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The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

It is a half year report by AVIC Aero-engine company in compliance to Shanghai & Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Financial data aside, the key points that interested us is:-

The company is currently producing WS-15, WS-10 and WZ-9, basically covering the needs of almost all aircraft currently in (PLAAF, PLA Aviation & PLAN Aviation) service.
 

It is a half year report by AVIC Aero-engine company in compliance to Shanghai & Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Financial data aside, the key points that interested us is:-

The company is currently producing WS-15, WS-10 and WZ-9, basically covering the needs of almost all aircraft currently in (PLAAF, PLA Aviation & PLAN Aviation) service.

090959vlhupzgg2hrhood2.jpg
 
How is the information presented in post 593 'not needed'? Determined as 'not needed' by whom or what committee? Can YOU or anyone dispute the information presented?

We have an internet translation of Chinese into English that was essentially gibberish. No fault of anyone. Mr. Fox in post 584 page 39 expressed his difficulty in understanding the technical issues involved via this seriously flawed internet translation.

It took merely 10 min to review every single post in this thread that went back one yr. The bulk of this thread is about the J-20 using a baseless speculative engine by a person looking at distorted images. Most repeated the same line about making a jet engine is difficult but not a single person explained WHY and HOW is it difficult. Interested laymen is bombarded with foreign acronyms with hardly any explanation of what those letters mean and in what context.

For example...Someone mentioned FADEC -- Full Authority Digital Engine Control. Great. If something has 'full authority', does that mean there is 'partial authority'? Has anyone from the Chinese camp made any effort to explain that? Zippo. That is a serious problem on any publicly available forum when it comes to technical issues, that usually, it is rare that someone make efforts to explain things starting from the foundation level and work that thing all the way to final product.

What I presented in post 593, if you already know, leave it alone. The info would be useful to someone else. If you can challenge the info as false, then prove yourself. I gave the interested layman something to stand upon while none of you could.
You are welcome.

Precisely because this is a publicly available forum and that not everyone is proficient in English, I stay away from overly complex technical language and if there are any acronyms, I make efforts to explain not only what the letters stands for but also any ideas behind them. Those who know -- anything about any subject of interests -- owe at least that degree of consideration for the many silent readers and interested laymen out there.

As for the J-20's engine problem...Keywords search for you: 'operational tempo'

https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/parameters/articles/99autumn/castro.htm

China have no choice but to work on the engine until success. There is no turning back. The J-20 is essentially finished with only Propulsion as the limiting factor regarding the planned operational tempo of a J-20 squadron.

I am USAF veteran. F-111 and F-16, so I will speak on the air operations aspect of OPTEMPO.

The J-20 -- based upon best known information -- is supposed to be a long range interceptor. The engine for this platform must have durability as primary consideration.

An intercept at peace time is not the same as an intercept while on a war footing.

For starter, a peace time intercept is usually an identification and escort mission. This will require visual contact with an unknown target, establish communication, and escort the target to a different location. A peace time intercept is normally of a non hostile scenario, or to put it in legal language, innocent until proven guilty.

On the other hand, a war time intercept is always premised that the target is hostile, or to put the scenario as guilty until proven innocent.

In both scenarios, speed is important. We want to meet the target, peace time or war time, as far away from us as possible. So the apparent assumption is that the engine must be capable of Mach so-and-so. That is not true.

A low durability engine have a negative effect on OPTEMPO regardless of how fast it can make the jet go. Accidental incursions by ignorant and/or lost aircrafts are unplanned. Neither are attempts at air defense penetration by hostile air forces. In both scenarios, the low durability engine requires higher degrees of support elements such as extra whole engines, manpower, and assorted parts. If any of these elements are lacking, the interceptor will not be able to fly as much as these unplanned events occurs. An intercept that is closer to home base is better than no intercept at all. This is the reality that every squadron lived with since the beginning of air combat. The worst possibility is that the low durability engine increased the odds of combat losses because the engine may fail in-flight.

A high durability engine have less demands on support elements, the squadron's tactical utility is increased due to geographical deployment flexibility because of the lower demands on logistics, decreased preparation time for any deployment, and increased combat survivability because the pilot will not hesitate to use the engine to its maximum potential. Another benefit is that of deterrence. Since the high durability engine contributes to the higher OPTEMPO per aircraft, the squadron as a whole have a higher deterrent factor in the enemy's calculations.

Air Dominance. The ability of an air force to compel other air forces to rearray themselves, often into subordinate postures.

Air Superiority. The ability of an air force to achieve control of contested airspace, repeatedly if necessary, and if there are any losses, those losses would not pose a statistical deterrence to that ability.

Air Supremacy. He flies, he dies. In other words, control of airspace is absolute and unchallengeable. If the enemy flies, he dies.

All of the above is not possible without endurance. Air superiority is not possible without persistence of presence, it means you must be able to return again and again, and you must be able to do so at your tactical convenience. Air power is more possible with persistence of presence than of attainable speed.

Most people thinks that air refueling is about extending range. But if there is enough fuel to fly longer in distance, then why not use the fuel to fly longer in time. That is persistence of presence made possible by air refueling.

An interception mission is not about flying as fast as possible to point X, shoot one or maybe a few missiles, then fly home. Even if you scared of the intruders without firing a shot, an interception mission requires your continuous presence over that area of violation for as long as your fuel can hold in order for you to determine your mission is successful. A high durability engine make this possible.

The J-20 have a very high standard to meet -- US. Not Russia, but US. If you see any Chinese boasting of how fast the J-20 can fly with WS-whatever-designator-number, ignore it. US airpower, of all branches of services, is based more upon persistence of presence, and less on speed. The PLAAF generals understand this better than the Internet Chinese.

@Deino @The Eagle @WebMaster this is repeat thread derailment. This man is making a mockery of the forum by using his perceived respectability to throw random information which is not the main topic of this thread. This information is best shared on a separate dedicated thread.
 
It is a half year report by AVIC Aero-engine company in compliance to Shanghai & Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Financial data aside, the key points that interested us is:-

The company is currently producing WS-15, WS-10 and WZ-9, basically covering the needs of almost all aircraft currently in (PLAAF, PLA Aviation & PLAN Aviation) service.
It says major products are WS-15, WS-10, and WZ-9 ... not that they are in current production (at least the WS-15)
 
It says major products are WS-15, WS-10, and WZ-9 ... not that they are in current production (at least the WS-15)

No, it clearly mentioned that these types of jet engines have been utilized by the current deployed aircrafts.

No native Chinese readers can be mistaken with that.

主要产品包括涡扇-15、涡扇-10和涡轴-9等,基本覆盖了现役全部机型
 
The core would be about 1/3 down the overall length of the entire engine. That means each blade would be 1/4 the height of the man. Now imagine a blade to be a SINGLE CONTINUOUS CRYSTAL.
Many engines built in eighties and on had monocrystalline blades, but kudos to P&W for having them in sixties. The next level over that is putting reinforcing mesh from some cermet, boron, or silicon carbide fibre inside the monocrystal without disrupting the crystal growth. R179 made by Soyuz had such blades, but allegedly, the price for that was very low yields.
 
It is a half year report by AVIC Aero-engine company in compliance to Shanghai & Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Financial data aside, the key points that interested us is:-

The company is currently producing WS-15, WS-10 and WZ-9, basically covering the needs of almost all aircraft currently in (PLAAF, PLA Aviation & PLAN Aviation) service.

It is the stock analysis of AAPC.
 
HO HO, Santa Claus has arrived early to our house. I have got my Christmas Present, early.

北京钢研高纳科技股份有限公司

http://www.cisri-gaona.com.cn/

Screen Shot 2019-12-24 at 11.46.41 PM.png

CISRI-Gaona is a Chinese company that makes all kinds hi-tech superalloy products, including components for Chinese Aircraft Engines.


It has accidentally published its production projection figures for various Chinese Aircraft Engines, including the WS-15, WS-18 and WS-19.

Screen Shot 2019-12-25 at 12.23.27 AM.png

Here is the my translation:


The national WS-15 engine is the highest priority project, future demand estimate is 5 engines per year. This is same for the WS-19 engine. The WS-15’s forged Titanium component price is 190 million Yuan each, and for the WS-19, it is 120 million Yuan. CISRI-Gaona has became a qualified supplier.

The following is the production projection figures.

Screen Shot 2019-12-25 at 12.23.27 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-25 at 12.15.00 AM.png


Notice: the Market Share row. For 2020, the company’s market share for WS-15 and WS-19 is 20%. This means CISRI-Gaona is not the only suppliers for the same components.

If 5 is 20% of the market share, it means, the annual total production number for WS-15 is 25.

Strangely, though, the production estimate is the same for 2020 to 2025, yet the market share goes up from 20% to 50%.

So, I will take the market share figure with some salts.

This is the original post: https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2603525-1-1.html
Please take a quick look. I won't be surprise the Chinese Censors will delete it, soon.
 
The national WS-15 engine is the highest priority project, future demand estimate is 5 engines per year. This is same for the WS-19 engine. The WS-15’s forged Titanium component price is 190 million Yuan each, and for the WS-19, it is 120 million Yuan. CISRI-Gaona has beca
:cry::cry::cry: so expensive
 
The national WS-15 engine is the highest priority project, future demand estimate is 5 engines per year. This is same for the WS-19 engine. The WS-15’s forged Titanium component price is 190 million Yuan each, and for the WS-19, it is 120 million Yuan. CISRI-Gaona has became a qualified supplier.

whoa, is that per engine cost? that's way more then the F119
 
Wow!!! V.v.v expensive, esp when you consider Chinese Labour rates compared to USA labour rates. Why soo expensive ? Profiterring ?
 
190万元 is 1.9 million yuan:hitwall:
it also says ws18 encountered many issues that currently it is progressing at half pace
 

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