The Indian Navy’s future power: Kolkata-Class and Visakhapatnam-Class Destroyers

[serenity]

I have just carefully read the detailed report on the test firing of the Indian Navy's "Kochin" and "Chennai" on May 15, 2019. I'm sure it's just relay guidance, not CEC at all. Not even a junior CEC.

Depends on definition of CEC. It is definitely one form of CEC which is why I said earlier not "full CEC". Anyone with any knowledge of this stuff can say for sure it is not the same level of CEC as being used in other parts of the world. This example is multiple platforms with the right kind of equipment onboard, carrying out guidance for a Barak-8 launched by another platform. This is what USA at least referred to as CEC-1?

Type 051 had similar abilities and honestly not even limited to this platform as you have said. That's 30 years old when it was in development (of the systems involved).

I mean this technology isn't too unrelated to telecommunications technologies. In fact a subset of that domain of technologies. I don't expect India has any domestic telecommunication technologies that is even close to 2000s era ones like 3G.

 

[serenity]

Australia also had relay CEC capability before India. Since it had American based systems for CEC before 2019.

Let's see which navies at least had any form of CEC before 2019.

Russia with many platforms
Australia with Canberra and many others
China with many platforms
USA many platforms basically all current destroyer and cruiser
Israel with the same Barak-8 and arrays and S band AESA that India is using to claim 2nd to have CEC
Royal navy
South Korean navy
Japanese self defence force navy

All these at least had relay CEC way before 2019. So India is at best the 9th navy to have CEC. Most of them never announced it or had a newspaper publish that trial information. Doesn't mean anything though or change reality.

Wikipedia says India is 2nd after US to have it even though Israel equipment is used which means logically Israel should come before India. Looks like wikipedia is not always so accurate.

 

[MH.Yang]

Depends on definition of CEC. It is definitely one form of CEC which is why I said earlier not "full CEC". Anyone with any knowledge of this stuff can say for sure it is not the same level of CEC as being used in other parts of the world. This example is multiple platforms with the right kind of equipment onboard, carrying out guidance for a Barak-8 launched by another platform. This is what USA at least referred to as CEC-1?

Type 051 had similar abilities and honestly not even limited to this platform as you have said. That's 30 years old when it was in development (of the systems involved).

I mean this technology isn't too unrelated to telecommunications technologies. In fact a subset of that domain of technologies. I don't expect India has any domestic telecommunication technologies that is even close to 2000s era ones like 3G.

No, the lower CEC can only be applied to two warships, not the whole fleet. However, it must include shared situational awareness, not just the data sharing of fire control radar. If relay guidance is a CEC, the standard of CEC is too low.

 

[SMX 3.0]

India's so-called CEC is only the relay guidance of Barak 8 air defense missile between two P15A destroyers.
This level of CEC can only be equivalent to HQ7 used in 053H3 made in China in the 1990s. China recorded using 053H3 and HQ7 for relay guidance in 2007.
CEC standard of 055 refers to all situation awareness and fire control radar data sharing in the whole fleet. Please don't lower the CEC index without permission.
Also, please don't compare Indian warships with Chinese warships at will.

BTW: HQ7 used in 053H3 of Bangladesh has relay guidance capability, and SS-N-22 manufactured in 1970s of Russia also has relay guidance capability.

无人机在反舰导弹中继制导中的关键问题研究 - 百度学术

xueshu.baidu.com

https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1635472046807703226&wfr=spider&for=pc

This has nothing to do with the CEC capabilities described in the opening article.

HHQ-9, HHQ-16 as SAM missiles.

Any links?

The guy claimed India is second country to achieve CEC. Well the Indian navy CEC is between Israeli Barak-8 missile and Israeli S band EL/M 2248 radar along with I'm sure is Israeli high speed data link arrays that can communicate with Israeli EL/M 2248. Barak-8 is as Israeli as JF-17 is Chinese rather than Indian and Pakistani. The inputs and everything are of course there but this still means Indian CEC on Israeli equipment means Israel had CEC before India since they also use Barak-8 and these electronic equipment.

So how can India be second to have CEC if it is getting CEC on one weapon type based totally of Israeli missile and electronic equipment?

Is the CMS, the Ship Data Network, Communication Suite, or the GSAT 7A satellite- Israeli?

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

These comments show the level of discussion in PDF now a days.....

Trolling Trolling Trolling...

Overall, Punjabi phrase used by Gill “Tuada Kutta Tommy Sada Kutta Kutaa” is a term used to make a person realise that it holds its own interests and needs a notch higher than the rest.

 

[MH.Yang]

This has nothing to do with the CEC capabilities described in the opening article.


Any links?



Is the CMS, the Ship Data Network, Communication Suite, or the GSAT 7A satellite- Israeli?

The link I sent is about the relay guidance experiment of UAV, but the relay guidance experiment of HQ7 is mentioned in the article.
Do you know why P15A can't have CEC at all? Because the real CEC must have a high-speed data link system. P15A did not.

 

[serenity]

This has nothing to do with the CEC capabilities described in the opening article.


Any links?



Is the CMS, the Ship Data Network, Communication Suite, or the GSAT 7A satellite- Israeli?

So you ask me for links to prove to you HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 are CECed SAM weapons and if there are no links they cannot be? I see your logic. I guess yes you're right China has no CEC.

Do you have links to show the CMS, ship data network, Communication Suite and GSAT is part of Kolkata class's CEC for Barak-8 missile?

Your own link says Barak-8 is the weapon in question with Indian navy which is the claim to CEC. It doesn't use satellite guidance.

There is no comparison between 150km range Barak-8 and DF-26 anti-ship ballistic missile. One of them requires satellite or HALE sensor nodes and the other one require at most some relay guidance.

 

[SMX 3.0]

Russia with many platforms
Australia with Canberra and many others
China with many platforms
USA many platforms basically all current destroyer and cruiser
Israel with the same Barak-8 and arrays and S band AESA that India is using to claim 2nd to have CEC
Royal navy
South Korean navy
Japanese self defence force navy

RN do not have CEC capabilities, and three others you listed use AEGIS.

The link I sent is about the relay guidance experiment of UAV, but the relay guidance experiment of HQ7 is mentioned in the article.

Talking about operational ones, not experiments.

Do you know why P15A can't have CEC at all? Because the real CEC must have a high-speed data link system. P15A did not.

P15A carries BEL manufactured high-speed data links.

So you ask me for links to prove to you HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 are CECed SAM weapons and if there are no links they cannot be? I see your logic. I guess yes you're right China has no CEC.

Again, I don't see the point in debating about something, which existence can't be proven.

Do you have links to show the CMS, ship data network, Communication Suite and GSAT is part of Kolkata class's CEC for Barak-8 missile?

Start here. It's not a regularly updated website nor it has the complete information, but it'll do.

Naval Systems - BEL

 

[serenity]

RN do not have CEC capabilities, and three others you listed use AEGIS.



Talking about operational ones, not experiments.



P15A carries BEL manufactured high-speed data links.


Again, I don't see the point in debating about something, which existence can't be proven.



Start here. It's not a regularly updated website nor it has the complete information, but it'll do.

Naval Systems - BEL

Do you have proof Brahmos is CEC?

What links? What does it use?

 

[MH.Yang]

RN do not have CEC capabilities, and three others you listed use AEGIS.



Talking about operational ones, not experiments.



P15A carries BEL manufactured high-speed data links.


Again, I don't see the point in debating about something, which existence can't be proven.



Start here. It's not a regularly updated website nor it has the complete information, but it'll do.

Naval Systems - BEL

Can you find the high-speed data link antenna at P15A ?

Like this, China's and USA's all are like this.

 

[Kingdom come]

RN do not have CEC capabilities, and three others you listed use AEGIS.



Talking about operational ones, not experiments.



P15A carries BEL manufactured high-speed data links.


Again, I don't see the point in debating about something, which existence can't be proven.



Start here. It's not a regularly updated website nor it has the complete information, but it'll do.

Naval Systems - BEL

Barak 8

Missile defence system to be test fired in August: DRDO chief

The indigenously developed ballistic missile defence system will be test fired in August this year, a top defence official said today.

m.economictimes.com

More than 70 per cent of the content in the missile being developed with Israel is indigenous."
From 2010

 

[serenity]

RN do not have CEC capabilities, and three others you listed use AEGIS.



Talking about operational ones, not experiments.



P15A carries BEL manufactured high-speed data links.


Again, I don't see the point in debating about something, which existence can't be proven.



Start here. It's not a regularly updated website nor it has the complete information, but it'll do.

Naval Systems - BEL

Which out of these BEL products performs CEC for Barak-8 missile? You ask for China to present absolute evidence of HHQ-9 and HHQ-16 being CEC capable. Well I showed you the CEC arrays. China doesn't say these missiles are CEC. Does that mean in your mind they are not even though this is clearly demonstrated by the arrays presence? What else are they for? We know what the fire control and detection radars units are and the IFF systems. We know which are likely for EW EA and communications and the arrays are all there.

We know China can launch YJ-83 missile from submarines. Submarines have no ability to guide anti-ship missiles. Clearly some CEC is being used between weapon and sensor.

So what evidence is there the Indian and not Israeli sensors are used for Barak-8 CEC like you mentioned and claimed. If it isn't then how is India ahead of Israel in CEC ability when the task is done by Israeli systems. By your logic on the HHQ missiles, if there is no link saying it it doesn't exist or not worth discussing.

 

[SMX 3.0]

Which out of these BEL products performs CEC for Barak-8 missile?

Did you see the CMS, ACCS, or the SDN? Or the Link II Mod3 high-speed data link?

More than 70 per cent of the content in the missile being developed with Israel would be indigenous."
From 2010

Shh... reverse engineered S-300 is of Chinese origin according to them.

 

[serenity]

Did you see the CMS, ACCS, or the SDN? Or the Link II Mod3 high-speed data link?


Shh... reverse engineered S-300 is of Chinese origin according to them.

DF-21 and DF-26 are clearly CECed as well. How else can they perform those tasks.

Did you see the CMS, ACCS, or the SDN? Or the Link II Mod3 high-speed data link?

Yes and they don't say "this is what performs CEC for Barak-8" lol

BTW many of these systems are either foreign or foreign based as well.

https://www.bel-india.in/Products.aspx?MId=13&LId=1&link=69

 

[SMX 3.0]

Which out of these BEL products performs CEC for Barak-8 missile? You ask for China to present absolute evidence of HHQ-9 and HHQ-16 being CEC capable. Well I showed you the CEC arrays. China doesn't say these missiles are CEC. Does that mean in your mind they are not even though this is clearly demonstrated by the arrays presence? What else are they for? We know what the fire control and detection radars units are and the IFF systems. We know which are likely for EW EA and communications and the arrays are all there.

Again, there is zilch, zero proof of the capabilities having been demonstrated tor HQ-9.

Yes and they don't say "this is what performs CEC for Barak-8" lol

No, it doesn't. Same way your arrays prove nothing either.