THE "MOON"...Ah, the moon!!!

[GumNaam]

It only take three days to travel to moon ..In future lunar tourism can become a major source of income ..With improvement in spacecraft in future who knows we can reach there without much delay ..

that is some serious apathy...why would one even BOTHER, a grayish, desolate satellite verses the beauty of planet earth at a FRACTION of the cost!!!

 

[Crusher]

Gangus moon mission advances "nothing" in astrophysics and bring nothing new to the field of astrophysics. However making soft landing on the moon and publicizing it to its maximum extent is just an issue of "ego" for stinky gangus, and I am saying it as a physicist who has a very good understanding of the state of the art in the field of astrophysics so not a layman's view. For me as a physicist, this whole indian mission on soft landing on moon is a political statement rather than any kind of "scientific novelty" or even something to be worth "discussing" for more than a couple of minutes in a gathering of top astrophysicists.

 

[kinsr]

your entire brouhaha fails to answer one SIMPLE INNOCENT QUESTION...how does going to the moon or other planets benefit mankind AT ALL?! All the things that CAN be learned can ALSO be learned by SIMPLY doing research on THIS planet!!! PRIORITIES BUDDY! with the limited resources at our disposal, do you NOT think that curing diseases & increasing food production should be our priority instead of discovering "new metals" on other planets??? Not like we don't have those metals HERE! its just a ridiculous argument that you are making in vain to justify waste of not a few thousand but billions that could have otherwise been invested in MUCH more productive endeavors that would've produced results FAR sooner than going to the friggin' MOON or MARS or where the hell ever!

Read properly what I am trying to say... It provides employment to millions here on earth.

How does Arts or Literature helps the humanity? What benefit does praying 5 times a day has on all of humanity? How does it heal the suffering of human being infected with cancer. Can it provide eyes to a blind? No. Yet we keep doing it.

As the population of earth grows, the resources will keep shrinking. I gave an example of lithium as it's a rare metal and its productions is largely controlled by China. How do you expect India to have that same lithium which at the moment is an essential commodity for batteries , which will be used in future to power almost every vehicle. It's all about staking claim to a resource. India can't be left behind this time.

The Chandryaan mission is largely for the same reason to build up a technology base to mine for these element in future. First it was merely a orbiter and a probe, the second was a orbiter with a lander and a Rover. And probably the next one would have been the manned mission to moon.

In future, India will be a major claimant if any grouping of space fairing nations is formed and they decide to mine the moon.

 

[Crusher]

Now this is the state of the art for robotic space probes, American robotic space mission that was first sent in "1977" the so-called voyager mission has finally left the "solar system" after probing jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune and few years ago has finally entered in the "inter-stellar" space between sun and its nearest neighboring stars and the voyager is still sending the radio signals (messages) back to the NASA headquarter even when it is now 11.7 billion miles away from earth, good luck to Voyager on its new inter-stellar space journey, happy traveling voyager, that is how we scientists treat and greet our devices/probes etc. .

 

[kinsr]

Gangus moon mission advances "nothing" in astrophysics and bring nothing new to the field of astrophysics. However making soft landing on the moon and publicizing it to its maximum extent is just an issue of "ego" for stinky gangus, and I am saying it as a physicist who has a very good understanding of the state of the art in the field of astrophysics so not a layman's view. For me as a physicist, this whole indian mission on soft landing on moon is a political statement rather than any kind of "scientific novelty" or even something to be worth "discussing" for more than a couple of minutes in a gathering of top astrophysicists.

Then you missed out on ISRO finding abundant water on the lunar surface found out by Chandrayaan1. Later on corroborated by NASA too.

Do try to google first before typing...

 

[GumNaam]

Read properly what I am trying to say... It provides employment to millions here on earth.

How does Arts or Literature helps the humanity? What benefit does praying 5 times a day has on all of humanity? How does it heal the suffering of human being infected with cancer. Can it provide eyes to a blind? No. Yet we keep doing it.

As the population of earth grows, the resources will keep shrinking. I gave an example of lithium as it's a rare metal and its productions is largely controlled by China. How do you expect India to have that same lithium which at the moment is an essential commodity for batteries , which will be used in future to power almost every vehicle. It's all about staking claim to a resource. India can't be left behind this time.

The Chandryaan mission is largely for the same reason to build up a technology base to mine for these element in future. First it was merely a orbiter and a probe, the second was a orbiter with a lander and a Rover. And probably the next one would have been the manned mission to moon.

In future, India will be a major claimant if any grouping of space fairing nations is formed and they decide to mine the moon.

first off, understand that praying 5 times a day requires ZERO INVESTMENT, NO MONEY! secondly, it provides that inner, spiritual healing & enrichment that guides a person to a path of being empathetic AND sympathetic towards other human beings PROVIDED he does not consider him/herself as a superior caste to others where everyone else is a human like demon! do you REALLY wanna go down that path with me? humanities, literature, PRAYING, FASTING, all of the above DO NOT REQUIRE MUCH MONETARY contributions to accomplish IF any. if going to the moon as cheap as going for a stroll in the park then I SAY EAT YOUR HEART OUT, GO TO THE MOON AND DIVE IN HEAD FIRST INTO THE LUNAR DUST, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT & HAVE A BALL WHILE AT IT. but the PROBLEM is that it is NOT as simple going for a stroll in the park, it is NOT as simple praying...it costs BILLIONS! THAT is the defining factor, THAT is the distinguishing line buddy! suddenly, when it comes to the BILLIONS required to reach the moon, the as a civilization, we MUST recognize that is is NOT as trivial as literature or praying...it is a SIGNIFICANT amount...then as a civilization, we MUST ask ourselves the question that could these BILLIONS be spent in a BETTER way that would have quicker and far reaching results? The answer is YES, we MUST ask that question...anything else is an insult to simple common sense!

Then you missed out on ISRO finding abundant water on the lunar surface found out by Chandrayaan1. Later on corroborated by NASA too.

Do try to google first before typing...

THERE IS SO MUCH WATER HERE...ON EARTH!!! WHERE WE WERE BORN!!! and guess what...here are COMMETS and ASTROIDS all over the solar system that carry WATER, that's how EARTH got it in the first place...and we got PLENTY OF IT, nature has PURIFIED it from other gaseous pollutions...why the bleepin' HELL would you leave THIS water only to go a ruin the water on the moon that may not be up to the standards of human consumption to begin with???

oh lemme guess, we can spend a few billion MORE on making that water palpable to humans right? yyyyyeah, we have nothing better to with those billions....such sheer ignorance!

btw, STILL waiting to hear how EXACTLY has moon travel 50 years ago to date directly benefited mankind (or ANY kind for that matter)!

 

[LeGenD]

Hahahahaha

Dear @GumNaam sahib on fire in this thread, spanking others left, right and center....

 

[GumNaam]

Hahahahaha

Dear @GumNaam sahib on fire in this thread, spanking left, right and center....

I'm just appalled at the sheer lack of common sense...

 

[BringHarmony]

ok, so let's discuss the downstream cascading effects of this. america went to the moon over 50 years ago and then some. WHAT EXACTLY WERE THE CASCADING DOWNSTREAM BENEFITS FOR AMERICA??? please list 'em...both you and I live here and we don't see ANY benefits be it visible or not...

Quite a few things!

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/benefits.html

1978: Teflon-coated fiberglass developed in the 1970s as a new fabric for astronaut spacesuits has been used as a permanent roofing material for buildings and stadiums worldwide. (By the way, contrary to urban myth, NASA did not invent Teflon.)

1982: Astronauts working on the lunar surface wore liquid-cooled garments under their space suits to protect them from temperatures approaching 250 degrees Fahrenheit. These garments, further developed and refined by NASA’s Johnson Space Center, are among the agency’s most widely used spinoffs, with adaptations for portable cooling systems for treatment of medical ailments such as burning limb syndrome, multiple sclerosis, spinal injuries and sports injuries.

1986: A joint National Bureau of Standards/NASA project directed at the Johnson Space Center resulted in a lightweight breathing system for firefighters. Now widely used in breathing apparatuses, the NASA technology is credited with significant reductions in inhalation injuries to the people who protect us.

1991: Tapping three separate NASA-developed technologies in the design and testing of its school bus chassis, a Chicago-based company was able to create a safer, more reliable, advanced chassis, which now has a large market share for this form of transportation.

1994: Relying on technologies created for servicing spacecraft, a Santa Barbara-based company developed a mechanical arm that allows surgeons to operate three instruments simultaneously, while performing laparoscopic surgery. In 2001, the first complete robotic surgical operation proved successful, when a team of doctors in New York removed the gallbladder of a woman in France using the Computer Motion equipment.

1995: Dr. Michael DeBakey of the Baylor College of Medicine teamed up with Johnson Space Center engineer David Saucier to develop an artificial heart pump – based on the design of NASA’s space shuttle main engine fuel pumps – that supplements the heart’s pumping capacity in the left ventricle. Later, a team at Ames Research Center modeled the blood flow, and improved the design to avoid harm to blood cells. The DeBakey Left Ventricular Assist Device (LVAD) can maintain the heart in a stable condition in patients requiring a transplant until a donor is found, which can range from one month to a year. Sometimes, permanent implantation of the LVAD can negate the need for a transplant. Bernard Rosenbaum, a Johnson Space Center propulsion engineer who worked with the DeBakey-Saucier group said, “I came to NASA in the early 1960s as we worked to land men on the moon, and I never dreamed I would also become part of an effort that could help people’s lives. We were energized and excited to do whatever it took to make it work.”

you have $1 million. you have two problems in front of you:
1. curing cancer with 50/50 chances of success
2. going to the moon with 50/50 chances of success

Errr... This is not how things usually are...

When moon mission was thought about, there were already existing Missiles which could travel to moon. So science was all in place. Technology was partially done. Remaining part of technology was needed.

Now coming to curing cancer. EVEN TODAY! we don't have enough science for cancer. YES! EVEN TODAY! That means we are FAR from curing cancer. We cann't develop technology be cause we don't know what is going on in cancer. Plus Cancer is not ONE disease. It is a group of 100 diseases. And we don't know enough about even one of them.

So to put it in perspective, you have

70% chance of reaching moon in 1960

less than 1% chance of "curing cancer" (I don't know what it even means) in 1990, let along 1960.

 

[GumNaam]

Quite a few things!

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/benefits.html

1978: Teflon-coated fiberglass developed in the 1970s as a new fabric for astronaut spacesuits has been used as a permanent roofing material for buildings and stadiums worldwide. (By the way, contrary to urban myth, NASA did not invent Teflon.)

1982: Astronauts working on the lunar surface wore liquid-cooled garments under their space suits to protect them from temperatures approaching 250 degrees Fahrenheit. These garments, further developed and refined by NASA’s Johnson Space Center, are among the agency’s most widely used spinoffs, with adaptations for portable cooling systems for treatment of medical ailments such as burning limb syndrome, multiple sclerosis, spinal injuries and sports injuries.

1986: A joint National Bureau of Standards/NASA project directed at the Johnson Space Center resulted in a lightweight breathing system for firefighters. Now widely used in breathing apparatuses, the NASA technology is credited with significant reductions in inhalation injuries to the people who protect us.

1991: Tapping three separate NASA-developed technologies in the design and testing of its school bus chassis, a Chicago-based company was able to create a safer, more reliable, advanced chassis, which now has a large market share for this form of transportation.

1994: Relying on technologies created for servicing spacecraft, a Santa Barbara-based company developed a mechanical arm that allows surgeons to operate three instruments simultaneously, while performing laparoscopic surgery. In 2001, the first complete robotic surgical operation proved successful, when a team of doctors in New York removed the gallbladder of a woman in France using the Computer Motion equipment.

1995: Dr. Michael DeBakey of the Baylor College of Medicine teamed up with Johnson Space Center engineer David Saucier to develop an artificial heart pump – based on the design of NASA’s space shuttle main engine fuel pumps – that supplements the heart’s pumping capacity in the left ventricle. Later, a team at Ames Research Center modeled the blood flow, and improved the design to avoid harm to blood cells. The DeBakey Left Ventricular Assist Device (LVAD) can maintain the heart in a stable condition in patients requiring a transplant until a donor is found, which can range from one month to a year. Sometimes, permanent implantation of the LVAD can negate the need for a transplant. Bernard Rosenbaum, a Johnson Space Center propulsion engineer who worked with the DeBakey-Saucier group said, “I came to NASA in the early 1960s as we worked to land men on the moon, and I never dreamed I would also become part of an effort that could help people’s lives. We were energized and excited to do whatever it took to make it work.”

You mean to tell me that these inventions could not have been invented HERE on earth at the FRACTION of the cost without going to the moon? I assure you that (for example) lighter breathing apparatus for fire fighters would've EASILY been achieved had the need for making the jobs & lives of fire fighters easier been given importance and that too, would've been at the fraction of the cost. In plain English, if the governments had put out tenders that they'll fund a $30 million contract goes to the company that can come up with the lightest, most durable & effective breathing system for fire fighters, tech companies would've produced the same results for a fraction of the cost, leaving the rest of the amount for other projects that would improve or save lives. But instead, they chose to fund a $30 billion contract to go to the moon to weaponize it against the soviet union and FAILED while still getting the light weight breathing apparatus for $30 million. Well la di da, most of that $30 billion STILL went to waste, why? Cuz spending those billions and decades worth of time, you realized that it is just not worth the cost. Only having a few fringe benefits that tricked down (like teflon or lightweight breathing apparatus) out of a multi billion dollar FAILURE can HARDLY be touted as an achievement since those same fringe benefits could have been achieved WITHOUT wasting those billions...and how much in public debt did it create that you, I & our children have to pay off with our hard earned incomes that we otherwise would NOT have had to pay off? Abandoned projects that were financed though public government borrowing still have to be paid for WITH INTEREST...yeah, let that sink in, you and I are STILL paying for projects that are DEAD!

 

[BringHarmony]

oh is thaaaaat riiiiight...what oh WHAT knowledge about the moon were you planning on discovering that you could NOT have discovered by friggin' GOOGLING it! and what good what that "knowledge" would've brought to humanity? FOR EXAMPLE, suppose the last dying message that chanrayadayada 2 had sent was that THE MOON HAS NO OXYGEN! yeah no sh!t sherlock, don't try living there!

If this thing would have worked, they would have confirmed presence of water on the souther poles of moon. This could have been a MAJOR piece of information for colonization of moon in future. Why? for a colony if it can extract water on moon, it will be a major space saver while launching it or its pieces from earth. When? we don't know 50 years? 100 years? 200 years? don't know!
But then, if Copernicus and Galileo would have thought like you were thinking, we would have been living thinking earth to be centre of the universe and sun going round the earth. Meaning, say good bye to satellites, say goodbye to sat-TV, say goodbye to long range weather prediction, say goodbye to discovering oil resources in sea, say goodbye to monitoring forest fires.

 

[GumNaam]

Quite a few things!

https://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/benefits.html

1978: Teflon-coated fiberglass developed in the 1970s as a new fabric for astronaut spacesuits has been used as a permanent roofing material for buildings and stadiums worldwide. (By the way, contrary to urban myth, NASA did not invent Teflon.)

1982: Astronauts working on the lunar surface wore liquid-cooled garments under their space suits to protect them from temperatures approaching 250 degrees Fahrenheit. These garments, further developed and refined by NASA’s Johnson Space Center, are among the agency’s most widely used spinoffs, with adaptations for portable cooling systems for treatment of medical ailments such as burning limb syndrome, multiple sclerosis, spinal injuries and sports injuries.

1986: A joint National Bureau of Standards/NASA project directed at the Johnson Space Center resulted in a lightweight breathing system for firefighters. Now widely used in breathing apparatuses, the NASA technology is credited with significant reductions in inhalation injuries to the people who protect us.

1991: Tapping three separate NASA-developed technologies in the design and testing of its school bus chassis, a Chicago-based company was able to create a safer, more reliable, advanced chassis, which now has a large market share for this form of transportation.

1994: Relying on technologies created for servicing spacecraft, a Santa Barbara-based company developed a mechanical arm that allows surgeons to operate three instruments simultaneously, while performing laparoscopic surgery. In 2001, the first complete robotic surgical operation proved successful, when a team of doctors in New York removed the gallbladder of a woman in France using the Computer Motion equipment.

1995: Dr. Michael DeBakey of the Baylor College of Medicine teamed up with Johnson Space Center engineer David Saucier to develop an artificial heart pump – based on the design of NASA’s space shuttle main engine fuel pumps – that supplements the heart’s pumping capacity in the left ventricle. Later, a team at Ames Research Center modeled the blood flow, and improved the design to avoid harm to blood cells. The DeBakey Left Ventricular Assist Device (LVAD) can maintain the heart in a stable condition in patients requiring a transplant until a donor is found, which can range from one month to a year. Sometimes, permanent implantation of the LVAD can negate the need for a transplant. Bernard Rosenbaum, a Johnson Space Center propulsion engineer who worked with the DeBakey-Saucier group said, “I came to NASA in the early 1960s as we worked to land men on the moon, and I never dreamed I would also become part of an effort that could help people’s lives. We were energized and excited to do whatever it took to make it work.”


Errr... This is not how things usually are...

When moon mission was thought about, there were already existing Missiles which could travel to moon. So science was all in place. Technology was partially done. Remaining part of technology was needed.

Now coming to curing cancer. EVEN TODAY! we don't have enough science for cancer. YES! EVEN TODAY! That means we are FAR from curing cancer. We cann't develop technology be cause we don't know what is going on in cancer. Plus Cancer is not ONE disease. It is a group of 100 diseases. And we don't know enough about even one of them.

So to put it in perspective, you have

70% chance of reaching moon in 1960

less than 1% chance of "curing cancer" (I don't know what it even means) in 1990, let along 1960.

dude, you've contradicted your own claims...if cancer had killed FAR more people than "communism" has than don't you think that more funds should've been diverted to curing that disease? I mean...we know more about the moon that cancer and yet, it is CANCER that poses the immediate danger to us, NOT the friggin moon out communism that, let's face it, is the main reason we wanted to go to the moon in the FIRST place...just a race driven by hate! Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[BringHarmony]

You mean to tell me that these inventions could not have been invented HERE on earth at the FRACTION of the cost without going to the moon? I assure you that (for example) lighter breathing apparatus for fire fighters would've EASILY been achieved had the need for making the jobs & lives of fire fighters easier been given importance and that too, would've been at the fraction of the cost. In plain English, if the governments had put out tenders that they'll fund a $30 million contract goes to the company that can come up with the lightest, most durable & effective breathing system for fire fighters, tech companies would've produced the same results for a fraction of the cost, leaving the rest of the amount for other projects that would improve or save lives. But instead, they chose to fund a $30 billion contract to go to the moon to weaponize it against the soviet union and FAILED while still getting the light weight breathing apparatus for $30 million. Well la di da, most of that $30 billion STILL went to waste, why? Cuz spending those billions and decades worth of time, you realized that it is just not worth the cost. Only having a few fringe benefits that tricked down (like teflon or lightweight breathing apparatus) out of a multi billion dollar FAILURE can HARDLY be touted as an achievement since those same fringe benefits could have been achieved WITHOUT wasting those billions...and how much in public debt did it create that you, I & our children have to pay off with our hard earned incomes that we otherwise would NOT have had to pay off? Abandoned projects that were financed though public government borrowing still have to be paid for WITH INTEREST...yeah, let that sink in, you and I are STILL paying for projects that are DEAD!

Most likely, NEVER.

Why? Because no one would have required it! Or no one would have money to spend on it.

Think about it. You need to spend 1 billion in 1970 to develop a lighter fire-fighting equipment. Fire departments don't have the budget. No one gives a damn about them elsewhere. No one is going to develop technology costing this much for them. Now, another VERY COMPLEX expensive project happens. It solves similar problem in a very different domain. They publish papers. Someone in fire department or a related company reads it, approaches NASA and in 5-7 years you have that equipment.

Science and technology is a LOT by chance and builds upon what exists. Crosspolination is how new inventions happen.

 

[kinsr]

first off, understand that praying 5 times a day requires ZERO INVESTMENT, NO MONEY! secondly, it provides that inner, spiritual healing & enrichment that guides a person to a path of being empathetic AND sympathetic towards other human beings PROVIDED he does not consider him/herself as a superior caste to others where everyone else is a human like demon! do you REALLY wanna go down that path with me? humanities, literature, PRAYING, FASTING, all of the above DO NOT REQUIRE MUCH MONETARY contributions to accomplish IF any. if going to the moon as cheap as going for a stroll in the park then I SAY EAT YOUR HEART OUT, GO TO THE MOON AND DIVE IN HEAD FIRST INTO THE LUNAR DUST, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT & HAVE A BALL WHILE AT IT. but the PROBLEM is that it is NOT as simple going for a stroll in the park, it is NOT as simple praying...it costs BILLIONS! THAT is the defining factor, THAT is the distinguishing line buddy! suddenly, when it comes to the BILLIONS required to reach the moon, the as a civilization, we MUST recognize that is is NOT as trivial as literature or praying...it is a SIGNIFICANT amount...then as a civilization, we MUST ask ourselves the question that could these BILLIONS be spent in a BETTER way that would have quicker and far reaching results? The answer is YES, we MUST ask that question...anything else is an insult to simple common sense!


THERE IS SO MUCH WATER HERE...ON EARTH!!! WHERE WE WERE BORN!!! and guess what...here are COMMETS and ASTROIDS all over the solar system that carry WATER, that's how EARTH got it in the first place...and we got PLENTY OF IT, nature has PURIFIED it from other gaseous pollutions...why the bleepin' HELL would you leave THIS water only to go a ruin the water on the moon that may not be up to the standards of human consumption to begin with???

oh lemme guess, we can spend a few billion MORE on making that water palpable to humans right? yyyyyeah, we have nothing better to with those billions....such sheer ignorance!

btw, STILL waiting to hear how EXACTLY has moon travel 50 years ago to date directly benefited mankind (or ANY kind for that matter)!

Now I know the misery of Pakistan, when they have great thinkers like you. Let aside lack of innovation, you are rather resisting it. You seem to be wanting to remain in this same rut that you were born into.

The whole question according to you why waste billions of dollars in some research? Specially of space and more so of moon. Probably you don't understand the word research at all. It's probing something to its limits. It may yield results or it may not. But we will keep looking for avenues where we can work for the betterment of our people. Moon is just another avenue which may yield much larger fruits as and when the technology matures and industrialises. A place full of thorium, with Indian claims on it ,for future needs when we exhaust the total reserves on earth. We may need to colonise moon too in future, then that water will be needed.

For that future we need to invest today. $141 millions is peanuts for a $3T economy. Failure are part of every endeavor , we accept it .. learn from it and improve next time. With a target in mind that IF and. WHRN the time comes for humans on moon India won't be left behind.

And whatever problems are left behind here on earth, we will leave it to Smart Pakistanis like yourself. Leta see if you can solve any one with the kind of budget that you talk about.

First even attempt to solve a problem.in your country before trying to diss someone who's working hard.

Leta see if you can eradicate polio from Pakistan first. Hell I'm not even asking you to invent any medicine or cure for it.

 

[GumNaam]

If this thing would have worked, they would have confirmed presence of water on the souther poles of moon. This could have been a MAJOR piece of information for colonization of moon in future. Why? for a colony if it can extract water on moon, it will be a major space saver while launching it or its pieces from earth. When? we don't know 50 years? 100 years? 200 years? don't know!
But then, if Copernicus and Galileo would have thought like you were thinking, we would have been living thinking earth to be centre of the universe and sun going round the earth. Meaning, say good bye to satellites, say goodbye to sat-TV, say goodbye to long range weather prediction, say goodbye to discovering oil resources in sea, say goodbye to monitoring forest fires.

Yeah, so...STOP right they're and think about what you just said...colonizing the moon....hmm, why not spend a fraction of the cost to maybe, I dunno, make EARTH a better place to live? It has its ups & downs but all in all, it's a pretty comfortable planet to live on, almost everything we need is already here, water, air, nutrients thi grow crops, you name it...and ALL that we have to do is NOT RUIN IT! won't cost NEARLY as much as colonizing another celestial body would...PROMISE, try it out.