The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[absarahmedkhan]

I'll tell you why, which is more like stating the obvious

J&K is a Muslim majority state and they have an obvious inclination towards Pakistan which is a declared Islamic State. This is just natural human nature that (birds of a feather flock together).

Muslims in the rest of India are more scattered and intermingled with the local culture whereas Kashmir's have lived in a cluster forever and with such close geographical proximity to Pak , added to the sympathy of Pak with Kashmiri's , plebiside is a gamble in which India only stands to loose.Also, the fact that around 3-4 Lac Kashmiri pundits were flushed out of the State by terrorists or slaughtered like lambs means that any plebeside is devoid of a fair reflection of the lands original inhabitants.

While it's important to respect peoples wishes , a nation cannot entertain the possibility of parting with territorial assets for it.

India does not want to risk losing a state (hence no plebeside). What it can do is make the life of the people easier by giving them more autonomy, but for that purpose it is necessary that Army is 1st withdrawn and for that it's necessary to have Zero militancy.

That makes a wretched reason to support your argument, I'm sorry.

Former Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru had promised to the people of Kashmir that they would be given right of self-determination. The promise is yet to be fulfilled. When? No one knows.

 

[Barrett]

India does not want to risk losing a state (hence no plebeside). What it can do is make the life of the people easier by giving them more autonomy, but for that purpose it is necessary that Army is 1st withdrawn and for that it's necessary to have Zero militancy.

Couldn't agree more. But its like saying "We are scared of loosing the game so we wouldn't play." I suppose it is about something more then the egos of Pakistanis and Indians, its about the lives of Kashmiris and the whole conflict directly or indirectly effecting the people of both the countries. Kashmir is nothing more then a tool for political point scoring for the corrupt politicians of the two countries, as both the nations are very emotional. It is about time we sit and decide the fate of the kashmiri people once and for all. Let the people of Kashmir decide what they want .....
Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris

 

[desiman]

Before you give me the advise of growing up why don't you talk and defend your arguments with facts and credible sources. Yes we see you growing but unfortunately your country is still nothing but a big slum look at the economical hub for an example. In reply to your 100 stats I can give you 150 so as i advised you earlier you need take care of your own issues that endanger the very own integrity of your country. It is your country who is so scared about Kashmir that they have deployed 600,000 military officials. My reply to all your wishes "The numerous UN resolutions"..... Why are you so scared of a Plebiscite ?

In reply to vsdoc:
I can name Tribes like
Mengal,Murre, Gabol, Bugti, Khetran, Jamali etc etc who not only played a vital role in the struggle for the independence of Pakistan but also joined at their will.
As far as the NWFP is concerned I just want to remind you that these are the same people who fought and liberated the part of Kashmir we have right now.
Kindly post facts and not your wishes or what you have been taught in your Racist Hindu schools....get out of your shell and admit the realities of Gujrat and what the indians are doing to the muslims in Kashmir, more then 50,000 have been killed. Your Military officials die everyday. Kashmir is your integral part and yet they are treated as Kashmiris and not indians .... few days back your very own cricket team refused to play in Kashmir..... You block their fruit exports.... block cell phone networks.... your soldiers kill innocent civilians and rape the female members of the family on a daily basis Yet your media potrays an ideal situation and your politicians lie so blatantly that its not even funny anymore. What I perceive is that the Indians are under serious inferiority complex and a backward society...you keep comparing your progress with Pakistan....a much smaller country Why not with China....?

Your stories would make an extra-ordinary bollywood entertainer but a little too real for the real world.....

The Solution to Kashmir is "UN RESOLUTIONS"

Barrett, watch you language brother, i did not use any derogatory language when i was talking about Pakistan. Pakistan isnt exactly Switzerland also. If your ego is to big to accept that Pakistan cannot be even compared to India in any way then you can say whatever you want. The fact is that Maharastra's economy is much bigger than the whole of Pakistan lol Yes we have slums but we also have many of the richest people in the world. I dont see even one Pakistani in the top 100 let alone the top 10. Buddy the fact is that Pakistan can only use Kashmir as an issue to get the crowds together and your leaders have been doing that for a long time now. India foreign policy is now geared towards China and Pakistan does not play a role anymore in Indis's foreign policy decisions. You can cry all you want and give me all the stats you have but the ground reality is a fact that Pakistan is on the verge of a all out civil war and collapse where on the other hand even with many problems India continues to grow at a truly magnificent speed and is an example to the world on how democracy works. Lastly coming to kashmir, Pakistan might as well as forget it as India has already made it very clear that Pakistan has or will ever play any role in Kashmir. Kashmir is an internal issue and will be handled by the Indian government. Pakistan does not need to tell India about what it needs to do, it first needs to solve its own huge humanitarian crisis. If pakistan can have demands about kashmir and support the few extermist there then India has also the full rights to support the Baluch people and help them in their strive for freedom. Kashmir is and will always be a part of India because that is where it belongs and Buddy if you really want to Know I am a Muslim also and I love India more than anything, and when i hear that India is doing that or this just because someone is muslim , all i can do is laugh. India has given Muslims an equal opportunity at everything, yes there are few isolated events but just to outline the success Muslims have enjoyed i can give you atleast a 100 names of very famous Muslims that are from India. We have had Presidents that are muslims, a naval chief, many prominent minister, Azim Premzi (if you know who he is), all the Khans in bollywood and the list goes on and on. The issue with Kashmir is nothing but incitement from across the border when the ground reality is very different. I have been to Kashmir many times and the love they have for India is amazing. Many young Kashmiris now work in Bombay or Delhi and have intention whatsoever to be separated from India. The issue of Kashmir is all but dead and the reality is what Pakistan muct accept and move on. Solve your own astronomical problems first before you try to interfere in someone else’s issues. Sorry i did not want to write in this way but your stupid remarks about slums has totally ticked me off, if you cant stick to the topic then dont comment on anything else, your not the only one who can do that.

 

[Barrett]

Barrett, watch you language brother, i did not use any derogatory language when i was talking about Pakistan. Pakistan isnt exactly Switzerland also. If your ego is to big to accept that Pakistan cannot be even compared to India in any way then you can say whatever you want. The fact is that Maharastra's economy is much bigger than the whole of Pakistan lol Yes we have slums but we also have many of the richest people in the world. I dont see even one Pakistani in the top 100 let alone the top 10. Buddy the fact is that Pakistan can only use Kashmir as an issue to get the crowds together and your leaders have been doing that for a long time now. India foreign policy is now geared towards China and Pakistan does not play a role anymore in Indis's foreign policy decisions. You can cry all you want and give me all the stats you have but the ground reality is a fact that Pakistan is on the verge of a all out civil war and collapse where on the other hand even with many problems India continues to grow at a truly magnificent speed and is an example to the world on how democracy works. Lastly coming to kashmir, Pakistan might as well as forget it as India has already made it very clear that Pakistan has or will ever play any role in Kashmir. Kashmir is an internal issue and will be handled by the Indian government. Pakistan does not need to tell India about what it needs to do, it first needs to solve its own huge humanitarian crisis. If pakistan can have demands about kashmir and support the few extermist there then India has also the full rights to support the Baluch people and help them in their strive for freedom. Kashmir is and will always be a part of India because that is where it belongs and Buddy if you really want to Know I am a Muslim also and I love India more than anything, and when i hear that India is doing that or this just because someone is muslim , all i can do is laugh. India has given Muslims an equal opportunity at everything, yes there are few isolated events but just to outline the success Muslims have enjoyed i can give you atleast a 100 names of very famous Muslims that are from India. We have had Presidents that are muslims, a naval chief, many prominent minister, Azim Premzi (if you know who he is), all the Khans in bollywood and the list goes on and on. The issue with Kashmir is nothing but incitement from across the border when the ground reality is very different. I have been to Kashmir many times and the love they have for India is amazing. Many young Kashmiris now work in Bombay or Delhi and have intention whatsoever to be separated from India. The issue of Kashmir is all but dead and the reality is what Pakistan muct accept and move on. Solve your own astronomical problems first before you try to interfere in someone else’s issues. Sorry i did not want to write in this way but your stupid remarks about slums has totally ticked me off, if you cant stick to the topic then dont comment on anything else, your not the only one who can do that.

I'm not surprised that you never have any relevant replies to my questions or any facts to support your arguments. Your attitude just gives a clear picture of your intolerance. We always talk of solutions and on the contrary Indians just don't seem to admit the ground realities. There is a freedom struggle going on since the past sixty three years which you still haven't been able to curb with the presence of a huge number of army officials and claim everything to be just perfect. Yes we should leave it to India since they are doing a great job in Kashmir already.
Bollywood is not reality brother

Why don't you talk of solutions?
UN resolutions ?
De-militarization ?
Plebiscite ?

Arguing with a fool proves there are two.

 

[desiman]

I'm not surprised that you never have any relevant replies to my questions or any facts to support your arguments. Your attitude just gives a clear picture of your intolerance. We always talk of solutions and on the contrary Indians just don't seem to admit the ground realities. There is a freedom struggle going on since the past sixty three years which you still haven't been able to curb with the presence of a huge number of army officials and claim everything to be just perfect. Yes we should leave it to India since they are doing a great job in Kashmir already.
Bollywood is not reality brother

Why don't you talk of solutions?
UN resolutions ?
De-militarization ?
Plebiscite ?

Arguing with a fool proves there are two.

Brother my only point is that India will solve the Kashmir issue peacefully and democratically, but Pakistan has no role to play here. India does not needs to jusitfy its actions to Pakistan or needs to work in any way with Pakistan to solve this issue as this is an internal Indian issue. My whole point is that India worries about its own problems and Pakistan worries about its own, its when you start interfering in other people issues is when problems start coming up. Kashmir is progressing and slowing but steadily moving on. The situation is much better now and tourism is starting up again. If left alone Kashmir will blossom into what it was previously again Dont take it personally bro im just commenting on the situation.

 

[Nihat]

That makes a wretched reason to support your argument, I'm sorry.

Former Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru had promised to the people of Kashmir that they would be given right of self-determination. The promise is yet to be fulfilled. When? No one knows.

JLN was quite an idiot (my personal opinion) , half the problems India faces today are because of him and his idiotic politices (as well intended as they may be).

Under influence of the Western block , he made an irrational decision of Internationalizing a domestic or at best Bi-lateral issue , JLN has long gone and his promises and policies went with him.

As for the statement "don't play the game for fear of losing it" , one has to look at what is at stake for India.

One can type endlessly on the forum and keep crying UN , rights , plebiside , let kashmiri's decide etc. but it just keeps things stuck because this option is just not acceptable to India and she is under no compulsion whatsoever to fulfill it.

As for Kashmir belongs to Kasmiri's logic , why dosen't the same rule apply to say Tibet , where Tibet belongs to Tibetans or Chechneya belongs to the chechans.

 

[vsdoc]

Lets take the title of the thread - Seven possible solutions.

Then lets work our way backward.

Solution indicates that there is a Problem.

Where there is a Problem there has to be a Cause.

As is very obvious in a Standoff of any sort, all of the above are different and mutually exclusive depending on which side of the fence you look at it from.

I look at it as an Indian.

Kashmir is ours ..... no IFS, no BUTS. Period.

There would never have been a "Problem" were it not for Pakistan ..... the Cause.

Contrary to the 37 pages of intellectually stimulating posts here, it is my humble opinion that the "Solution" is sadly playing itself out in Pakistan today.

And no Bezerk, its none of the Seven you have come up with.

Its the classic case of one man's Solution now becoming his Problem.

And happily for the other, vice versa.

The tables have turned.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vsdoc]

As far as the NWFP is concerned I just want to remind you that these are the same people who fought and liberated the part of Kashmir we have right now.

Please read my post above ..... its directed particularly to Pakistanis who think like you.

Gain a pinky to lose an arm.

Kindly post facts and not your wishes or what you have been taught in your Racist Hindu schools

I studied in a missionary school run by American/Canadian Jesuit priests ..... maybe you could amend your astute observation to "racist pro-conversion shaitani Christian schools" instead .... just a suggestion.

Kashmir is your integral part

Thank you .... its good to see a Pakistani confronting reality for a change.

What I perceive is that the Indians are under serious inferiority complex and a backward society

Sure we are ..... especially coming from a progressive Pakistani with so many things going for him to feel superior about.

The Solution to Kashmir is "UN RESOLUTIONS"

I again exhort you to read my post above. The solution is playing itself out ..... and kudos to Pakistan and Pakistanis for doing it single-handedly.

No India.

No USA.

No Israel.

No UN.

Cheers, Doc

 

[r3alist]

Lets take the title of the thread - Seven possible solutions.

Then lets work our way backward.

Solution indicates that there is a Problem.

Where there is a Problem there has to be a Cause.

As is very obvious in a Standoff of any sort, all of the above are different and mutually exclusive depending on which side of the fence you look at it from.

I look at it as an Indian.

Kashmir is ours ..... no IFS, no BUTS. Period.

There would never have been a "Problem" were it not for Pakistan ..... the Cause.

Contrary to the 37 pages of intellectually stimulating posts here, it is my humble opinion that the "Solution" is sadly playing itself out in Pakistan today.

yes, india should takeover pakistan and then kashmir, thats the solution isn't it?




cheers, r3alist.



do you believe in human dignity? intrinsic right to decide your own fate? human rights?


if you do then support the kashmiri's on this, its as simple as that. you can try and pretend as much as you want, but those are the issues that kashmiri's worry and care about, believe me, i know more than most of you guys sitting behind your screens talking on behalf of a people that you guys yourself have no connection with.

 

[vsdoc]

yes, india should takeover pakistan and then kashmir, thats the solution isn't it?

Not Pakistan, we just want our mukut back. You guys are welcome to Pakistan ...... and the struggle to keep it Pakistan.

do you believe in human dignity? intrinsic right to decide your own fate? human rights?

Do you?

Believe me there is no dignity in being blown up by a terrorist bomb.

There is no dignity in being shot in cold blood on your own soil by terrorists sent by sea by your hostile neighbour.

There is no dignity in being forced to provide food and shelter to terrorists from across the border in the dead of night at the ends of an AK47.

Do you and your country believe in human dignity r3alist?

I believe not. At least not for the less than human dravidian-tamil black short bastards across the border.

Cheers, Doc

 

[r3alist]

Not Pakistan, we just want our mukut back

oh is kashmir yours then?

hmmm, no i disagree, fight you for it?

deal?

grow up.



but you are a funny guy, you manage to say one thing and contradict yourself the very next post.


fact is india has been ruled and lorded over by many people, shall we say politely say that many people have had a go at old mother india?hehe.


its in no position to start reversing history and make demands just because its no longer being directly ruled, the classroom geek has found some balls and now wants to become the classroom bully huh???



the funny thing is indians like yourself, who i wager have no connection to kashmir ir its people other than imperialist desires feel like they can speak best for them.

you cant speak for them thats why you never let them speak for themselves, afraid much??

ofcourse you are!!!

theres the contradiction you have to live with.




cheers, r3alist.

 

[vsdoc]

oh is kashmir yours then?

hmmm, no i disagree, fight you for it?

You didn't ask my permission the previous 5 times your army got whipped in the past now did you?

Why start now? Go ahead and make our day ..... its the trigger India is waiting for, to provide the moral high-ground for what would follow.

Talk about being a funny guy ..... getting a wedgie in his own backyard courtesy his own brothers, but still strutting with chest puffed out.

fact is india has been ruled and lorded over by many people, shall we say politely say that many people have had a go at old mother india?hehe.

You forgot your pet 1000 year spiel ..... would be nice to dig deep into the "seed" of your racial/martial origins once again ..... try me.

its in no position to start reversing history and make demands just because its no longer being directly ruled, the classroom geek has found some balls and now wants to become the classroom bully huh???

We need no "balls" to handle our 1000 year ex-rulers my friend ..... our women are more than enough apparently.

You should try your hand the next time you are in this part of the world ..... in case the anemic gori mems out there have made you feel more "ballsy" than you sadly ever will be.

Cheers, Doc

 

[r3alist]

You didn't ask my permission the previous 5 times your army got whipped in the past now did you?

Why start now? Go ahead and make our day ..... its the trigger India is waiting for, to provide the moral high-ground for what would follow.

Talk about being a funny guy ..... getting a wedgie in his own backyard courtesy his own brothers, but still strutting with chest puffed out.



You forgot your pet 1000 year spiel ..... would be nice to dig deep into the "seed" of your racial/martial origins once again ..... try me.



We need no "balls" to handle our 1000 year ex-rulers my friend ..... our women are more than enough apparently.

You should try your hand the next time you are in this part of the world ..... in case the anemic gori mems out there have made you feel more "ballsy" than you sadly ever will be.

Cheers, Doc

sorry to invoke godwins law but that sounds positively nazi-esque, want to check the purity of my blood?

hmmm where have i heard that before?

so is this what our resident indian secularist comes out with?


in any case, if i were to think along those racist lines why would i want to be indian? who wants to be indian?

anyone? white pople dont, black people certainly dont and in the uk a fair few indians dont aswell....

you guys should look at your reputation around the world in regards to these "racial hygiene" type issues , i will say no more.



anyway, this is childish, you want kashmir because you think its yours yet you remove the people out of the equation - this is imperialism my friend, what happened to democracy huh?




cheers, r3alist.

 

[vsdoc]

in any case, if i were to think along those racist lines why would i want to be indian? who wants to be indian?

anyone? white pople dont, black people certainly dont and in the uk a fair few indians dont aswell....

you guys should look at your reputation around the world in regards to these "racial hygiene" type issues , i will say no more.

The question is not about you wanting to be an Indian ..... instead its of Indians wanting to suffer the emabrrasment of you claiming to be one.

Lets not start of what the world thinks about Indians my friend ..... especially since I visit the UK pretty often and have a lot of doctor friends there.

Being direct about what I have heard spoken about you guys would get me banned, and I kinda like it here, with you types for my dose of daily entertainment.

anyway, this is childish, you want kashmir because you think its yours yet you remove the people out of the equation - this is imperialism my friend, what happened to democracy huh?

Democracy is alive and kicking in Kashmir buddy. Regular elections enthusiastically participated in. Popular government at the helm of things. Freedom to hold all the rallies and protests your heart desires.

Freedom to live.

A far sight more than your most developed cities buddy ...... and not just right now, cause that would be truly below the belt.

What more do you want?

Cheers, Doc

 

[r3alist]

you really want to go down the racial eugenics route and talk about indians, where did you get your MD from :ROFL:

please lets not talk about the merits of being "a pure blooded indian", nobody else does for good reason, so i would bit my tongue to save yourself some embarrassment.

Being direct about what I have heard spoken about you guys would get me banned

and therein lies the issue with you, stop being a charlatan, you are trying to be something you are not, you come into these threads looking for a bit of a reaction, i mean why else would you bring up your whacko notions of "racial hygiene" and pakistani's, obsessed much? ofcourse you are!!

Freedom to hold all the rallies and protests your heart desires.

rallies, yep true, plenty of them, most of them protesting against your lot.

A far sight more than your most developed cities buddy

so kashmir is more developed than the most developed parts of pakistan....well this is news to me




cheers, r3alist.