The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the Muslims in Hyderabad Deccan are taking the stand at least


http://www.kashmirobserver.net/inde...e-in-kolkatta-&catid=3:regional-news&Itemid=4

 

[RollingStones]

the Muslims in Hyderabad Deccan are taking the stand at least


Kashmir: Protest in Hyderabad, Hunger Strike in Kolkatta

Here is why I think Kashmir's freedom movement wont be successful:

- it is tough to portray India as a HR violator. The theme Kashmiris are trying to convey to the external world that India is a HR violator is simply not going to succeed.
- At the end of the day, India is a parliamentary democracy. No one is going to put down a parliamentary democracy. To claim that a parliamentary democracy violates HR by design is ludicrous at best.
- The reason why Kashmir should be independent is tenuous at best: what will an independent Kashmir do for the region and the world?
- The world does not need another poorly governed area: Kashmir will end up like that. We simply do not need any more loosely governed countries and more paperwork in the world. We certainly dont need more diplomats and more confusion in international trade and legal obligations. We also dont need one more country spending on Arms purchases in the name of so-called defense.
- Kashmir can be a totally autonomous area within India with a unique government of its own such as Hong Kong: to me, the Hong Kong or Macau model is the best for Kashmir. But we want small areas to belong to larger entities so there are fewer entities to deal with in the world. We need Unions and NOT disintegrations.

My solution: form a United States of South Asia, merging all South Asian Countries with a federal system like in the US - senate, house of rep and popularly elected chief executive.

Benefits: no more useless antagonistic defense spending between India and Pakistan; better use of water resources; better trade between entities; no more nuclear threat; focus is on education, employment, and human growth.

Bottom line: the world wants South Asia to act as an integrated whole and not balkanize. Kashmir will end up balkanizing South Asia and no one wants that. I am dead against Kashmir becoming an independent nation. It can choose to become like Hong Kong or Macau, which I greatly support.

 

[SONOFAGUN]

Here is why I think Kashmir's freedom movement wont be successful:

- it is tough to portray India as a HR violator. The theme Kashmiris are trying to convey to the external world that India is a HR violator is simply not going to succeed.
- At the end of the day, India is a parliamentary democracy. No one is going to put down a parliamentary democracy. To claim that a parliamentary democracy violates HR by design is ludicrous at best.
- The reason why Kashmir should be independent is tenuous at best: what will an independent Kashmir do for the region and the world?
- The world does not need another poorly governed area: Kashmir will end up like that. We simply do not need any more loosely governed countries and more paperwork in the world. We certainly dont need more diplomats and more confusion in international trade and legal obligations. We also dont need one more country spending on Arms purchases in the name of so-called defense.
- Kashmir can be a totally autonomous area within India with a unique government of its own such as Hong Kong: to me, the Hong Kong or Macau model is the best for Kashmir. But we want small areas to belong to larger entities so there are fewer entities to deal with in the world. We need Unions and NOT disintegrations.

My solution: form a United States of South Asia, merging all South Asian Countries with a federal system like in the US - senate, house of rep and popularly elected chief executive.

Benefits: no more useless antagonistic defense spending between India and Pakistan; better use of water resources; better trade between entities; no more nuclear threat; focus is on education, employment, and human growth.

Bottom line: the world wants South Asia to act as an integrated whole and not balkanize. Kashmir will end up balkanizing South Asia and no one wants that. I am dead against Kashmir becoming an independent nation. It can choose to become like Hong Kong or Macau, which I greatly support.

Excellent suggestion. Only issue is Pakistan thinks being secular is a crime. ..how do you address this cancer.

The reason why Kashmir Freedom movement will end is Indian Bureacracy and Politicians..ability to manage it......being politicians and not dictators. India had gone through worse in Punjab for decades and now it is so peaceful. We have a Sikh Prime Minister.....Democarcy & Secularism will again conqer in the end.

 

[Xeric]

Here is why I think Kashmir's freedom movement wont be successful:

- it is tough to portray India as a HR violator. The theme Kashmiris are trying to convey to the external world that India is a HR violator is simply not going to succeed.
- At the end of the day, India is a parliamentary democracy. No one is going to put down a parliamentary democracy. To claim that a parliamentary democracy violates HR by design is ludicrous at best.
- The reason why Kashmir should be independent is tenuous at best: what will an independent Kashmir do for the region and the world?
- The world does not need another poorly governed area: Kashmir will end up like that. We simply do not need any more loosely governed countries and more paperwork in the world. We certainly dont need more diplomats and more confusion in international trade and legal obligations. We also dont need one more country spending on Arms purchases in the name of so-called defense.
- Kashmir can be a totally autonomous area within India with a unique government of its own such as Hong Kong: to me, the Hong Kong or Macau model is the best for Kashmir. But we want small areas to belong to larger entities so there are fewer entities to deal with in the world. We need Unions and NOT disintegrations.

My solution: form a United States of South Asia, merging all South Asian Countries with a federal system like in the US - senate, house of rep and popularly elected chief executive.

Benefits: no more useless antagonistic defense spending between India and Pakistan; better use of water resources; better trade between entities; no more nuclear threat; focus is on education, employment, and human growth.

Bottom line: the world wants South Asia to act as an integrated whole and not balkanize. Kashmir will end up balkanizing South Asia and no one wants that. I am dead against Kashmir becoming an independent nation. It can choose to become like Hong Kong or Macau, which I greatly support.

OOoo.i just forgot that we are living in a unipolar world!!

Thanks for reminding.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Here is why I think Kashmir's freedom movement wont be successful:

- it is tough to portray India as a HR violator. The theme Kashmiris are trying to convey to the external world that India is a HR violator is simply not going to succeed.
- At the end of the day, India is a parliamentary democracy. No one is going to put down a parliamentary democracy. To claim that a parliamentary democracy violates HR by design is ludicrous at best.
- The reason why Kashmir should be independent is tenuous at best: what will an independent Kashmir do for the region and the world?
- The world does not need another poorly governed area: Kashmir will end up like that. We simply do not need any more loosely governed countries and more paperwork in the world. We certainly dont need more diplomats and more confusion in international trade and legal obligations. We also dont need one more country spending on Arms purchases in the name of so-called defense.
- Kashmir can be a totally autonomous area within India with a unique government of its own such as Hong Kong: to me, the Hong Kong or Macau model is the best for Kashmir. But we want small areas to belong to larger entities so there are fewer entities to deal with in the world. We need Unions and NOT disintegrations.

My solution: form a United States of South Asia, merging all South Asian Countries with a federal system like in the US - senate, house of rep and popularly elected chief executive.

Benefits: no more useless antagonistic defense spending between India and Pakistan; better use of water resources; better trade between entities; no more nuclear threat; focus is on education, employment, and human growth.

Bottom line: the world wants South Asia to act as an integrated whole and not balkanize. Kashmir will end up balkanizing South Asia and no one wants that. I am dead against Kashmir becoming an independent nation. It can choose to become like Hong Kong or Macau, which I greatly support.

Kashmiris can decide how to 'design' and implement reforms or changes to their lands....that is external matter you have no say in at all. You mentioned parliamentary democracy -- Azad Kashmir enjoys that status.


I think you forgot what your stated objectives were; you wanted to somehow convince me that the freedom struggle would fail for X Y Z reasons; if you werent just re-stating your hypothesis without supporting evidence, you were bringing up Hong Kong and ''Unions'' among other things

p.s. if birth of a country rests solely on whether it will ''contribute'' towards the world (as opposed to merely allowing people their existential right to 'exist') then I wonder why Kosovo got its independence in 2008?

 

[linkinpark]

The future of Kashmir as I see it will be status-quo given the current strategic geo-politics. The current hullabaloo of separatists is the like flickering of flame before dying.

 

[RollingStones]

Kashmiris can decide how to 'design' and implement reforms or changes to their lands....that is external matter you have no say in at all. You mentioned parliamentary democracy -- Azad Kashmir enjoys that status.


I think you forgot what your stated objectives were; you wanted to somehow convince me that the freedom struggle would fail for X Y Z reasons; if you werent just re-stating your hypothesis without supporting evidence, you were bringing up Hong Kong and ''Unions'' among other things

p.s. if birth of a country rests solely on whether it will ''contribute'' towards the world (as opposed to merely allowing people their existential right to 'exist') then I wonder why Kosovo got its independence in 2008?

BS...how many governments do you want in South Asia doing the same bureaucratic work that delays everything for everyone? In today's world, people are trying to be more efficient. Your arguments are all so backward looking - freedom for what? Are Kashmiris being prevented from learning, from starting new companies and creating wealth, from owning land in other parts of India, from marrying people of their choosing, from practicing a religion of their choosing, from moving freely between economic opportunity points...? What exactly are they fighting for? And using stones is so medieval that I actually do not want handing over government to people who are so medieval in their approach to solving problems. Kosovo, as you mentioned, suffered from several of their real freedoms I pointed above being severely restricted. There is no such thing happening in Kashmir. If they want to be masters of their own economic opportunity and governance, they can be like Hong Kong or Macau. I can assure you that there will never be any international support for Kashmir's "freedom" unless they come up with real, tangible reasons as to why they want to be free from a reasonably well functioning democracy called the Union of India. Yes, india has its governance issues, crime, mob violence etc., but you cannot expect the international community to agree to Kashmir's freedom because of these issues. I think both Indian and Pakistani Kashmir should have Hong Kong like status within their own federations and that's the end of that. Everything else is just a sheer waste of time and resources.

Start trimming governments, make them more efficient. Improve justice delivery, governance and representation. Telling the world that dividing Unions is the best way to achieve this is nonsensical at best and this is exactly why the Kashmir "freedom" movement will fail.

 

[linkinpark]

BS...how many governments do you want in South Asia doing the same bureaucratic work that delays everything for everyone? In today's world, people are trying to be more efficient. Your arguments are all so backward looking - freedom for what? Are Kashmiris being prevented from learning, from starting new companies and creating wealth, from owning land in other parts of India, from marrying people of their choosing, from practicing a religion of their choosing, from moving freely between economic opportunity points...? What exactly are they fighting for? And using stones is so medieval that I actually do not want handing over government to people who are so medieval in their approach to solving problems. Kosovo, as you mentioned, suffered from several of their real freedoms I pointed above being severely restricted. There is no such thing happening in Kashmir. If they want to be masters of their own economic opportunity and governance, they can be like Hong Kong or Macau. I can assure you that there will never be any international support for Kashmir's "freedom" unless they come up with real, tangible reasons as to why they want to be free from a reasonably well functioning democracy called the Union of India. Yes, india has its governance issues, crime, mob violence etc., but you cannot expect the international community to agree to Kashmir's freedom because of these issues. I think both Indian and Pakistani Kashmir should have Hong Kong like status within their own federations and that's the end of that. Everything else is just a sheer waste of time and resources.

Start trimming governments, make them more efficient. Improve justice delivery, governance and representation. Telling the world that dividing Unions is the best way to achieve this is nonsensical at best and this is exactly why the Kashmir "freedom" movement will fail.

Excellent post mate!!!.

Pakistanis portray India as an occupying force in Kashmir, but historically occupying forces are there to economically exploit those places for resources. On the contrary, India central government is spending more money on Jammu and Kashmir state than any other Indian state.

And one needs to ask these separatists the following questions...

Are Kashmiris being exploited economically? - No
Are there any resources that India is taking away from Kashmir? - No
Are they being not allowed to follow their religion? - No
Are they being expelled from their homes? - No
Are their properties being confiscated from them? - No

So, what exactly these separatists are asking independence from??.

 

[RollingStones]

Excellent post mate!!!.

Pakistanis portray India as an occupying force in Kashmir, but historically occupying forces are there to economically exploit those places for resources. On the contrary, India central government is spending more money on Jammu and Kashmir state than any other Indian state.

And one needs to ask these separatists the following questions...

Are Kashmiris being exploited economically? - No
Are there any resources that India is taking away from Kashmir? - No
Are they being not allowed to follow their religion? - No
Are they being expelled from their homes? - No
Are their properties being confiscated from them? - No

So, what exactly these separatists are asking independence from??.

But India has to do the following asap as well:

- repeal its security forces from Kashmir's town and villages and confine them to bases
- repeal or amend Acts that provide immunity to the armed forces; if situation gets worse, you can always reimpose
- track down people who shot innocent Kashmiris and punish them heavily; knowing India's notoriously slow judicial process, fast track such cases
- institute scholarships for students affected by warfare to go to schools and colleges in different parts of the country
- provide free psychological counseling to affected folks
- mount a heavy ad campaign enunciating the advantages of going to schools and colleges



India has to remove security forces from Kashmir's towns and villages asap and amend high handed acts.

 

[Indiarox]

But India has to do the following asap as well:

- repeal its security forces from Kashmir's town and villages and confine them to bases

Army is in the barracks plus a lot of them are deployed along the line of control to stop infiltrators from Pakistan.

- repeal or amend Acts that provide immunity to the armed forces; if situation gets worse, you can always reimpose

When the armed forces are acting in counter insurgency in volatile areas they need some sort of safeguards ,there is talk of amendment.

- track down people who shot innocent Kashmiris and punish them heavily; knowing India's notoriously slow judicial process, fast track such cases

Sort of agree with you but most of the cases are handled by the military courts and the guilty are Court Martial-ed

- institute scholarships for students affected by warfare to go to schools and colleges in different parts of the country

Already happening!Just this year a Kashmiri doctor topped the Indian civil service exam.

- provide free psychological counseling to affected folks

Ya it is being done for those who approach the Govt

- mount a heavy ad campaign enunciating the advantages of going to schools and colleges

Already being done.

India has to remove security forces from Kashmir's towns and villages asap and amend high handed acts.

I already replied to both these charges.


This situation is not as simple as it seams.
There are three parts of J&K which is under Indian administration which are Jammu,Srinagar valley and Ladakh .jammu and Ladakh would never want to leave India and there is also a problem of displaced Kashmiri Pundits (Hindu's) who were displaced during the insurgency period their concerns should also be addressed.

 

[RollingStones]

Army is in the barracks plus a lot of them are deployed along the line of control to stop infiltrators from Pakistan.

When the armed forces are acting in counter insurgency in volatile areas they need some sort of safeguards ,there is talk of amendment.

Sort of agree with you but most of the cases are handled by the military courts and the guilty are Court Martial-ed

Already happening!Just this year a Kashmiri doctor topped the Indian civil service exam.

Ya it is being done for those who approach the Govt

Already being done.




I already replied to both these charges.


This situation is not as simple as it seams.
There are three parts of J&K which is under Indian administration which are Jammu,Srinagar valley and Ladakh .jammu and Ladakh would never want to leave India and there is also a problem of displaced Kashmiri Pundits (Hindu's) who were displaced during the insurgency period their concerns should also be addressed.

After looking at everything and the number of disgruntled people, the solution to me appears simple:

India needs to give a choice to the people of Kashmir who want to live in India or ne independent. I think India needs to let go of people who want to be in Pakistan and give them,say, a $10,000 relocation assistance per person and be done with it. I think there already is an independent kashmir called Azad Kashmir, I believe. I think the Indian Govt can work out a deal with this Azad Kashmir where it gives 50% of the allowance or $5K to the Govt. of AK and 50% to the person who is relocating. It can even go further and see if it can secure a piece of land in AK or a house there for relocating families. Some innovative schemes like that are required. I think India is making a huge error keeping disgruntled Kashmiris in their part of kashmir. It is going to blow up big time on India's face if problems are not solved structurally and economically right NOW.

 

[Xeric]

BS...how many governments do you want in South Asia doing the same bureaucratic work that delays everything for everyone? In today's world, people are trying to be more efficient. Your arguments are all so backward looking - freedom for what? Are Kashmiris being prevented from learning, from starting new companies and creating wealth, from owning land in other parts of India, from marrying people of their choosing, from practicing a religion of their choosing, from moving freely between economic opportunity points...? What exactly are they fighting for? And using stones is so medieval that I actually do not want handing over government to people who are so medieval in their approach to solving problems. Kosovo, as you mentioned, suffered from several of their real freedoms I pointed above being severely restricted. There is no such thing happening in Kashmir. If they want to be masters of their own economic opportunity and governance, they can be like Hong Kong or Macau. I can assure you that there will never be any international support for Kashmir's "freedom" unless they come up with real, tangible reasons as to why they want to be free from a reasonably well functioning democracy called the Union of India. Yes, india has its governance issues, crime, mob violence etc., but you cannot expect the international community to agree to Kashmir's freedom because of these issues. I think both Indian and Pakistani Kashmir should have Hong Kong like status within their own federations and that's the end of that. Everything else is just a sheer waste of time and resources.

Start trimming governments, make them more efficient. Improve justice delivery, governance and representation. Telling the world that dividing Unions is the best way to achieve this is nonsensical at best and this is exactly why the Kashmir "freedom" movement will fail.

Ok, so by this definition half of Africa must perish.

Just because you dont care of people's emotions and sensibilities and grade everything terms of material (money, progress, wealth etc) it wouldnt imply that you (lone) got to decide their fate.

Kashmiris must get what the lean for, this includes independence and/or joining india.

May be the independence and liberty that you enjoy in the US should also be slashed once we found out that they have been detrimental to world as a whole.

 

[Xeric]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/world/asia/14kashmir.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Deadly Clashes Continue in Kashmir

By LYDIA POLGREEN
Published: August 13, 2010

Kashmiri protesters run for cover as Indian paramilitary soldiers chase them during a protest in Srinagar, India on Friday.


NEW DELHI — Kashmiris demanding independence from India flooded the streets in protests across the troubled region Friday[Rolling, your 'suggestion' just went down that drain which empties in Gulf of Mexico], clashing repeatedly with the police and Indian security forces, the

Four people were killed, bringing the total number of dead to at least 55 since the unrest began in June. Kashmiris have been marching in increasing numbers, and in increasingly bold defiance of strictly enforced curfews, in an effort to force India to withdraw its troops from the disputed region, which is claimed by India and Pakistan. It was the first Friday of the Ramadan fasting month, and many people in the mostly Muslim region tried to visit mosques to offer prayers.

The clashes dampened hopes that Ramadan, during which Muslims neither drink nor eat from sunrise to sunset, would cool the simmering anger here. The protests, which began when a teenager was killed by a tear gas shell in June, have spiraled into a broad, unarmed popular revolt that Indian authorities have struggled to control.

Poorly trained and equipped security forces use live ammunition to fend off angry, stone-throwing crowds. The resulting deaths have fed still more protests, and the state government has resorted to calling in still more troops to try to wrest control of the streets.

On Friday police officers fired on a crowd of protesters in the town of Pattan, and a 58-year-old man died of injuries sustained there. In the separatist stronghold of Sopore a large crowd gathered after Friday Prayers and threw stones at a camp occupied by Indian paramilitaries, who opened fire, killing two people, the police said. In Kupwara, a local official ordered the police to open fire on a crowd of 2,000 people who had gathered in defiance of curfew, police officials said. A 23-year-old man died of a gunshot wound.

In Srinagar, the regional capital, officials did not impose curfew, and Friday Prayers were held at the historic, pagoda-shaped mosque for the first time in six weeks. Officials had feared violence if they tried to prevent worshipers from visiting the mosque.

Many Indian paramilitary forces were deployed in Kashmir to fight a brutal, Pakistan-backed insurgency that swept across the Kashmir Valley in the 1990s. They operate under special laws that shield them from prosecution, and many Kashmiris say that this has led to many human rights violations in the region.

Hari Kumar contributed reporting.

 

[HitNRun]

India is loosing kashmir now

 

[Indiarox]

After looking at everything and the number of disgruntled people, the solution to me appears simple:

India needs to give a choice to the people of Kashmir who want to live in India or ne independent.

The State level elections reveled that 65-70% want to stay with India.

I think India needs to let go of people who want to be in Pakistan and give them,say, a $10,000 relocation assistance per person and be done with it. I think there already is an independent kashmir called Azad Kashmir, I believe. I think the Indian Govt can work out a deal with this Azad Kashmir where it gives 50% of the allowance or $5K to the Govt. of AK and 50% to the person who is relocating. It can even go further and see if it can secure a piece of land in AK or a house there for relocating families. Some innovative schemes like that are required. I think India is making a huge error keeping disgruntled Kashmiris in their part of kashmir. It is going to blow up big time on India's face if problems are not solved structurally and economically right NOW.

the problem is that these disgruntled people intend to take the whole state of Kashmir with them when they leave for Pakistan the Hindu's ,Buddhist and 35-40%Muslims and other minorities simply don't want to leave India.
We simply can't abandon these people because India saw what kind of atrocities the Pundits faced at the hand of these people so what guarantee that the rest of the people wont be treated in the same way.Pakistan is not exactly known for its religious tolerance.