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The Plight of the Adivasis, Indian State Terrorism & the Moist Rebellion

Thats why I think GoI's strategy of using brute force against Maoists are not gonna work bcs the forces are killing Tribals while the 'ruling class' of Maoists are safe inside their jungle hideouts. Govt should use SFs or specially trained CRPF units to go deep inside the jungle and specifically target the Maoist leadership or better use UCAVs. Kill the head and the tail will wither.

This Maosi rebellion and the fight aganist it,both are sham ,i would call it scam.

The both central Govt and respective state govts have sent police and paramilitary forces at the behest of Mine owners and industries who are tried and sick of giving ransom money to the maoist groups opearing in these areas .And ironically Maoists still collects money from the same mine owner and industries to train and arm its cadre that fight govt's forces .

Its all about fight to retaining control over whatever the stakes of the group involved in this sham conflict . And as usual poor tribals are loosers and victims both way. Nothing much do with Maoist ideology they claim to represent.

You don't see Maoist fight spreading to the cities so far after all theses years of conflict ,it simply because there are no forest or mines in the cities.
 
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Cannot deny that there are a lot of valid points in there. The problem we see here is that the paramilitary forces are by and large recruits from the same region or closeby. These are people who have lived through this horror and are in many cases prejudiced. While the Indian state doesnot condone these actions, the prejudice coupled with horrible working conditions and constant threat (squads of paramilitary forces are regularly attacked by small armies numbering 200-500 Naxalites and massacred) and the mental agony of watching bodies of butchered colleagues coming in will add up to these kind of incidents. I donot condone it but can recognize the frustration that may have led to this kind of action.
What one doesnot see here and what is horrifyingly getting clear is that the Naxalites are using young recruits to not only add numbers but gain mute support of their parents. Additionally one of their major sources of income seems to be pornography made using the women from the tribal areas.
In the end there needs to be a political solution to this, but I dont see one unless the rebels drop arms. ANd the tribals will continue to suffer.


Dear Irfan,

I will break down your reply into points:

1. Violence is the way to deal with Maoists: I do not condone violence but Maoists have to be dealt by paramilitary. Let me tell you why ? The Government has repeatedly asked them to shun violence and come for talks still they persist with violence. As late as last week the Chief Minister of my state asked them to give up guns and come for talks. But they do not. Maoists have built a cotorie of sorts where the top leaders indulge in kidnappings, ransoms to sustain their clout. They recruit young, impressionable kids to carry their objectives. Maoism has lost its purpose. Leave alone Democracy as means to find solutions they do not have any objectives. They fund their campaigns by getting money from mining companies who carry business in their area. They dictate the local tribals , cower them down and carry on senseless killings. Maoists are anti -development
2. The Indian paramilatry force are ill equipped in terms of training and mental conditioning. That is why innocent tribals fall victims. Just a couple of weeks ago some Jawans of the paramilatry went on strike because of their working conditions in the jungles. The postings are regarded as punsihments. Blame the Indian adminstratrs for these
3. The state politicians are just being themselves - politicians. They not only play with the emotions of the tribals but also the paramiltary forces. My chief minister never gave a clear cut order on hunting down Maosits. As a result the paramilitaries get frustated. Compare this with 1971 when Naxalism was nipped in the bud by anohter Chief minister in a couple of months. Also The late Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister created Grey Hound force that wiped out Maoism from North Andra Pradesh. Fighting Maoism needs political will. Unfortunately that is absent now
4. The plight of the tribals - You know we have reservations for tribals. The tribes are called Scheduled tribes because constituion guarantees them reservation in Governent jobs. This has actually benefitted a lot of tribals by uplifting their economic conditions. On the ground level if Maosits allow development schemes to flourish in tribal areas then it can benefit people. Also setting up steel plants, manufacturing industries can benefit tribals too,
5. Preservation of local culiture - I am not sure but in the Forest Act of our constituin the right to live in forests, ownership of lands is guranateed for tribals. Please google Niyamgiri Hills. It is because of world wide protests and protect the tribals of Orissa a multinational behemoth owned by a billionaire was stopped.
But Irfan, you known the theory of survival of the fittest.
Globalisation will inevitably lead to the extinction of tribal culture. They will assimilate into the mainstram and lose their culture. And this is not just with tribals. India has hundreds of thousands of customs, culture and languages. You think all will survive. Economics will dominate over evrything. I even think that someday my mother langugae Bengali will be lost.!!!Globalisation is a reality. No law will be sufficient to stop its onslaught on local customs amd traditions

Dear both

These got to be the star posts of the month. This is the kind of material that brought me into this forum about 2 years ago.
You pretty much answered my following questions, re funding and functioning.

I agree so much that with the passage of time, our identities will be lost in time and its inevitable like it has happened to so many much bigger civilisations. The evolution of our languages, our living and our culture are constantly changing. Having said that a more amicable solution would be far more desirable. Being different is no crime, its like our fingers that are part of a hand that have their individuality but they add to the force.

I hear you and I respect your reasons for the use of violent force against the Naxalites. like yourself I also don’t condone the violence but I also bow my head to the stark reality of ends justify the means.

You both are very articulate and have put your point across very well and in a best possible manner. I also asked my self that why I was praying for the safety of an FC convey that was leaving for Loralai in Balochistan when the news of 5 labourers killed at the hands of the Baloch Nationalists was very fresh. The irony was that these labourers used to work in an outlawed/ dangerous coal mine that had been ordered to close by the provincial government but Jamal Marri a local chieftain (with sympathies to the Baloch insurgents) had it opened and had ordered his faithful followers to work there despite the danger. These poor chaps were visiting the city and happened to be at a place frequented by floating labour and miners and was stuck by the BLA in the name of the provincial autonomy.

One of the leaders of this insurgents, Nawab Akber Bugti himself had been governor of the province and had his party leaders in the government for decades but that still didn’t warm him in anyway to the state and despite him being part of the government he still chose to blame state for the plight of his people. Hence like Naxalites BLA decided that the rights of Bughtis and Marris were best served by blowing up infrastructures and killing teachers and traders. In our case we have decided that the way to win peace in Baluchistan is through development and protecting the people from the reprisals of the terrorists who don’t want to support their cause. Our current engagement in war on terror is hampering our efforts and the American anxiety over potential benefit to China (and possibility Russia) due to a cheaper and effective corridor to the Indian ocean is not helping either and is no conspiracy theory, greater Balochistan forms the part of the American NeoCon doctrine for this part of the world.

India doesn’t have our problems, and this area doesn’t border with another country to worry about any foreign help, I think if India is successful in improving the quality of life of these people instead of burning their homes and fields then they themselves will loose the appetite for confrontation and descent will change into satisfaction.

Once again thanks to both for presenting the Indian angle.
 
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This Maosi rebellion and the fight aganist it,both are sham ,i would call it scam.

The both central Govt and respective state govts have sent police and paramilitary forces at the behest of Mine owners and industries who are tried and sick of giving ransom money to the maoist groups opearing in these areas .And ironically Maoists still collects money from the same mine owner and industries to train and arm its cadre that fight govt's forces .

Its all about fight to retaining control over whatever the stakes of the group involved in this sham conflict . And as usual poor tribals are loosers and victims both way. Nothing much do with Maoist ideology they claim to represent.

You don't see Maoist fight spreading to the cities so far after all theses years of conflict ,it simply because there are no forest or mines in the cities.

wow, if I apply this to Balochistan and change Maists to BLA then it perfectly applies in the place I lived and grew up.
our OGDC (oil and Gas development cooperation) comany was at one time giving 150 vehicles to the Sub Tribe of Akber Bughti and had "employed" hundreds of his tribesmen who only came to collect their pay.

yet, this company alone has seen its engineers and workers abducted and killed and its property destroryed.
so the FC is damned if it takes action against the sons of Balochistan and damned if it doesnt save the other sons of Balochsitan from the earlier sons of Balochsitan.
 
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the Adivasis are forest and jungle dwellers who are the indigenous population of India they've been there for thousands of years they practically live in the stone age with no kind of modern technology the Indian gov't needs to realize the magic bullet to kill the maoist insurgency is not what OFB manufactures in the thousands but rather a quasi mix of modernization and urbanization is needed
 
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the Adivasis are forest and jungle dwellers who are the indigenous population of India they've been there for thousands of years they practically live in the stone age with no kind of modern technology the Indian gov't needs to realize the magic bullet to kill the maoist insurgency is not what OFB manufactures in the thousands but rather a quasi mix of modernization and urbanization is needed

There itself lies the problem. If GoI tries to bring modernity, the interest groups ranging from Human Rights Organizations to Socialists to Maoists will cry hoarse accusing the Govt of altering the lifestyle of the Tribals and imposing them on things that according to some draw parallels with British imposing their rule on Indians.But If GoI take the decision of leaving them alone as they have done for more than 50 years, the same people will accuse the Govt of neglecting the Tribals. Also allowing the Tribals to remain in perpetual poverty is not good for India as a nation also after all they form 8% of the population.. a huge number.

So GoI is caught in a fix..Damn if they do and Damn if they not

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------

the Adivasis are forest and jungle dwellers who are the indigenous population of India they've been there for thousands of years they practically live in the stone age with no kind of modern technology the Indian gov't needs to realize the magic bullet to kill the maoist insurgency is not what OFB manufactures in the thousands but rather a quasi mix of modernization and urbanization is needed

There itself lies the problem. If GoI tries to bring modernity, the interest groups ranging from Human Rights Organizations to Socialists to Maoists will cry hoarse accusing the Govt of altering the lifestyle of the Tribals and imposing them on things that according to some draw parallels with British imposing their rule on Indians.But If GoI take the decision of leaving them alone as they have done for more than 50 years, the same people will accuse the Govt of neglecting the Tribals. Also allowing the Tribals to remain in perpetual poverty is not good for India as a nation also after all they form 8% of the population.. a huge number.

So GoI is caught in a fix..Damn if they do and Damn if they not
 
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Is there any estimate to how many Maoist/Naxalites are in the country? Considering they control and influence many districts and areas in EH it is likely their numbers are relatively high.

Their numbers are not high,they live in dense thick forests and they control it well.

---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

Who are the "Adivasis"... and how are they different from other Indians?

In the documentary in the OP, they interviewed some Adivasis, and they said that they face a lot of discrimination, and cannot get jobs, and so cannot afford to feed their families. According to the Adivasis who were interviewed, they fight the Indian state, because they will die either way.

thats all propoganda,adivasis are tribals,people living in the jungles without much exposure to the modern world.They do face discrimination as they are different from the rest but they wont die and all.There are many tribals who are very much in the mainstream doing white collar jobs.
 
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The problem is very deep - the indian state is non-existent in many of these areas, the schools - even basic medical facilities are all provided by the Naxals or Maoists. You can trek in these forests for days before you see any sign of the indian state.

Thats a good thing,but the Indian state ll be there soon.
 
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The Naxal threat will continue to grow, their wish to replace the indian state with a Communist "year zero" ideology - has enough resonance in a significant minority of the indian people.

Even to this day, you meet old college professors advocating "Socialism" in many indian universities.

significant? I highly doubt that,those socialist professors have no students in their classes.
 
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Human Rights Activists hanging around New Delhi all year also play an unwitting role ,If modernity is encouraged , they will say it violates basic rights bla bla .

That is why a strong central govt is the need of the hour.

These activists are number one supporter of terrorism as well. Using the liberal brigade, they spread support of terrorists to numb-brained wannabe liberal jokers in our media fraternity. My brother has been an unintended target of it on his brigade (remember the negative reviews that media gave Ghatak unit in early 2000s? NDTV was especially yelping a little too much).

Though CCP is a tyrant, one thing I admire about them is that they don't allow these western stooges to meddle in their internal affairs. We also need to limit the powers of these so-called rights bodies in national security and development matters.
 
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Does the tribals form a vote bank. By the look of it it seems many of them don't even have a ration card.

Tribal "leader" politicos do. These so called representatives are nothing but abusers of their representative status and become the votebank of lecherous lot like UPA. Result? Tribals remain in medieval era, these "representative" cr@p enjoy money of scum like UPA/BSP types and the parties get the vote of these "representatives".
 
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The Naxal threat will continue to grow, their wish to replace the indian state with a Communist "year zero" ideology - has enough resonance in a significant minority of the indian people.

How much? By what ratio? By what numbers? How many people per square km of the 2001 statistical data you people keep harping?

Do you even know what you're talking about? Most of my fellow Indians are ignorant about this because they live in western, southern and northern India.. And you sitting in Pakistan, know about a region barely 300 Kms away from my place which I am a frequent visitor of (sanctuaries are nearby)?

Even to this day, you meet old college professors advocating "Socialism" in many indian universities.

JNU jholawalas? There are many idiots who prescribe a ton of things in this country. There are many righteous people who prescribe genuine solutions for our problems. Who listens? Who cares? This is the flip side of having a humungous population; no one gives a damn about a bunch of medieval ragtag self-hating jokers like Maoists.

As for socialism, our economy is semi-socialist even today. If it was 100% corporatist, our structure would be similar to US corporates.
 
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Did I say - Bad Roads or, Load Shedding or, Lack of opportunity ..?

I am talking about the hundreds of villages where No and i mean NO F*CK**G road has reached yet..Only way to get there is by travelling on foot for 5-10 Kms. Many of them die without seeing a light bulb.

And I am not just talking. I have been to those areas and have seen these conditions...



I am not someone who will "kid" on such serious topics...If you are a foot soldier ( that does not mean you have to fight. They have got a separate squad for that and their remuneration is higher ) then you are paid anywhere between 3000-9000. If you are area commander then your salary starts from 12000 ... And I am not lying.



I am not mistaken of Ground Realities because I am from those areas.. I come from a district in Bihar which is considered as one of the most Naxalised in the state. You read the names of those places because those things attract media. Have you ever read of Tribal people getting killed ..? You dont because this kind of news do not sell .

On the other hand talk to someone who is from those areas and you will get the real picture..I do not support any violent means on the parts of Maoists but certainly do not appreciate the kind of neglect those areas have got from Indian Government... India is just not in the Tall Glass houses and Walled societies... It is much bigger than that and the Big Part is screaming for attention....

An when Govt is trying to make roads in those areas, then why these Tribal friendly Maoists stopping them?

Why blowing up of bridges/ small dams/ Post offices/ Schools/ Transformers/ Railway tracks etc etc?

these Maoists are blood suckers. Only know one thing...... exploit innocent villagers/ tribals for there "do Waqt ki Tanduri chicken".

Hafta wasuli is there main KIA. baki sab bhad me jaye......
 
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If anything is needed then it is this war to intensify.

These "moists" have screwed up our beautiful eastern India. Without peace, this region is having no investments, no jobs, limited education and no infrastructure other than military and government.

Fcuking Maoists and their patrons should be shot dead.
 
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