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The illicit wine-makers of Pakistan's north

No, I beg to disagree.
If the Qur'an told You to avoid leaning too far out, when You are in a high-rise building,
it is because it is safer for You not to lean out.

Context is key. The Quran doesn't say avoid intoxicants to a degree that's too much, it simply says avoid intoxicants - there aren't any conditions like you've given in your example.

You cannot draw the conclusion, that leaning out is committing a sin.
If the Qur'an had a statement that You should avoid leaning out and worship idols,
it still would not mean that leaning out becomes a sin, just good advice.

The trouble with your argument is that you're assuming that the Quran is a typical self-help book. It contains divine commandments - you can't pick and choose (if you are a believer).


The banning of Idol worship is clarified in many places in the Qur'an.
Not so for intoxicants. The threat is that you may be less successful
which noone disagrees with.
That does not make it a punishable sin, just good advice.

The consumption of intoxicants is stated to be an abomination of the devil, it is also mentioned to avoid it, in the same line that idol worship is asked to be avoided. There is simply no leeway here dude, no matter how much you argue. Other things that are abominations? Incest, homosexuality, etc.Are you now going to argue that committing incest is NOT a sinful activity and avoiding it is simply "good advice" without any consequences if you engage in it with consent?!
When the Quran mentions such things are abominations, they are sinful activities. If a believer doesn't agree, he/she is disregarding the word of God, for which the punishment is retribution in the hereafter.

[4:18] Not acceptable is the repentance of those who commit sins until death comes to them, then say, "Now I repent." Nor is it acceptable from those who die as disbelievers. For these, we have prepared a painful retribution.
 
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Published on Monday, 19 October, 2015 at 08:07

A local resident unloads a basket of freshly picked grapes into a cement tank for brewing winePhoto: AFP



A local resident unloads a basket of freshly picked grapes into a cement tank for brewing wine in a garden in the remote village of Sher Qilla in Punyal valley in northern Pakistan.
Photo: AFP


A local resident unloads a basket of freshly picked grapes into a cement tank for brewing winePhoto: AFP

(AFP) The hems of his jeans rolled, Rehmat Ali climbs barefoot up a tree to pick the grapes dangling from climbing vines, defying hostile religious injunctions against alcohol to celebrate a wine-making tradition that is older than Islam in the mountains of Pakistan.

Every autumn in the remote village of Sher Qilla in the foothills of the Himalayas, Rehmat joins the many agile young people taking to the trees for the long-awaited harvest under the watchful eye of their gnarled and chiselled elders.

Drenched in sunlight, bunches of grapes crown the treetops, where they are safe from the opportunistic reach of greedy farm animals.

Rehmat -- slim, and with an aquiline nose -- begins to pick the forbidden fruit. Working with his bare hands, he places the green and crimson grapes in a wicker basket that is lowered to the ground along a rope.

The fruit is tossed into the khor, a cement tank washed with icy glacier water, where barefoot villagers trample it to press the juice.

Then, beneath the permanently snow-capped mountains, the villagers concoct their tangy, golden wine with undercurrents of peach, as well as brandies of grape and blackberry.

"We learned from our fathers and grandfathers, who were already making wine," smiles Rehmat, who pressed his first grapes and tasted his first sip of wine at the age of "eight or nine".

Eighty-six-year-old Ali, balancing his beige pakol -- a flat, soft-topped hat -- atop his head, cranes his neck to watch the freshly-pressed juice hurtling towards the base of the angled khor.

Inhabitants of the remote area converted to Islam in the 16th century -- but, before that, they were Buddhists who, Ali says, were the first to make wine here.

"People have maintained this tradition after the conversion to Islam," he explains.

When he was a child, he says, "before the harvest, custom demanded we slaughter an animal and pray before we started picking the grapes".

The juice, he explains, was then kept in an underground stone reservoir. Once fermented, they would lower a hollowed out yak horn on a piece of wire to draw up draughts of wine.

"Not everyone can drink the wine," says Ali.

"Some are not able to digest it, and the ignorant lose their heads and fight", he said.

But, he adds, for others, "wine and alcohol nourish love and humility".

Winter survival tool
Majnoon Omar, an elderly man with a thin green cedar twig tucked beneath his topi, or circular cap, sings of this love.

Whirling languidly, like a dervish in slow motion, he recites his poetry. "You say that my prayers are not legitimate because I have a glass of wine / But you take bribes," he sings pointedly in Shina, a local language.

Majnoon is addressing his ode to those who, on the side of the authorities, reproach him.

One of the different currents of Islam that flow through the alpine region is Isma'ilism, a branch of Shiism led by the influential Aga Khan, the hereditary chief.

The present Aga Khan, who lives part of the year in France, forbids his followers from consuming or producing alcohol, in line with a ban in Pakistan dating from the 1970s.

Some might call the ban fruitless: the walls of some cities in the region are adorned with warnings against drinking and driving.

Villagers say they especially like drinking wine during Persian New Year, at weddings and other celebrations, and even to mark the birthday of the Prophet Mohammed.

Ismailis are not the only ones to produce alcohol in the region: Shiites and Sunnis do also.

Sabirullah -- a plump Sunni with bouffant hair reminiscent of Elvis Presley -- sees the harvest as a mountain legacy that he has no plans to give up.

"Our ancestors had to survive the winter, the alcohol was warming and relaxing," he said.

"This is part of our culture and it will not die as long as I live."


A local resident pours the juice from crushed grapes as part of a brewing wine process
Photo: AFP

'But I like it'
Local police, meanwhile, tolerate
the amateur wine-making so long as no one is profiting from it.

Mohammad Aslam -- a member of the Ismaili education board who has been trying to persuade villagers in the region not to drink for 30 years -- says the only tool he has is persuasion.

"All branches of Islam, including the Ismailis, are adamant about the production and consumption of alcohol: it is 'haram', forbidden," he says.

"I can ask people, I can make them understand. But you see, it's very difficult to change the habits of people, the cultural habits of the people."

The elderly singer Majnoon, for one, remains defiant. "Religious leaders are no-one to command or control my life," he retorts.

"From a religious point of view... people used to say that we shouldn't drink. It is not so much that it is a sin or forbidden, but that it is not good for your health.

"But I am used to it and I like it."


Interesting enough this was found in the Luxembourg post and also in the Bangkok post:

well its made in a little natural but unhygienic way

Actually I don't drink, however, that's not reason enough to label everything I don't like as "Al-Haza-Harraaaaaaaaaaam"! :D
munasib
 
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Alcohol is halal. Pigs can also fly.

People who don't even bother praying 1 single prayer a day talk as though they are Muftis and Aalims.
'Hypocrisy' is the term, and some of you really need to check out what the Quran has to say about that.
 
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And make a mockery of Pakistani laws.

Dude if you are an atheist that's none of my concern but at the same time, do ponder on the point that these people violate Pakistani laws.

Do you know that chewing gum is banned in Singapore? They impose a heavy fine on those who eat chewing gum.
The same way wine is banned in Pakistan and any one who consumes wine violates our laws. You are encouraging people to violate Pakistani laws as those laws according to you have no need to be respected.

Sir I don't know how you concluded that I am an atheist, and let's say hypothetically even if I am one, how does my personal beliefs correlate with the Pakistani law? :-/

I am not encouraging or telling anyone to break Pakistani law...it is just my opinion that no one should force anyone to do anything against their will as long as it only affects themselves.

I don't really see the comparison between chewing-gum and alcohol? We're talking about alcoholic beverages sir, and Singapore allows them.
 
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I'm pretty sure people whom Allah has commanded know.

Is that why the very word "alcohol" is Arabic? It use in chemistry as a solvent (and many other uses besides) was well-known during the heydays of Muslim empires of the past for good reasons. It was produced in great quantities for such uses. And more.
 
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Okay guy's I am not going to tangle here with the experts since I am crippled by being far from a expert on the religious doctrine ec.

However may I ask the "learned" people here three very simple questions:-

Q1. Does society or one set of people have right to compel religion on other people?

Q2. What does "there is no compulsion in religion mean"?

Q3. What does "my religion unto me and your religion unto you" mean?

And please in addressing these keep it sharp, sweet and short. Concise. No waffle. Thanks.
 
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Have you studied mustalahaath al hadith? NO!
I ask you again, where does it say in the Quran on how to do namaaz?



I answered and yet you do not comprehend.

1. I told you there is ONE WAY OF NAMAAZ! What part of this statement don't you understand?
2. I told you nabi as'salaathu was'salaam in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances did do the rafadain as mentioned before with the reasons.

There is no difference of opinion. I as a Hanafi jurisprudence school follower can do the rafadain. It is SUNNAH, not FARID of namaaz!

Do you even know what Farid, Sunnah, Wajiab, Nafil mean?

Go an study what is NAMAAZ and what are the wajibaath and Faraid!

Now, who are you? What religion are you from? There NO way a MUSLIM cannot know about NAMAAZ!



It is a shame that you say such things when you were honored above all nations and yet what you say is a testamount to those who came before us from amongst your nation.

As far as the dogs of Hell (ISIS) are concerned, we'll deal with them if they come here.

By ALLAH, Prophet Muhammad as'salaathu was'salaam did INDEED split the moon in half! Why would you believe this when your nation disbelieved and disobeyed Prophets that came before; Sulaiman as'salaam, Musa as'salaam, Zakariyaa as'salaam, Binyamin as'salaam, Essa as'salaam, etc.

Man, you must be from ganja smoking dillusional to believe moon was split - then show me proof? Another one of the man made created myth to spin off supernatural powers. No different than mystics who perform hand tricks. Sorry pal, this is where you are completely drunk on religious indoctrination rather than liquor. You will quote hadith but does it say it in the Koran - it does not. Anything in hadith just like talmud as i reiterate is man created so cannot be quoted.
 
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