China's Stealthy J-20 with the new WS-15 power plants is expected in 2024, will give the J-20 more thrust than any other fighter class in the world

[Bilal9]

China will produce a decent engine when we know the thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates of the engines that can be benchmarked across all other engine types and we can make an assesment of that.

Until we know that - it is all hype. It is one thing to design an engine that can reach a specific thrust - but it is another thing for that to be reliable, cost effective with comparable thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates against the likes of GE, Rolls Royce etc..

RD-93s produce thrust comparable to western engines, but with fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates that are poor compared to western engines like EJ2000 etc..

You know - the Brits forced British Airways (BOAC) to install RR engines in the Lockheed Tristars it operated, just like the RR Conway fitted B707s BOAC bought. My dad was in one on his way to London in a Tristar in the eighties and it had to make two emergency stops in Abu Dhabi and Larnaca enroute due to engine trouble. It took him three days with the unplanned lay-overs. Such was RR reliability.

RR jet engines were half as reliable as GE or PW even as recent as a few decades ago, so backdated was the technology. It was the stuff of jokes.

Every dog has it's day. British govt. persisted and the tech improved on the backs of accidents and on-air engine failures, hundreds of them.

You keep persisting and things will get better. No use bad mouthing the Chinese.

BTW the new RD-33MK (which succeeded the RD-33 which again succeeded the RD-93) uses FADEC, is smokeless and has way more thrust compared to the RD-93. Things don't stay static - they always keep improving.

 

[Bilal9]

Hi,

Had you ever thought where the american engine would be at that time---?

Now that we understand the longevity of the american engine over the chinese engine---let's look at it from a different perspective---.

If the american engine costs arund 6 million dollars a piece---the chinese engine may cost around 1.5 million dollars each---.

So---there can be more ready to replace engines of chinese origin in the warehouse as the need be---.

Switching an engine is just a couple of short hours job---and it can be easily done between the sorties---.

As I stated before---the Paf likes the product RD93---. It has done the job what it was acquired to do and more so---. For the Paf to make the switch---the upcoming engine will have to bring a radical difference in performance---.

Another thing to realize is, American engines won't get any cheaper anytime soon, unless they find a radically new cheaper way to produce these things.

It was a bad idea to try to fight the Chinese - there were so many chances of useful synergies that got wasted by the wayside. The loss was all on the US side not to mend fences with China.

The paranoia coming from US allies in Asia may cost the US very dearly...

 

[hyperman]

As for as the f-16-s---PAF stayed with it for 15-20 years over its expiry date---.

How is it 15-20 years over its expiry date? lol you act like Pakistan had better options available or something(it didn't, there was a reason Pakistan waited for the J-10Cs to fully develop before placing an order, the previous gen just wasn't at its full potential with a reliance on russian engines and the avionics suites not being all that much better than the F-16s Pakistan was flying). F-16s were most certainly not expired(in fact they still aren't, the only think past it expiry data in the PAF is the J-7/F-7s and the Mirages).

You may say the J 10 is for paf righty now---because you turn with the wind--

Huh? what do you mean "turn with the wind" where did I "turn"?

Btw I'm not saying the J-10 is a better fighter than the F-16, its not. What I'm saying is that the J-10Cs are better than the version of the F-16s Pakistan is flying. Pakistan's F-16 are not Block 70 though, so they don't have the AESA and other modernizations.

 

[FuturePAF]

Strange data, as we all know, WS-15 is an engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio of 10. If the weight is 2500KG, it means that the thrust reaches 25 tons. . .

The issue is how many hours the engine will last.

 

[S10]

It's been 13 years since J-20's first flight and 6 years since the first operational plane was assigned to a combat unit. I think China should aim for a major avionics and radar upgrade package for J-20 with the arrival of WS-15.

The issue is how many hours the engine will last.

WS-10 is currently at 4000 hours, so I expect something similar or slight improvement on WS-15.

 

[Han Patriot]

Junk-20

Mods flame bait... Please clean this clown up

 

[FuturePAF]

It's been 13 years since J-20's first flight and 6 years since the first operational plane was assigned to a combat unit. I think China should aim for a major avionics and radar upgrade package for J-20 with the arrival of WS-15.


WS-10 is currently at 4000 hours, so I expect something similar or slight improvement on WS-15.

Engine advancement is probably the hardest part of a stealth fighters development, alongside signature management. Don’t take my word for it, I just watched “Born to Fly” and engine development one of the central premises of the movie. The other premise was that the young generation has to do things to make China more confident in itself.

At a minimum the life span is expected to be similar, presumably.

Btw, In the movie it was the “Tianshan” (which is actually the name of the WS-13 but said to be the WS-21 in the movie), engine that was being perfected on the J-20A.

 

[TopGun786]

No need to prove yourself an idiot.... You already look one.

Junk-20

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

China will produce a decent engine when we know the thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates of the engines that can be benchmarked across all other engine types and we can make an assesment of that.

Until we know that - it is all hype. It is one thing to design an engine that can reach a specific thrust - but it is another thing for that to be reliable, cost effective with comparable thrust/fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates against the likes of GE, Rolls Royce etc..

RD-93s produce thrust comparable to western engines, but with fuel rates/service life/mtbo/failure rates that are poor compared to western engines like EJ2000 etc..

to buy J-10

 

[FuturePAF]

Now that the WS-15 is ready for mass manufacture, any chance China would develop a single engine variant to boost domestic numbers as well as for the export market? Its small size could make it an ideal platform (manned and unmanned) for use on a Type 076 light carrier.

For Pakistan it could really complement the T-FX, and a great replacement for the JF-17 in due course.

A single engine platform would also be very economical for the PAF to operate. Also, the PAF shouldn’t repeat the choice of going for a light platform to form the bulk of its force, as the future landscape is shaping up to be medium and heavy enemy combatants. A light platform just may not have the flight envelope to put itself In advantageous positions as easily as a medium or a heavy platform.

Unmanned versions of this plane would be able to keep up with the J-20 and even act as a screening force to fly ahead of the J-20s or T-FX (in the case of the PAF). To carry out dangerous missions like being a Wild Weasel or EW platform against naval task groups.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/z55xwq

 

[LKJ86]

any chance China would develop a single engine variant to boost domestic numbers as well as for the export market?

J-20 and J-35 are enough. And then, China will focus on the next generation fighters.

 

[K_Bin_W]

J-20 and J-35 are enough. And then, China will focus on the next generation fighters.

China is already working on next-gen fighters

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

It remains premature to declare that China has attained mastery of fighter jet engine technology at the level of the USA, or even the UK and France. However, it is evident that China has successfully replaced the Al-31 engine of the J10C with the WS-10 engine. Furthermore, their new WS-15 engine is now propelling the J20, indicating that China possesses a functional jet engine capable of powering their fighter jets and other aircraft. With time, they will continue to refine and enhance this technology, gradually approaching the level of engines manufactured in the US. However, achieving this level of perfection will still require approximately 10-15 years.

 

[SQ8]

It remains premature to declare that China has attained mastery of fighter jet engine technology at the level of the USA, or even the UK and France. However, it is evident that China has successfully replaced the Al-31 engine of the J10C with the WS-10 engine. Furthermore, their new WS-15 engine is now propelling the J20, indicating that China possesses a functional jet engine capable of powering their fighter jets and other aircraft. With time, they will continue to refine and enhance this technology, gradually approaching the level of engines manufactured in the US. However, achieving this level of perfection will still require approximately 10-15 years.

They have had functional jets since the 70s - it is metallurgy and Turbofan design which eluded them for a while.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

They have had functional jets since the 70s - it is metallurgy and Turbofan design which eluded them for a while.

Initially, China did not possess the technology to develop their own jet engines and relied on manufacturing Russian jet engines under license.