THE "MOON"...Ah, the moon!!!

[KhanBaba2]

Wheel is not the problem. HOW you make the wheel isb the problem...would you rather the wheel be made the cheapest & most effective way in the shortest possible amount of time or the most expensive, long & drawn out way.

Wheel is not the problem. HOW you make the wheel isb the problem...would you rather the wheel be made the cheapest & most effective way in the shortest possible amount of time or the most expensive, long & drawn out way.

You first make a wheel. Competition and volumes will bring down the cost.

This thread is about making a wheel or not making a wheel. Not about making cost effective wheels.

 

[BringHarmony]

But why not let the need to fix these problems drive our innovation?

Sure, we (as in combined humanity) should! That said we should not ONLY focus on these or all other purely pragmatic problems. A small fraction (say 10%) of all our combined resources should also be focused on purely pushing the boundry of our knowledge and capabilities. That way we will find new understanding of nature and new ways to do things which we might never know.

Also these problems you mentioned are not the ones that require innovation, as much as they require better management of resources and better regulations/enforcement of regulations.

I think India's space program, together with her other fundamental research, is well within that pragmatic 10% or small fraction -- which is why I think they are doing great on that front and should continue to do the same.

 

[GumNaam]

Sure, we (as in combined humanity) should! That said we should not ONLY focus on these or all other purely pragmatic problems. A small fraction (say 10%) of all our combined resources should also be focused on purely pushing the boundry of our knowledge and capabilities. That way we will find new understanding of nature and new ways to do things which we might never know.

Also these problems you mentioned are not the ones that require innovation, as much as they require better management of resources and better regulations/enforcement of regulations.

I think India's space program, together with her other fundamental research, is well within that pragmatic 10% or small fraction -- which is why I think they are doing great on that front and should continue to do the same.

No, okay, you are continuously missing my point so I'll put it way...what does the moon or mars have to offer that we so desperately need? And interplanetary exploration is not a mere 10% of anyone's budget, it is far more. As I said...we are still paying for the moon landing that occurred 50 years ago while getting their got us NOTHING to help mankind that we could NOT have gotten at the fraction of the cost...

and mind you, there are plenty of sensible indians who are congratulating india for the failed moon mission while the country can't even afford to properly give dry bread with salt to children in their schools...no pun intended but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where those funds should've been redirected.

 

[BringHarmony]

No, okay, you are continuously missing my point so I'll put it way...what does the moon or mars have to offer that we so desperately need? And interplanetary exploration is not a mere 10% of anyone's budget, it is far more. As I said...we are still paying for the moon landing that occurred 50 years ago while getting their got us NOTHING to help mankind that we could NOT have gotten at the fraction of the cost...

Well lets see. The country in question here, india. They have a government budget of 200+ billion dollar. They have a space spending budget of 1-2 billion last I heard from Indians on this forum. Thats 1%.

PS : Can any Indians confirm the figures? I remember these numbers from threads on this forum.

what does the moon or mars have to offer that we so desperately need?

One word. Knowledge. One more word: Science. Yet one more word : Technology.

 

[GumNaam]

Well lets see. The country in question here, india. They have a government budget of 200+ billion dollar. They have a space spending budget of 1-2 billion last I heard from Indians on this forum. Thats 1%.

PS : Can any Indians confirm the figures? I remember these numbers from threads on this forum.

Please read above...with a budget of $200 billion and a struggling population of 1.3 billion whose children can't even afford dry bread & salt for lunch and with collapsing economy, the moon landing should've been the last thing on their list of priorities...

Well lets see. The country in question here, india. They have a government budget of 200+ billion dollar. They have a space spending budget of 1-2 billion last I heard from Indians on this forum. Thats 1%.

PS : Can any Indians confirm the figures? I remember these numbers from threads on this forum.


One word. Knowledge. One more word: Science. Yet one more word : Technology.

The knowledge & the science would've still been their 50 years from today. priorities matter dude..

 

[BringHarmony]

Please read above...with a budget of $200 billion and a struggling population of 1.3 billion whose children can't even afford dry bread & salt for lunch and with collapsing economy, the moon landing should've been the last thing on their list of priorities...

May I ask, out of 200+ billion dollar budget, what does 1-2 billion additional spending on welfare (or what ever you want to do) can do that remaining 199 billions cannot? Per person that will not be even 5 dollars. If Indians are dying on hunger, then getting one or two more meals in a year will save them?
Doubt it.

It is the quintessential planting fruit bearing tree for future generations.

 

[GumNaam]

May I ask, out of 200+ billion dollar budget, what does 1-2 billion additional spending on welfare or what ever you want to do can do that remaining 199 billions cannot? Per person that will not be even 5 dollars. If Indians are dying on hunger, then getting one or two more meals in a year will save them?
Doubt it.

It is the quintessential planting fruit bearing tree for future generations.

I'll let the indians criticizing the moon landing answer that for you...they understand the Bruins realities their far better than you or I. Allow me to introduce mister @AfrazulMandal

 

[BringHarmony]

I'll let the indians criticizing the moon landing answer that for you...they understand the Bruins realities their far better than you or I. Allow me to introduce mister @AfrazulMandal

I am seeing WAY WAY WAY more indians on twitter and rest of social media and even here that they are supporting this moonshot program. I doubt majority is against indian-NASA or her moonshot.

Unless this person you are referring to has some special insight, or has some special understanding of the situation, he is in minority.

The knowledge & the science would've still been their 50 years from today. priorities matter dude..

Correct. But most likely without those that 50 years from now, will never come. Because you will never have enough resource to go on to fundamental research and hence never have enough knowledge to acquire enough resources to meet the growing demands.
Meanwhile, if indians do not realise the real causes of their misery, it will never go. And I think we all can agree that it is way way way off than spending 1% on space.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Space is a useless endeavor. It will never bring any benefit.

We are guests in the universe. We should just live within our means and leave what's beyond to Allah SWT.

 

[BringHarmony]

Space is a useless endeavor. It will never bring any benefit.

We are guests in the universe. We should just live within our means and leave what's beyond to Allah SWT.

@GumNaam Is this @AfrazulMandal one of those "few sane Indians"?

 

[GumNaam]

@GumNaam Is this @AfrazulMandal one of those "few sane Indians"?

What's wrong with what he said? Is this planet not comfortable & accommodating enough for you that you're willing to leave it and take your chances on planets where there is no oxygen and unless you spend trillions in oxygenating it you'll have to live your entire lives in a suite? Oxygen & water is free here on this planet buddy...let's do some scientific research on keeping it clean instead of polluting it. Let that sink in for a minute...

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Space is a useless endeavor. It will never bring any benefit.

We are guests in the universe. We should just live within our means and leave what's beyond to Allah SWT.

What does Islam say about space?

 

[GumNaam]

What does Islam say about space?

It definitely does not say that the universe exists in hanuman's mouth. The rest you can look up yourself...

 

[VCheng]

I do not agree with that.

The money spent on air bags and seat belts is to ensure SAFETY bcuz u cannot live on the hope that u would never get in a car accident. Could that money have been saved? Technically yes but if u do the risk assessment...that expenditure is worth it.
If however I go out and buy a Bugatti...could the money from that expenditure be saved and put to better use to take care of my family's NEEDS...yes...bcuz if I do the risk assessment on that...it is practically inconsequential.

That above analogy holds true when it comes to Pak's expenditures on nukes vs expenditures(theoretical) on a space program.

As for u saying whether or not Pak's nukes have helped with Pak's security...have u seen another 1971 type of scenario occur since?

Using analogies about individual behavior in making choices simply do not apply to the behavior of nations when determining allocation of resources for pursuing national interests.

Just as Pakistan decided to spend its resources on nuclear weapons instead of on social development, other countries may decide to spend their own resources on space exploration instead of eradicating poverty or other similar goals. Both are equally valid.

To be fair, that's space travel, not moon landing. It is a valid question to ask Wtf does Moon landing do for anyone that is of any worth.

Regardless of the distance traveled, it is the time spent in space that determines the need for such recycling, whether it is around the Earth, to the Moon and back, or further beyond. Who knows the Moon may one day serve as a launching platform for much longer missions deeper into space, since the first step of escaping Earth's gravitational field is already done?

 

[Clutch]

so much hoopla over the failed indian attempts to go to the moon. people view it as some sort of a gigantic achievement that solves all of your problems and opens the gates to rivers of milk & honey. can someone PHULEEZ explain to me what EXACTLY does it get a country that landed on the moon in particular & humanity general??? I mean, like...WHAT? america landed on the moon many times as did russia & China. india is trying and failing but say for the sake of argument, suppose they had succeeded, WHAT EXACTLY WILL IT GET YOU??? moon doesn't have any gold, no gas, no oil. if it could've been effectively miltarized, america, russia & China would've militarized it by now so that's also outta the question. What the bleepin' hell would it get anyone? when the u.s. landed on the moon, did cancer automagically get cured? world hunger eradicated? I mean what the hell did it get ANYONE except a very expense yet USELESS sense of achievement??? I mean, if chandyadaayadaa-2 had landed on the moon, what, toilets would've appeared automagically the next day??? the crashing indian economy would've suddenly turned around & the raping, lynching, farmer suicides, poverty and famine would've just faded away???

is landing on the moon in particular along with deep space exploration in general, is it NOT the most expensive yet WORTHLESS activity you could divert financial resources to when there is SO much to be done on THIS planet???

These are the plans of delusion of Hindutva extremist India on the moon...