their women as and when the rebels attack the Indian paramilitary forces. Few animals and a field is all they have and when these are demolished in front of them that leaves deep marks and makes them a willing recruit for the rebels. This action by the Indian forces has some chilling similarities to the Israeli practice of demolishing the homes of the Palestinians because they know so well that for an Arab, his home is everything and its not just the physical hardship and monetary punishment that is the goal of the Israeli occupation forces but to cause the psychological trauma and emotion wound that has far more lasting impact.

The scenes in this video of the paramilitary beating up the young women and girls with such ferocity and hatred is not an easy viewing and I had to skip it. I get that the state’s organs have the duty to uphold its interests and its constitution but what differentiates a democracy in these modern times from the medieval kingdoms is the acknowledgement of the value of life and justice for its people and even those that are not its willing citizens. Only then it can look outwards and criticise other nations otherwise its just a house of glass.

Cannot deny that there are a lot of valid points in there. The problem we see here is that the paramilitary forces are by and large recruits from the same region or closeby. These are people who have lived through this horror and are in many cases prejudiced. While the Indian state doesnot condone these actions, the prejudice coupled with horrible working conditions and constant threat (squads of paramilitary forces are regularly attacked by small armies numbering 200-500 Naxalites and massacred) and the mental agony of watching bodies of butchered colleagues coming in will add up to these kind of incidents. I donot condone it but can recognize the frustration that may have led to this kind of action.
What one doesnot see here and what is horrifyingly getting clear is that the Naxalites are using young recruits to not only add numbers but gain mute support of their parents. Additionally one of their major sources of income seems to be pornography made using the women from the tribal areas.
In the end there needs to be a political solution to this, but I dont see one unless the rebels drop arms. ANd the tribals will continue to suffer.

 

[Loyus]

Dear Irfan,

I will break down your reply into points:

1. Violence is the way to deal with Maoists: I do not condone violence but Maoists have to be dealt by paramilitary. Let me tell you why ? The Government has repeatedly asked them to shun violence and come for talks still they persist with violence. As late as last week the Chief Minister of my state asked them to give up guns and come for talks. But they do not. Maoists have built a cotorie of sorts where the top leaders indulge in kidnappings, ransoms to sustain their clout. They recruit young, impressionable kids to carry their objectives. Maoism has lost its purpose. Leave alone Democracy as means to find solutions they do not have any objectives. They fund their campaigns by getting money from mining companies who carry business in their area. They dictate the local tribals , cower them down and carry on senseless killings. Maoists are anti -development
2. The Indian paramilatry force are ill equipped in terms of training and mental conditioning. That is why innocent tribals fall victims. Just a couple of weeks ago some Jawans of the paramilatry went on strike because of their working conditions in the jungles. The postings are regarded as punsihments. Blame the Indian adminstratrs for these
3. The state politicians are just being themselves - politicians. They not only play with the emotions of the tribals but also the paramiltary forces. My chief minister never gave a clear cut order on hunting down Maosits. As a result the paramilitaries get frustated. Compare this with 1971 when Naxalism was nipped in the bud by anohter Chief minister in a couple of months. Also The late Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister created Grey Hound force that wiped out Maoism from North Andra Pradesh. Fighting Maoism needs political will. Unfortunately that is absent now
4. The plight of the tribals - You know we have reservations for tribals. The tribes are called Scheduled tribes because constituion guarantees them reservation in Governent jobs. This has actually benefitted a lot of tribals by uplifting their economic conditions. On the ground level if Maosits allow development schemes to flourish in tribal areas then it can benefit people. Also setting up steel plants, manufacturing industries can benefit tribals too,
5. Preservation of local culiture - I am not sure but in the Forest Act of our constituin the right to live in forests, ownership of lands is guranateed for tribals. Please google Niyamgiri Hills. It is because of world wide protests and protect the tribals of Orissa a multinational behemoth owned by a billionaire was stopped.
But Irfan, you known the theory of survival of the fittest.
Globalisation will inevitably lead to the extinction of tribal culture. They will assimilate into the mainstram and lose their culture. And this is not just with tribals. India has hundreds of thousands of customs, culture and languages. You think all will survive. Economics will dominate over evrything. I even think that someday my mother langugae Bengali will be lost.!!!Globalisation is a reality. No law will be sufficient to stop its onslaught on local customs amd traditions