THE F16 DILLEMA---PAF HAS GONE TOO FAR--NO MORE F16's PLEASE

[帅的一匹]

Why should we? We have an independent foreign policy, and we want our weapons supplied at crucial stages without sanctions. Can US guarantee that? Nope. That's why we are banking on Rafale, an aircraft with less US components.

Second, we wont have gone for F16 (now) even if US was friendly. Our main strategy rolls on twin engine fighters, maybe most probably F15 or F18.

During the 1980's, if the US had offered India, the F16, IAF would have goppled that with open mouth's. The geopolitical situation was different then. Now we have aircrafts more advanced than F16 available.

The difference now is , we can choose dishes from the menu.

I highly suspicious about the effectiveness of Those bought weapon , the current sortie rate of S30MKI is below 55%?!

If Pakistan have war with India, the F16 is consuming at incredible speed. PAF asks for more F16 or components but USA deny it. PAF ask China for J10c for replenishment ,and the PAF pilots don't even know how to fly it. Has anyone even thought about it? You shall at least got a back up plan?! For god sake.

Pakistan lacks strategy planning, that's it.

Chasing for F16 is filling the gap, it don't fit the long term plan. You bet your stake in Yankee, you will be pathetic in the end. Just refer to the Chinese USA relationship in the 1980s, they throw you into garbage bin if your are not useful anymore.

My suggestion is that PAF inducts 36 J10c and ask every elite pilots fly it. If a break out , they can fly J10c to kill enemy anytime they receive the plane.

You need a back up plan, that's very important. Strategy planning is always on the top priority.

I'm not here to promote J10c, I'm very worry about Paksitan's situation as a close friend to you. Really worries!

JF17 can't replace the role of J10c, be it in range , payload, aerodynamics, EW, avionics.

That's my last post in this thread, period!

 

[Syed Hussain]

My suggestion is that PAF inducts 36 J10c and ask every elite pilots fly it. If a break out , they can fly J10c to kill enemy anytime they receive the plane.

@MastanKhan now that's an interesting point. Even a small fleet of J-10s would be of much avail because it could provide the pilots with necessary training and skill and you will have the option of "lease of resources" from a "trustworthy ally" to counter a "common enemy".

 

[Nav]

Hi,
I don't know whats going through the mind of higher command, but pakistan should lessen the depend on US coz of their reliability in times of need... I think pakistan is opting for J-31 for the future fleet

 

[Guynextdoor2]

@MastanKhan you actually have a point here.....this is an INCREDIBLE play that Indian policy makers play

-first wait till you get all worked up about F 16 and want it really bad
- get some lawmakers in the US to stop delivery after you pay money
- This gets your people all worked up - it's not abut the fighter jet anymore, it's about 'we sacrificed so much and America is betraying us'
- Then we get you Soya beans in return for jets
- Then repeat the whole thing again

Somewhere along the way you people forget that F 16 is not the only jet in town and you should have dropped the potato a long time ago before said jet became obsolete. Way back in 1980s it may have been like the Su 30 of today, but in 2015 you're still stuck with getting F 16 narrative.

This is a very accurately played game taking into account both your defence thinking and public sentiment as well as enormous political and dimplomatic clout in he US. All in all a greeeeeaaaaattt work by our policy makers.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I am off the view that some high ups in PAF are getting lots of greenbucks on insisting over F-16 all these years. Otherwise, this F-16 saga is simply not worth nation`s time, energy, resources and more importantly its honor. These F-16 shouldnt give any so called American congressmen excuses to bad mouth Pakistan. Either consider this as a transaction between state to state or just f off. We are not here to hear all the irrelevant non sense.

 

[CHI RULES]

Searching for answers ..... Old Love affair hai aasani se ni jai ga



But still China is operating them in 00's you can say... also upgrading
Numbers Build = 400
Operational in Chinese Air force= 240+
Operational in Chinese Naval Air Force = 24 +
Status as of February 2014.....

U may afford such issues in large numbers like SU30 also but in case of Pak the case is different.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I highly suspicious about the effectiveness of Those bought weapon , the current sortie rate of S30MKI is below 55%?!

If Pakistan have war with India, the F16 is consuming at incredible speed. PAF asks for more F16 or components but USA deny it. PAF ask China for J10c for replenishment ,and the PAF pilots don't even know how to fly it. Has anyone even thought about it? You shall at least got a back up plan?! For god sake.

Pakistan lacks strategy planning, that's it.

Chasing for F16 is filling the gap, it don't fit the long term plan. You bet your stake in Yankee, you will be pathetic in the end. Just refer to the Chinese USA relationship in the 1980s, they throw you into garbage bin if your are not useful anymore.

My suggestion is that PAF inducts 36 J10c and ask every elite pilots fly it. If a break out , they can fly J10c to kill enemy anytime they receive the plane.

You need a back up plan, that's very important. Strategy planning is always on the top priority.

I'm not here to promote J10c, I'm very worry about Paksitan's situation as a close friend to you. Really worries!

JF17 can't replace the role of J10c, be it in range , payload, aerodynamics, EW, avionics.

That's my last post in this thread, period!

Su 30 issues have been resolved, and actual technicians are on the field. By the end of 2016, Su30 servicability will be 75%.
The option for PAF is to stock spares. Cos everytime they start a "war" and I have seen Pakistanis brag about it here. Let them stock it.
Even if not, Turkey can sell them. J10C is an unknown quantity. What do u think Pakistan will allow its elite pilots to fly it? We do not even know about it other than Chinese claims. Will I trust an proven platform or an platform begging for attention?

 

[MastanKhan]

i think J10c is at least equal to F16 blk 60, I have very strong confidence in J10c. It's cheaper and cost effective. To Those who claim that J10c is only 50% capability of F16, I'm just laughing at the ignorance. Whatever, best wish to PAF. Wish there is no sanction when you engaged with You r enemy. Still lots of elite class in Pakistan more pro American than Chinese, we shall wait and see the consequence.

A friend in need is a friend in deed.

Hi,

People are so thoughtless when they comment that the J10C is 50% of BLK60---that is outrageous---because others are claing that the JF17 BLK 3 with aesa and other nice gadgets would be between the BLK52 and BLK 60

@MastanKhan now that's an interesting point. Even a small fleet of J-10s would be of much avail because it could provide the pilots with necessary training and skill and you will have the option of "lease of resources" from a "trustworthy ally" to counter a "common enemy".

Hi,

Thank you for your comments----there are always simple solutions to complex problems---. It is only because of us and our mindset that we refuse to consider them.

The potency of the F16 cannot be undersold---in its most upgraded form---it is one of the deadliest aircraft in its class.

Just because it turned 42---does not mean that it is 42. That age is relative to human being----the newly upgrade B52 bomber has gadgets and gismos and strike power that the 60 years old aircraft could not even imagine in its wildest dreams----.

But then it would be still flying for another 30 years ( the B52 ). But that is not the only criteria to procure an aircraft.

This a weapon of war---and its availability and function needs to be without any restrictions and constraints from any source---and as it is the primary weapon of war---there is absolutely no reason to have any contingencies attached.

At this stage---whomsoever makes a decision to procure more new F16's----is being treasonous to the state of pakistan. That decision maker is not a well wisher of pakistan---and pakistan's security is not paramount to him.

The time has come and gone for the new F16's for pakistan.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Even if not, Turkey can sell them. J10C is an unknown quantity. What do u think Pakistan will allow its elite pilots to fly it? We do not even know about it other than Chinese claims. Will I trust an proven platform or an platform begging for attention?

May be they already flew it... who knows as they flew Chinese Flankers.... Plus PAF should know about J-10 cause they have exercise with em many times...... So PAF knows about the Platform

 

[Oracle 33]

F16 is the right choice as they are facing Russian Sukhois and PAF has excellent experience with pilots and weapon continuity. PAF has a budget and they made the best choice for the 'current time'.

 

[MastanKhan]

May be they already flew it... who knows as they flew Chinese Flankers.... Plus PAF should know about J-10 cause they have exercise with em many times...... So PAF knows about the Platform

Hi,

They have already flown it---many a times.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

May be they already flew it... who knows as they flew Chinese Flankers.... Plus PAF should know about J-10 cause they have exercise with em many times...... So PAF knows about the Platform

Flying an platform doesnt make pilots experts on it. In that case Singapore AF has an entire squadron of F16 placed in India for atleast 8 months an year. We ride and practise in it, but doesnt make IAF pilots experts of that machine.

Hours behind that machine is important.

 

[batmannow]

I highly suspicious about the effectiveness of Those bought weapon , the current sortie rate of S30MKI is below 55%?!

If Pakistan have war with India, the F16 is consuming at incredible speed. PAF asks for more F16 or components but USA deny it. PAF ask China for J10c for replenishment ,and the PAF pilots don't even know how to fly it. Has anyone even thought about it? You shall at least got a back up plan?! For god sake.

Pakistan lacks strategy planning, that's it.

Chasing for F16 is filling the gap, it don't fit the long term plan. You bet your stake in Yankee, you will be pathetic in the end. Just refer to the Chinese USA relationship in the 1980s, they throw you into garbage bin if your are not useful anymore.

My suggestion is that PAF inducts 36 J10c and ask every elite pilots fly it. If a break out , they can fly J10c to kill enemy anytime they receive the plane.

You need a back up plan, that's very important. Strategy planning is always on the top priority.

I'm not here to promote J10c, I'm very worry about Paksitan's situation as a close friend to you. Really worries!

JF17 can't replace the role of J10c, be it in range , payload, aerodynamics, EW, avionics.

That's my last post in this thread, period!

shouldn't be your last post , should be the frist !
We need you my friend !

F16 is the right choice as they are facing Russian Sukhois and PAF has excellent experience with pilots and weapon continuity. PAF has a budget and they made the best choice for the 'current time'.

you are wrong buddy , F-16 are wrong choice for PAF in 2016 , we have enough of it , & we have nearly matching machine by our own which call thunder ?
We don't need the dam F-16s anymore , we need flankers to hit iron with iron .

 

[Oracle 33]

shouldn't be your last post , should be the frist !
We need you my friend !


you are wrong buddy , F-16 are wrong choice for PAF in 2016 , we have enough of it , & we have nearly matching machine by our own which call thunder ?
We don't need the dam F-16s anymore , we need flankers to hit iron with iron .

You already operate the F16 the flankers would need a whole new infrastructure as well as training and weapons, is that a option?

 

[niaz]

War is a very serious matter and war equipment needs have to be looked at purely objectively excluding any emotions or personal likes & dislikes.

Pakistan needs to modernize her air force and acquire what is called ‘Minimum deterrence’ level. This has to be done within the financial & political constraints. Thunder is okay but it does not quite match the overall performance of F-16 & comparable aircrafts.

Now let us look at ‘STATE OF THE ART’ non stealth aircrafts in the world. We have Typhoon, Raphael, latest models of Flanker (Su-30 Mk 1 & Su-35), latest models of F-16 & F-18, Chinese J10/J20 and possibly latest model of Grippen.

Pakistan tried to acquire Grippen a few years back but failed due to Grippen being powered by the US engines. India has already opted for the Rafael hence France is unlikely to sell it to us. It is also doubtful that even if Pakistan could afford it, Europeans would sell Typhoon to the PAF.

This leaves us with newer version of F-16 & F-18, Su-35 & Chinese J-20. Remember that threat of sanctions exists for all Western military hardware and possibly for the Russian material as well. In these circumstances, it is logical that having had 25 years of experience in maintaining & operating it and being a battle proven aircraft; in PAF’s thinking latest versions of F-16 provide the most bang for the buck.

Now that F-16’s are being denied, PAF has no option but to go for the J-10/J-20 series. Let us sincerely hope that when push comes to shove, Chinese fighters prove to be at least as capable as F-16 Block 60.