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The False Savior of Pakistan

ONLY in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and such countries, you can write utter crap like the above, and get away with it.

So what does one general has to do to be "SO" popular? Finally try to cure the Cancer created and supported by previous generals???? And somehow that should create love and respect for the general? In other democratic countries, the previous generals would be put on trial for creating these militias as treason.

Can someone share with me ONE growth policy that Pakistani military created in her 60 years of rule? One study, policy or laws to create more jobs, estimation of growing population, need for electricity, water, hospitals, education, ANYTHING that was actually done for the PEOPLE of Pakistan by the military??

I have a lot of respect for Gen. RS (on a personal relationship), I know the guy well and he has too much integrity to seek power and "fame". But I am questioning what's in people's heads who write utter crap and propaganda like above. In Pakistan's 70 years of history, the military is the most over glorified institution in the country!!

So now NS and IK are giving props to Gen. RS for bringing the Stock Markets and Credit Ratings up, FDI and all economic growth????? :o:o_O :yahoo: :rofl: :crazy: :angel: :nana: :omghaha:!!

Only in Pakistan can the journalists go to such low-level that they lie and abuse their writing power to this degree. RS is a great general, but the guy can't spell Foreign Direct Investment, let alone negotiating to bring it in. The stock market and the Chinese investments had already been agreed upon between NS and the Chinese government. Way before the Zarb-Azb was ever conceived!!!! The stock market had already doubled before IK's sit-ins. May be Kiyani ( 6 billion ruppees corruption, just did a plea-bargain with NS's government to keep his name hidden) and Mushy ( over $ 500 million, majority sent to son in Boston) and other generals who did hundreds of millions worth of investments, decided to invest that black money into the stock market and that's how it went up :fie: :drag:

Pakistan's five year economic plan which Pakistan was implementing was developed under Military dictator Ayub Khan. A Good number of people consider Ayub's era the greatest of all for Pakistan. South Korea copied our five year economic model/plan at that time.

Dams and other infrastructure are constructed under him. Obviously, he had his own shortcomings. He was not 100% but he handsomely delivered.

The Times of Ayub Khan | Pakistan Insider

Btw, we all are for democracy and strongly oppose any military adventure in politics. Yes General Raheel is popular but he shouldn't take charge of government because it is not his job. I think Pakistanis ( military, government and people ) all have learnt a lot by their mistakes. You do realize that countries take time to evolve. :pakistan:
 
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if you are american, you are short of general knowledge about Pakistan. Military did not rule for 60 years. i am asking you questions this is because you should do a bit of research about Pakistan yourself rather than believing in "your" media propaganda by fox news and the like who wrongly propogated weapons of mass destruction in iraq which were never to be found. For reference read about Hans Blix.

I think Fox news should come ask me about Foreign Relations, I might correct their heads that are usually stuck in 1960's America ruled by just White people. I hope this answers your questions. I don't just watch news and learn about places. I guaranteed know more about Pakistan than you. I am willing to put a $ 20.00 bet on it.

A few hours ago, Mr. Chandio and Mr. Nisar was on the phone for 30 minutes. And CM Sindh is threaten NS's party to impose the Governor rule if they can. He called Zardari five hours ago. I think Zardari was in KSA!!!!! Tell me if Fox or any news is as real time as I am :rofl:

Democracy can flourish in countries where there is literacy and Pakistan is unfortunately 60% literate. I have seen with my own eyes in recent local government elections illiterate and impoverished people voting for some minor monetary benefit for corrupt politicians who were not even eligible to run as per our constitution and our election commission could not do anything. Also do a bit of research into assets of NS and family plus zardari and company and taxes which they have paid. You are talking as if you are owner of multiple banks.

This is bullshiit. Indians didn't have everyone with a PHD in something for the past 70 years. The Americans weren't all holding Masters degree for the past 300 years either. To add "education" is like you telling a cop "I passed the driving test (which means reading through laws), and I still cut the red light because I didn't go to college" :yahoo: :rofl:. That would get you a ticket and the cop will call you names.

The democracies didn't come about with everyone holding a top notch degree. They came about when the PEOPLE felt the need to live peacefully with basic rights. You don't have to have a PHD to be democratic. This whole education shit is bullshit.

The democracy IS flourishing in Pakistan. The work that has started, has NEVER been done in the 60 dark years of military history. So right here, tells you where the blame is. The MILITARY fukked it up for the entire country, didn't let institutions setup, oppressed people, didn't create ANY forward looking policies, didn't create ANY need estimates and didn't create any new jobs, projects, etc. And when it let citizens come into power in the 90's through force, the military STILL kept wrapping up the carpet.

The military made tremendous wrong calls and did corruption. Who militarizes their OWN country???? Who supports a terrorist organization like Taliban and calls it a "strategic depth"???? Who supports another terrorist organization called MQM and makes these target killer bastards above the law???? All these were mistakes made by the military.

So why democracy couldn't survivice in Pakistan? Because generals with boots didn't want to. Today, its different. If these generals with boots want to take away the democracy, they should be ready to have a starving Army and India will break you with horses and cannons from the 1800's. A military without funding is just a bunch of people sitting around and chilling around their "tanks" that won't work without money. And the money is funded by a civil government who finds opportunities like the CPEC.


On Taxes, Warren Buffet (the richest man in America), just threw a speech, and mentioned how 300 families in the US control like 70% of the Wealth and paid less than 10% taxes on their income. And he compared this tax rate to his Maid's tax rate. But, these people create millions of job and continue to legally invest into other business so their tax rates will be cheaper.

Who cares how rich who is? Whoever is elected, needs to finish 5 years as elected by the people and dictated by the constitution. After the 5 years, people should see what they did. If they did corruption and what not, take them to the court, get them to go to trail and on jail. That's your right. But don't fukk over your country while a system is in flight.

Democracy isn't successful in Pakistan because 550K soldiers, and their friends and families think they are the ONLY loyal party to Pakistan and they can suppress 200 million people's voting rights and put Marshall Law. That's the reason Why democracy isn't successful. But at this time, the work being done for the PEOPLE by their elected government, is MORE than what has been done in ALL 70 years of Pakistan's life. So you can see what a democratic system works when people are elected and have a vision!!

your views represent an ideal mindset which does not take into account the ground realities of third world. your democracy took centuries to mature and in todays fast moving world, time is a luxury which we as Pakistanis can ill afford. The current lot of politicians in Pakistan are not eligible as per article 62 of our constitution. This is rule of jungle here and to correct it we definitely need a messiah and that messiah can be either civilian or military, we dont want to get into semantics. ( write some concise thing, your not competing in some essay competition)

:rofl: My views represent the reality. And that is, the military has virtually destroyed Pakistan's world standing, has militarized it for decades, has never let a system to be established.

My views also account for the work that the Pakistani people need done. In the 3 years of the current government, there is MORE work being delivered than in the past 70 years of Pakistan's life. Go beat that. This is the measuring stick. PERFORMANCE!!!!! Not talking, not a general showing punches on TV sending millions to his son every week....PERFORMANCE for the POEPLE!!!! And you can never bullshiit you way with performance.
You'll be writing the same crap 10 years from now, when Pakistan will be running her third full cycle of the democratic system!!

"On article 62, the current rulers aren't eligible to run"? AMAZING.....people like you, supporting dictatorship refer to the "CONSTITUTION" :dance3: WOW!!! Dictators becoming "democratic"!!!!! By the ENTIRE freaking constitution and EVERY single article in it, the military has NO business outside of the GHQ and the cantonments. Unless called by the Premier of Pakistan or the Governor of a local State, or face an external War like threat !!!!! How about you remain where you belong because the system will continue.

Pakistan's five year economic plan which Pakistan was implementing was developed under Military dictator Ayub Khan.

I was designing the F-22 Raptor in 1960's on a paper............and then I lost the paper :cry: :cray::close_tema:!!!! How about we focus on the more recent times of the past 10-15 years that matter the most with regards to where Pakistan is today, in 2015? And not go back to "once upon a time there was an economic plan", and btw, it didn't produce shiit!!!!! But there is a LOT of talk about it.

Pakistan and her PEOPLE need RESULTS, not talk, not how great a plan put on a book once looked about 50 years ago. And that means, majority of the people from that era are probably dead anyway as the average age in Pakistan was 49-50 till a couple of days ago. Come forward by like 3-4 decades.... so its relevant to the topic please?
 
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Simple answer: Civilians make the policies and priorities, the military and all other institutes execute those. They follow orders and are doing their job. No need to over glorify stuff when that's their job!!!!

The 60 years of darkness, where ordinary Pakistani's couldn't get a DIME worth of benefit from the military rule, is a pure example. Now add the crazy mess of militancy sponsored by the military inside Pakistan and outside.......has literally put Pakistan behind by decades, compared to where the world is today!! The military needs to find a happy place for herself, otherwise her work and efforts in curbing down terrorism will also be overlooked by the same people they wanted to over glorify themselves. In other words, do your job for your country, not to show power!!




How come Mushy didn't deal with this "problem"? Instead, he distributed more weapons to his buddy Altaf???? Kiyan just did a plea bargain for over 6 billion rupees he made in corruption.....Mushy's son has hundreds of millions of dollars worth of investments in the US since 2004 (WOT payments), all other core commanders and generals were given residences in Turkey and the UK worth millions (bribe).

And here you and a few people are. Trying to over glorify shiit that someone is FINALLY fixing,and it was started by the previous Army Generals??? Who is fixing it? The new Army general who doesn't agree with the previous ones. But does it mean that he be put on the display for popularity...while he is JUST doing his job??? Do you want your doctor to be nominated for the Guinness book of world records, or some big popularity thing in Pakistan, every treats your headache, diarrhea or Flu? No, that's insane. He is JUST doing his job. Similarly, the bullet proof sedans, the brand spanking new 5 series BMW's and all, are given to the Army Chiefs to DO their JOB!!!! Stop over glorifying them please!!

Any governor in the US (where you live), will call in National Guards and or whatever branch of military he needs to maintain order (St. Louis as an example last year). You think the US generals come on tv and over glorify the military, when the US military (On the orders of the President of the United State) is constantly doing operations across the GLOBE. Remember, the US military is involved across the globe, not in 4 tiny provinces of Pakistan!!!! But in the US military's case, who came on the Podium and announced the capture of OBL? And other events as such? The President of the US!! He gets the credit for whatever the military does and achieves national security goals. No matter how many thousands of soldiers were sent, the Commander-in-Chief gets the credit. I hope you are following me. Similarly, NS gets the credit. IK made a statement yesterday that for Zarb-Azb, NS gets full credit (I can't believe I am agreeing with IK for the first time, but its a good start).


Also, on corruption, WHO is corrupted and not doing what they are supposed to do? The Civilian system has made strides. Who brought your economy back? Who initiated the privatization and policy reforms on economy and investments? Who is trying to increase the tax net? Who is providing for the Zarb-Azb funding? Who even came UP with the idea of a full operation? WTH does a military general know about economy and policies?

Who has forced India to finally "TALK" when Modi was hell bent in starting a limited conflict with Pakistan to "teach them a lesson'?? Who brought Russians in, got their investments and bought weapons from them ( think about how Pakistani's used to think about Russia, Russia was India's best buddy and still is to the majority of the degree). Again, WTH does a military general know about negotiations, economy and policies?

If the great nation of Pakistan is SO much better under the military rule....then why these military rule followers have flags of the US and Canada and the UK as you all live here? :yahoo: :o: o_O. Why not live in your own paradise called Pakistan under the military regime and "enjoy" the greatness RS brings to you?

Why sit in countries like the US, enjoy everything and all the benefits our country's DEMOCRATIC system has to offer to you, and YET support dictatorship elsewhere? Double faced much???? BAM!! THAT was my point.

Support the growth of Pakistan so it can BECOME like a mini America one day, a democratic system with opportunity for all, peace, love and mutual economic benefits for all, for her citizens and for Americans, Russians, Indians, and everyone else who live outside of Pakistan.

Or, everyone supporting the military rule and dictatorship should go back and live in the heaven on earth called Pakistan UNDER the dictatorship as you so love it and want it. You can't sit in a peaceful and democratic society and push anarchy and dictatorship down 200 million Pakistani's throats!!

Do you even have much knowledge about Pakistan? Military ruled Pakistan 60 years? You sure? You're keep repeating the same thing in different words. So I have to give similar answer. As I said earlier stop blaming Raheel Sharif for past COAS. When rest of them were not doing what they supposed to do & this man in a blue moon is accommodating with civilians. He deserves all this appreciation. What could we have done, if he was following the same footstep? And the call of operation Zarb e Azb wasn't the decision of NS, sir. According to my knowledge and information, it was COAS's decision and NS had no other option than agreeing on it & I esteem it. You're keep talking about funding this operation. It's required for the government to fund it. It's not for army's personal benefit.
Andddd you started personal attack. *clap*. Living in USA doesn't make one stop uttering his/her thoughts. Or interpretation of the situation. And who talked about supporting dictatorship???????? Double face? HAHAHAHA. :D yeah sure sure whatever you think. :)
Also, don't compare Pakistan and USA. Both are in very different situations. One is supporting all these extremists groups and one is fighting.
 
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Corrupt & Incompetent Govt., spineless Judiciary, sold out media & foreign NGO's are the biggest obstacle in the way of Pakistan from achieving peace & prosperous Pakistan & the same are obstacle in the way of PA.
 
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I was designing the F-22 Raptor in 1960's on a paper............and then I lost the paper :cry: :cray::close_tema:!!!! How about we focus on the more recent times of the past 10-15 years that matter the most with regards to where Pakistan is today, in 2015? And not go back to "once upon a time there was an economic plan", and btw, it didn't produce shiit!!!!! But there is a LOT of talk about it.

Pakistan and her PEOPLE need RESULTS, not talk, not how great a plan put on a book once looked about 50 years ago. And that means, majority of the people from that era are probably dead anyway as the average age in Pakistan was 49-50 till a couple of days ago. Come forward by like 3-4 decades.... so its relevant to the topic please?

Well, you asked to show you some growth policy that was developed under military rule in last 60 years so i pointed out Ayub's Era. :D
 
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Do you even have much knowledge about Pakistan? Military ruled Pakistan 60 years? You sure? You're keep repeating the same thing in different words. So I have to give similar answer. As I said earlier stop blaming Raheel Sharif for past COAS. When rest of them were not doing what they supposed to do & this man in a blue moon is accommodating with civilians. He deserves all this appreciation. What could we have done, if he was following the same footstep? And the call of operation Zarb e Azb wasn't the decision of NS, sir. According to my knowledge and information, it was COAS's decision and NS had no other option than agreeing on it & I esteem it. You're keep talking about funding this operation. It's required for the government to fund it. It's not for army's personal benefit.
Andddd you started personal attack. *clap*. Living in USA doesn't make one stop uttering his/her thoughts. Or interpretation of the situation. And who talked about supporting dictatorship???????? Double face? HAHAHAHA. :D yeah sure sure whatever you think. :)
Also, don't compare Pakistan and USA. Both are in very different situations. One is supporting all these extremists groups and one is fighting.

Lady - You have no clue about what happens in Pakistan. Learning from places like PDF and a few emotional household discussions, don't give you the reality and I am JUST seeing third hand propaganda in your posts and "opinions". You've not provided anything credible or factual so far. So how about you continue on with your "opinions".

Just to address the post above:
1) I personally know RS very well. I don't know where you saw me "blaming" him for good work........and may be that's how you guys take everything " as a blame". All I am saying is, RS is doing great work. But this isn't anything out of the ordinary any patriot Army Chief wouldn't do. So appreciate it, don't make that appreciation seem like a fixation or worship if you will. I think you can understand my point.
Had his previous Army Chiefs done their work, he wouldn't be so involved with everything. But the military has been focused on everything included getting their nose into running the country without any positive impact worth a dollar. So this is what you get. But RS is a strong guy, he can handle it.

2) Yes, the military has ruled Pakistan for about 50-60 years. About 40+ directly and about 15+ indirectly by installing incapable PM's who couldn't spell the word "Prime Minister" properly. Let alone be one and do anything for people. There is no doubt about this in anyone's mind, Pakistan's military is directly responsible for where Pakistan is today. Both from a terrorism expansion and being a country that almost went bankrupt!!!!! And trust me, I don't have the Pak Army, as I've met plenty of your Arny Chiefs starting from Zia!!!! I am JUST stating the truth.

3) The Zarb-Azb was all NS's idea ( minus the name), in fact, this operation was conceptualized during a China visit when NS got a verbal go ahead from the Chinese for an initial $ 20 billion investment into the power sector and some highway work (phase I to Gawader). At that time, the Chinese wanted more stability before doing anything in Pakistan. The Chinese also wanted NS's personal guarantee that their money won't be lost due to a parliament change or a military coupe. Based on which, he created a strategy and a road-map after consulting the military.

At that time, the military had gotten way behind with finances, money and weapons as Pakistan was so close to bankrupt. In the senior Pakistani military leadership, it was predicted that a war with India was inevitable as India knew Pakistani Army's internal situation and that it can't fight a battle due to not having finances to buy more weapons, spares, salaries, etc. In one of the Corps Commander's meeting, it was projected that the only way to preserve a stronger deterrent, was to ensure proper flow of finances to buy materials. Otherwise, any short wars would be a loss. This was then shared with NS. RS had personally asked him that what could he do to help the military. The result was an immediate billion dollar infusion into the Pakistani government by KSA per NS's personal request, majority of which went to help Army spend funds on many projects, including the "slowed down" JFT!!!!

RS and NS had met a few times to hash out a strategy. NS asked RS to do a feasibility study on a larger scale operation that could bring about peace within a year. RS was concerned with India as such large operations would use majority of the military available, into FATA, Baluchistan and Sindh.

NS assured RS that he'll handle India till 2016 at the least and hopefully the relations will get better going forward. This agreement saw a new height after the IK's sit-ins when a few ex-generals tried to frame RS and tried to cause a serious crack between RS and NS. But both the Shariffs worked it out and the result was a visit from the Chinese premier announcing $ 46 billion worth of investments (increased after the Army told NS that they have no reason to want power and the Chinese were a witness in that discussion). RS has also told NS to bring about an economic change and that NS will never be bothered by the military. RS and NS both wanted to grow the country and that's what its all about. People like you, are trying VERY hard to show things otherwise, but its not working. IK and his people (including you) tried their best too. But the Shariffs are in touch very closely. In fact, this may be the first time in Pakistan's history that a Civil and Military partnership is working out exceptionally well.

Now please do me a favor, I am sure you can read above and the depth of my knowledge and events I am WELL aware of. Please don't come back with IK like stupidity and propaganda arguments. If you have some facts, do share them. If you don't, then don't worry about it.

On the last personal thing, I don't get personal. I meant every word I said. If you think that Pakistan is such a heaven under the military rule, then why the millions left the country each time there was the military rule. As the propaganda has it, (and powered by US dollars during each dictator's time due to wars), that the best time has been under the dictators economically. Then, the people fleeing Pakistan should've become rich and there was no need for you to move to the US?? I won't ever go work in Germany or France, if I have good employment and career aspects in the US. Same goes for everyone else. This is a fact, its not personal.
Last, you are sitting inside the US, enjoying our democratic system and values, and a stable system that gives you opportunity. But wishing and pushing dictatorship on Pakistan, how effing stupid that is???? Don't you wish your country can grow like a mini US one day? And you obviously know the US ain't no dictatorship. So naturally, Pakistan has to follow the democratic path to get to the level where US is. The real democracy hasn't even seen ten years yet and you want to impose back the 60 years worth of military brutality all over again? The little progress Pakistan is making,will go down the drain. Do you go to a Dentist when you have pain in your Chest or in your Tummy? Hope the point sticks!!

Well, you asked to show you some growth policy that was developed under military rule in last 60 years so i pointed out Ayub's Era. :D


Strategies were built under Zia, Mushy and all....but they were strategies on paper. No results to the people of Pakistan. A strategy produces results. Show me the results where even as little as 1 million population got long term benefits of a strategy and helped the country's economy!!
 
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We are talking about a specific person right now. With my knowledge our last COAS was not fulfilling his duty and now we can't blame for this all to Mr. Raheel Sharif. Yes I agree with you for prosecuting all those corrupted officers. But at the moment people are praying more focus on COAS's performance. There's a saying in Urdu, "dobatay ko tinke ka sahara". (Drowning man catches at straw). Gen. Raheel sharif is that straw for Pakistanis. :)
As an outsider and what media has reported in my country, General Kayani was well respected. He was praised for his handling of Pakistan's internal situation and external like Afghanistan. He also showed respect to democracy. PA did launch campaigns against militants and it was successful, as reported.
Are you saying Mr Kayani failed?

There was an article posted on PDF. It mentioned that when Mr kayani was in Power, everyone was full of praise for him. People were praising PA for its achievements as well. But now no one want to take his name. Same thing seems to be with Mr Sharif. Now when a new COAS come over. Mr Sharif would get the same treatment as his predecessor ?
 
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I think Fox news should come ask me about Foreign Relations, I might correct their heads that are usually stuck in 1960's America ruled by just White people. I hope this answers your questions. I don't just watch news and learn about places. I guaranteed know more about Pakistan than you. I am willing to put a $ 20.00 bet on it.

Sorry, you lost the bet already, you didn't know that Military in Pakistan ruled for 34 odd years. its not 60.
A few hours ago, Mr. Chandio and Mr. Nisar was on the phone for 30 minutes. And CM Sindh is threaten NS's party to impose the Governor rule if they can. He called Zardari five hours ago. I think Zardari was in KSA!!!!! Tell me if Fox or any news is as real time as I am :rofl:

oh what a real time reporting, tell me NS is farting right now? how does it smell like?

This is bullshiit. Indians didn't have everyone with a PHD in something for the past 70 years. The Americans weren't all holding Masters degree for the past 300 years either. To add "education" is like you telling a cop "I passed the driving test (which means reading through laws), and I still cut the red light because I didn't go to college" :yahoo: :rofl:. That would get you a ticket and the cop will call you names.

The democracies didn't come about with everyone holding a top notch degree. They came about when the PEOPLE felt the need to live peacefully with basic rights. You don't have to have a PHD to be democratic. This whole education shit is bullshit.

Because of independent Election commission genius, indian election commission stopped around 2700 politicians disqualifying them to run for elections. how many has Pakistani election commission disqualified. Mind you, your 95% parliamentarians are ineligible to even run for elections.

The democracy IS flourishing in Pakistan. The work that has started, has NEVER been done in the 60 dark years of military history.

OMG! now i am really starting to feel you are some die hard noonie who must have suffered when NS was in exile. And. see again 60 years . :-)

So right here, tells you where the blame is. The MILITARY fukked it up for the entire country, didn't let institutions setup, oppressed people, didn't create ANY forward looking policies, didn't create ANY need estimates and didn't create any new jobs, projects, etc. And when it let citizens come into power in the 90's through force, the military STILL kept wrapping up the carpet.

The military made tremendous wrong calls and did corruption. Who militarizes their OWN country???? Who supports a terrorist organization like Taliban and calls it a "strategic depth"???? Who supports another terrorist organization called MQM and makes these target killer bastards above the law???? All these were mistakes made by the military.

There has been a saying lately, where there is jangla, there must be a ganja. billions of rupees earned by NS and company from these metro bus projects and this is just one instance. And you are casting finger on military rulers? you forgot about zardari. Mr. 110 percent. In transparency international ratings, Pakistan was always better in times of Military rulers then so called false democaratic leaders who are only a bye product of filth ridden, subservient and incompetent election commission

So why democracy couldn't survivice in Pakistan? Because generals with boots didn't want to. Today, its different. If these generals with boots want to take away the democracy, they should be ready to have a starving Army and India will break you with horses and cannons from the 1800's. A military without funding is just a bunch of people sitting around and chilling around their "tanks" that won't work without money.And the money is funded by a civil government who finds opportunities like the CPEC.

Only a noonie can give this piece of logic that if military does this, we will invite indians to destroy Pakistan, such is their sense of patriotism. Pakistan is not in 1800s. Had we been like you think us to be, we would have been like iraq, syria and libya long time ago. indians can try their luck if they want to.

On Taxes, Warren Buffet (the richest man in America), just threw a speech, and mentioned how 300 families in the US control like 70% of the Wealth and paid less than 10% taxes on their income. And he compared this tax rate to his Maid's tax rate. But, these people create millions of job and continue to legally invest into other business so their tax rates will be cheaper.

"LEGALLY!" have you read this word in your statement mentioned in warren's quote.

Who cares how rich who is? Whoever is elected, needs to finish 5 years as elected by the people and dictated by the constitution. After the 5 years, people should see what they did. If they did corruption and what not, take them to the court, get them to go to trail and on jail. That's your right. But don't fukk over your country while a system is in flight.

Wrong! we care how elected person got elected and how he has become so rich. if you are advocating an illegally elected person, then you have no right to question "illegal" takeovers.

Democracy isn't successful in Pakistan because 550K soldiers, and their friends and families think they are the ONLY loyal party to Pakistan and they can suppress 200 million people's voting rights and put Marshall Law. That's the reason Why democracy isn't successful. But at this time, the work being done for the PEOPLE by their elected government, is MORE than what has been done in ALL 70 years of Pakistan's life. So you can see what a democratic system works when people are elected and have a vision!!

Not only soldiers but most of them my dear. And " 70 years of Pakistan's existence" . Come on mate, drink some cold water ur BP is running high thats why i told you to be concise instead of writing long essays. Pakistan has existed for 68 years.

:rofl: My views represent the reality. And that is, the military has virtually destroyed Pakistan's world standing, has militarized it for decades, has never let a system to be established.

My views also account for the work that the Pakistani people need done. In the 3 years of the current government, there is MORE work being delivered than in the past 70 years of Pakistan's life. Go beat that. This is the measuring stick. PERFORMANCE!!!!! Not talking, not a general showing punches on TV sending millions to his son every week....PERFORMANCE for the POEPLE!!!! And you can never bullshiit you way with performance.
You'll be writing the same crap 10 years from now, when Pakistan will be running her third full cycle of the democratic system!!

Hysterical. what a performance and that too in BOLD LETTERS.

"On article 62, the current rulers aren't eligible to run"? AMAZING.....people like you, supporting dictatorship refer to the "CONSTITUTION" :dance3: WOW!!! Dictators becoming "democratic"!!!!! By the ENTIRE freaking constitution and EVERY single article in it, the military has NO business outside of the GHQ and the cantonments. Unless called by the Premier of Pakistan or the Governor of a local State, or face an external War like threat !!!!! How about you remain where you belong because the system will continue.

No no dont change the question, answer it. ok leave it. i will answer you, the article 62 of constitution deals with eligibility and ineligibility of a citizen of Pakistan who can or cannot run for elections. your beloved NS and his lot seriously default on the pre-requisites. But, he is our constitutionally elected PM. I dont buy this farce and you are buying it for reasons only know to u.

LASTLY, there is a lot about you that meets the "I". Dont boast off unless you know every person on this forum. Who knows the person you talking to turns out to be your boss in reality.
 
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The FACT that most Pakistanis think he is a Savior in itself is a big achievement.

Means Pakistan stands AGAINST TERRORISM and radicalism and not for it. this is the most crucial of all differences.

As an outsider and what media has reported in my country, General Kayani was well respected. He was praised for his handling of Pakistan's internal situation and external like Afghanistan. He also showed respect to democracy. PA did launch campaigns against militants and it was successful, as reported.
Are you saying Mr Kayani failed?

There was an article posted on PDF. It mentioned that when Mr kayani was in Power, everyone was full of praise for him. People were praising PA for its achievements as well. But now no one want to take his name. Same thing seems to be with Mr Sharif. Now when a new COAS come over. Mr Sharif would get the same treatment as his predecessor ?

comparing two different things will get us no where.

Kiyani was praised for two things only. His non interference in politics and his stand against india which was planning "surgical strikes and cold start" type of nonsense.
 
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Strategies were built under Zia, Mushy and all....but they were strategies on paper. No results to the people of Pakistan. A strategy produces results. Show me the results where even as little as 1 million population got long term benefits of a strategy and helped the country's economy!!

In Ayub era, our currency was stronger and economy touched Boom point. Pakistan was a Donor State in Ayub Khan's era, lent Rs120 million to West Germany in 1963 for development. Anyway, I found the article of IBA , a prestigious institute of Karachi, Pakistan on Ayub's progress and its short comings. It may lead you to understand my point.

http://iba.edu.pk/News/speechesarticles_drishrat/Economic_policies_under_Shaoib.pdf
 
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In Ayub era, our currency was stronger and economy touched Boom point. Pakistan was a Donor State in Ayub Khan's era, lent Rs120 million to West Germany in 1963 for development.

People who were born in 1963....a huge number of which, may not be alive today as Pakistan's average age is like 48-50 years. Today is 2015, just in case you missed it. I don't need to hear a 52 year old "good story" and since then, there are dark days with overcast clouds on the entire country that finally started to go away 3 years ago!! And there haven't been any "good story" since then. The mighty generals running the show effed the country over for the majority of these 50 years that came in AFTER your little good story.
 
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Lady - You have no clue about what happens in Pakistan. Learning from places like PDF and a few emotional household discussions, don't give you the reality and I am JUST seeing third hand propaganda in your posts and "opinions". You've not provided anything credible or factual so far. So how about you continue on with your "opinions".

Just to address the post above:
1) I personally know RS very well. I don't know where you saw me "blaming" him for good work........and may be that's how you guys take everything " as a blame". All I am saying is, RS is doing great work. But this isn't anything out of the ordinary any patriot Army Chief wouldn't do. So appreciate it, don't make that appreciation seem like a fixation or worship if you will. I think you can understand my point.
Had his previous Army Chiefs done their work, he wouldn't be so involved with everything. But the military has been focused on everything included getting their nose into running the country without any positive impact worth a dollar. So this is what you get. But RS is a strong guy, he can handle it.

2) Yes, the military has ruled Pakistan for about 50-60 years. About 40+ directly and about 15+ indirectly by installing incapable PM's who couldn't spell the word "Prime Minister" properly. Let alone be one and do anything for people. There is no doubt about this in anyone's mind, Pakistan's military is directly responsible for where Pakistan is today. Both from a terrorism expansion and being a country that almost went bankrupt!!!!! And trust me, I don't have the Pak Army, as I've met plenty of your Arny Chiefs starting from Zia!!!! I am JUST stating the truth.

3) The Zarb-Azb was all NS's idea ( minus the name), in fact, this operation was conceptualized during a China visit when NS got a verbal go ahead from the Chinese for an initial $ 20 billion investment into the power sector and some highway work (phase I to Gawader). At that time, the Chinese wanted more stability before doing anything in Pakistan. The Chinese also wanted NS's personal guarantee that their money won't be lost due to a parliament change or a military coupe. Based on which, he created a strategy and a road-map after consulting the military.

At that time, the military had gotten way behind with finances, money and weapons as Pakistan was so close to bankrupt. In the senior Pakistani military leadership, it was predicted that a war with India was inevitable as India knew Pakistani Army's internal situation and that it can't fight a battle due to not having finances to buy more weapons, spares, salaries, etc. In one of the Corps Commander's meeting, it was projected that the only way to preserve a stronger deterrent, was to ensure proper flow of finances to buy materials. Otherwise, any short wars would be a loss. This was then shared with NS. RS had personally asked him that what could he do to help the military. The result was an immediate billion dollar infusion into the Pakistani government by KSA per NS's personal request, majority of which went to help Army spend funds on many projects, including the "slowed down" JFT!!!!

RS and NS had met a few times to hash out a strategy. NS asked RS to do a feasibility study on a larger scale operation that could bring about peace within a year. RS was concerned with India as such large operations would use majority of the military available, into FATA, Baluchistan and Sindh.

NS assured RS that he'll handle India till 2016 at the least and hopefully the relations will get better going forward. This agreement saw a new height after the IK's sit-ins when a few ex-generals tried to frame RS and tried to cause a serious crack between RS and NS. But both the Shariffs worked it out and the result was a visit from the Chinese premier announcing $ 46 billion worth of investments (increased after the Army told NS that they have no reason to want power and the Chinese were a witness in that discussion). RS has also told NS to bring about an economic change and that NS will never be bothered by the military. RS and NS both wanted to grow the country and that's what its all about. People like you, are trying VERY hard to show things otherwise, but its not working. IK and his people (including you) tried their best too. But the Shariffs are in touch very closely. In fact, this may be the first time in Pakistan's history that a Civil and Military partnership is working out exceptionally well.

Now please do me a favor, I am sure you can read above and the depth of my knowledge and events I am WELL aware of. Please don't come back with IK like stupidity and propaganda arguments. If you have some facts, do share them. If you don't, then don't worry about it.

On the last personal thing, I don't get personal. I meant every word I said. If you think that Pakistan is such a heaven under the military rule, then why the millions left the country each time there was the military rule. As the propaganda has it, (and powered by US dollars during each dictator's time due to wars), that the best time has been under the dictators economically. Then, the people fleeing Pakistan should've become rich and there was no need for you to move to the US?? I won't ever go work in Germany or France, if I have good employment and career aspects in the US. Same goes for everyone else. This is a fact, its not personal.
Last, you are sitting inside the US, enjoying our democratic system and values, and a stable system that gives you opportunity. But wishing and pushing dictatorship on Pakistan, how effing stupid that is???? Don't you wish your country can grow like a mini US one day? And you obviously know the US ain't no dictatorship. So naturally, Pakistan has to follow the democratic path to get to the level where US is. The real democracy hasn't even seen ten years yet and you want to impose back the 60 years worth of military brutality all over again? The little progress Pakistan is making,will go down the drain. Do you go to a Dentist when you have pain in your Chest or in your Tummy? Hope the point sticks!!




Strategies were built under Zia, Mushy and all....but they were strategies on paper. No results to the people of Pakistan. A strategy produces results. Show me the results where even as little as 1 million population got long term benefits of a strategy and helped the country's economy!!

You start your reply with passing a judgment & no point to explain my point then. Have a good one.
 
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The whole militancy in Pakistan was created by the foolish policies of Pakistan Army and ISI itself. Cleaning up your own created mess is no big accomplishment !
typical example of an ungrateful afghan . we've ruined ourselves for this biradar Islami mulk and that is how they are paying us.
 
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