THE F16 DILLEMA---PAF HAS GONE TOO FAR--NO MORE F16's PLEASE

[TOPGUN]

I really do think that if we are unable to get any further vipers new or used then till we have to wait few years for the 5th gen PAF then for now we must close the gap with FC-20's simply no other choice.

 

[CHI RULES]

I really do think that if we are unable to get any further vipers new or used then till we have to wait few years for the 5th gen PAF then for now we must close the gap with FC-20's simply no other choice.

Sir J10 facing serious engine issues just like Indian Su30, Fc20 is export version so if we go for it then we should also choose reliable engine.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

than why are we so crazy about F-Shola ?
Saalay khassi rafale ko tu maar nai sakte ...

Searching for answers ..... Old Love affair hai aasani se ni jai ga

Sir J10 facing serious engine issues just like Indian Su30, Fc20 is export version so if we go for it then we should also choose reliable engine.

But still China is operating them in 00's you can say... also upgrading
Numbers Build = 400
Operational in Chinese Air force= 240+
Operational in Chinese Naval Air Force = 24 +
Status as of February 2014.....

 

[rockstar08]

Searching for answers ..... Old Love affair hai aasani se ni jai ga

i think we should work as " Muhalay ki Khala " and make sure PAF divorce F-shola ..

 

[Muhammad Omar]

i think we should work as " Muhalay ki Khala " and make sure PAF divorce F-shola ..

On PDF will it work??

 

[rockstar08]

On PDF will it work??

Mastan khan is running his Entire Campaign from PDF , so why cant we ?
koshish tu karo .. talaq karawate hai yaar .. PAF aur F-shola ki ..
rumors hai F-shola ka affair hai Typhoon ke sath ...

 

[Wolf]

Come on paf get over it. Forget F - 16s. Let it go. I would like to know what is the mechanism of deciding which aircraft to buy. Do only PAF officers decide, i mean there are a lot of experts on this forum and they have got impressive knowledge. In my view, selection of an aircraft to buy should not be a prerogative of PAF only considering the choices they have made in the past. Any acquisition must be thoroughly debated between a panel of experts consisting of both serving and retired PAF personnel, defense experts both (civil and military) along with some honest and responsible parliamentarian. The discussion obviously has to be in camera. But any unilateral decision by some PAF officers is not the way forward.

It is worth mentioning that some time ago. PAF was offered 36 J-10s for 1.3 billion dollars. It means PAF can get around 50 J-10s for 2 billion dollars. Now, compare it to our beloved F-16s. we are getting 8 for 1.5 billion dollars. As a member above mentioned. 36 J-10s vs 8 F -16s (sanction proned), only a fool can bet over F-16 in such scenario.

It is common sense that in case of american sanctions, it is highly probable that F-16s may never see action owing to spares, "kill switches", americans on Pakistani bases guarding F-16s to prevent their use against india. BUT, J-10s will keep flying no matter what happens. why PAF top brass keep it ignoring. No offence to the technical know how of our PAF technicians and engineers, but they should not over estimate themselves against american machines and technology that they will be able to reverse whatever americans will remotely do to F-16s.

If PAF is obsessed with induction of western high tech aircraft. Then, buy 8 Rafales as a starter. They will too cost around same amount of money or may be less. Its mind boggling since when F-16s have become 200+ million dollars a piece.

IT is strongly recommended that PAF should go for 36 J-10s for around 1.5 billion dollars immediately. Also test J-16 in case PAF is interested in double engine aircraft which will be a decision PAF wont regret. These both jets can come in large numbers in less amount of money and time. At the same time JF-17 production rate may be enhanced. After getting the decent numbers in a year or two. Go for Rafale or J-31 or J-20. Any choice of jet whose supply of spares and maintenance is not guaranteed is an extremely questionable choice and will definitely back fire in case of any future conflict.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Lets buy russian or chines aircraft...

 

[Muhammad Omar]

US why u no leave us??

US committed to supply F-16s despite Indian efforts to block delivery: Asif

PHOTO: REUTERS

Defence Minister Khawaja Asif said on Tuesday the United States is committed to supply eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan despite Indian efforts to block delivery.

“The Obama-led administration is committed to supply eight F-16 fighter jets despite efforts by India and former Pakistani ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani to block the delivery,” Asif said while addressing the National Assembly.

US set to sell eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan

The defence minister’s statement comes days after reports said the US Congress has “stalled” Obama administration’s planned sale of eight new F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan. The move was stalled as lawmakers raised questions about the end use of the combat aircraft and the relationship between the two countries itself.

“Being aware of the importance of F-16 and JF-17 jets in Operation Zarb e Azb and other anti-terrorist operations, the US is committed to supply Pakistan with eight F-16 fighter jets,” the defence minister added.

In October, the Obama administration said it is preparing to sell eight new F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, an overture intended to bolster a tenuous partnership despite persistent concerns about Islamabad’s ties to elements of the Taliban and quickly expanding nuclear arsenal.

US Congress ‘stalls’ sale of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan

Referring to Pakistan’s involvement in Saudi Arabia’s 34-state Islamic military coalition to combat terrorism, Asif said, “It is not a military alliance against any country and participation of other members is yet to be determined. The coalition is still evolving.”

Further, the minister stated that the number of cooperation agreements that Pakistan has with Saudi Arabia, it does not have the same amount with any other country.

“Pakistan is cooperating with Saudi Arabia in various sectors, including training of armed forces.”

“The two countries are currently under an agreement which includes defence cooperation, training, production of defence goods and medical training,” he said.

How can Pakistan be an effective mediator between Saudi Arabia and Iran

Currently, 1,125 officers of various ranks are in Saudi Arabia to offer training in multiple fields,” Asif told the NA session. ”It is an alliance against terrorism to highlight the real image of Muslims” he reiterated.

Addressing the query of members present in the sessions, the minister said Pakistan is working towards mending ties between Saudi Arabia and Iran. “Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited Saudi Arabia on Monday to discuss the ongoing problems with Saudi leadership, who gave the premier a positive response.”

“PM Nawaz is set to visit Iran today where he will discuss the same issues with the respective leaders,” Asif stated.


@rockstar08

 

[rockstar08]

US why u no leave us??

US committed to supply F-16s despite Indian efforts to block delivery: Asif

PHOTO: REUTERS

Defence Minister Khawaja Asif said on Tuesday the United States is committed to supply eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan despite Indian efforts to block delivery.

“The Obama-led administration is committed to supply eight F-16 fighter jets despite efforts by India and former Pakistani ambassador to the US Husain Haqqani to block the delivery,” Asif said while addressing the National Assembly.

US set to sell eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan

The defence minister’s statement comes days after reports said the US Congress has “stalled” Obama administration’s planned sale of eight new F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan. The move was stalled as lawmakers raised questions about the end use of the combat aircraft and the relationship between the two countries itself.

“Being aware of the importance of F-16 and JF-17 jets in Operation Zarb e Azb and other anti-terrorist operations, the US is committed to supply Pakistan with eight F-16 fighter jets,” the defence minister added.

In October, the Obama administration said it is preparing to sell eight new F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, an overture intended to bolster a tenuous partnership despite persistent concerns about Islamabad’s ties to elements of the Taliban and quickly expanding nuclear arsenal.

US Congress ‘stalls’ sale of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan

Referring to Pakistan’s involvement in Saudi Arabia’s 34-state Islamic military coalition to combat terrorism, Asif said, “It is not a military alliance against any country and participation of other members is yet to be determined. The coalition is still evolving.”

Further, the minister stated that the number of cooperation agreements that Pakistan has with Saudi Arabia, it does not have the same amount with any other country.

“Pakistan is cooperating with Saudi Arabia in various sectors, including training of armed forces.”

“The two countries are currently under an agreement which includes defence cooperation, training, production of defence goods and medical training,” he said.

How can Pakistan be an effective mediator between Saudi Arabia and Iran

Currently, 1,125 officers of various ranks are in Saudi Arabia to offer training in multiple fields,” Asif told the NA session. ”It is an alliance against terrorism to highlight the real image of Muslims” he reiterated.

Addressing the query of members present in the sessions, the minister said Pakistan is working towards mending ties between Saudi Arabia and Iran. “Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited Saudi Arabia on Monday to discuss the ongoing problems with Saudi leadership, who gave the premier a positive response.”

“PM Nawaz is set to visit Iran today where he will discuss the same issues with the respective leaders,” Asif stated.


@rockstar08

mai tu chilla kaat leta hun , deal cancel kerne ka

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir i have been reading that f16 is the best option because we have all the infrastructure and training support for the f16 so it will be lie plug and play.I want to ask you how long will it take to fully operate j10 c if we ever induct it ?

Hi,

Even though we have a training staff for the F16's---it depends on what pakistan would be getting---BLK52---V---or BLK61.

If it is aesa---it will take some time to integrate is as well---because now you are playing with different rules because you are in a different world as far as information coming to you is concerned.

Those saying that the J10C is like 50 % of the F16---then in reality the JF17 would be somewhere 40% of the F16's.

Getting new aircrafts and maintaining and managing the existing ones are judged on different pleateaus---. The U S may refuse the sale of the F16's but may not refuse the upkeep---that would be going too far and it won't happen.

Even used and re-furbished one could make it thru.

As for the mirage 2k's and rafale---pakistan should have looked at what kind of service they had gotten out of the mirage 3/5's. It is supposedly the only country that is operating the mirage 3/5.

Buying Rafales in 2003-04 would have been a Coupe de Grace one more time and it would have rectified the mistake of getting the F16's in the 80's.

Indians would not buy american aircraft---and there would be nothing in the market to compete with the rafale.

And instead of going for the 72 F16's at that time---32 Rafales would have done the job very nicely---. Our delays---we don't even have the 72 F16---the new ones---till now.

And indeed the final decision making must be taken away from PAF for buying an aircraft---they need to have aircraft A--B picked up---and let the state make the decision---what is more feasible and readily available.

Just like in the case of the chinese awacs and swedish ones----. Mushy made a great decision to reduce the numbers of swedish aircraft and got the chinese instead.

It would take around 5 years to integrate the J10C---. So---now is the perfect time to switch gears and head in a different direction----. The opponent is getting a new aircraft---it will take him time to integrate.

And we can have deliveries of the J10C on a fastrak. Maybe in 2 years time---we can over a sqdrn delivered.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

So--here is where we are headed---towards sanctions---. If the order goes thru now---it will take 2 years for the order to come thru---and that time period is extremely unpredictable----if sanctions hit again or if the congress votes to cancel the order---we are doomed again.

The next reason we do not need the F16's-----OFF BORE SIGHT MISSILE----. This missile is a game changer in close combat---with around approximately 180 degrees lock on capability---this missile would not be sold to us even if we got the F16's.

But we will be able to get this type of missile---the chinese version for our JF17 and if we go for the J10C---that can be equipped as well.

I dont know how much fee and upfront payments are already done for the "on hold" F-16s ... if not much or none then there is some chance of saving grace. I think we should kiss American weapons goodbye.. whatever administration comes in the white house it wont be friendly towards Pakistan so any western jet is off limit due to American pressure and American hardware like Saab.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I dont know how much fee and upfront payments are already done for the "on hold" F-16s ... if not much or none then there is some chance of saving grace. I think we should kiss American weapons goodbye.. whatever administration comes in the white house it wont be friendly towards Pakistan so any western jet is off limit due to American pressure and American hardware like Saab.

the typhoon option is open yet it's expensive. and the good thing (for us) is that most likely we are ordering the tranch 3b which will eat the rafale and any thing in the sky. the f22 beats it only due to stealth.

 

[MastanKhan]

I dont know how much fee and upfront payments are already done for the "on hold" F-16s ... if not much or none then there is some chance of saving grace. I think we should kiss American weapons goodbye.. whatever administration comes in the white house it wont be friendly towards Pakistan so any western jet is off limit due to American pressure and American hardware like Saab.

Hi,

Thank you---there is too much unpredictability on the procurement of F16's. U S policies for and against pakistan cannot be trusted---. Each member of the congress and senate has so much power---that anyone can throw a monkey wrench into the procurement----a simple delay is a death sentence.

If our air force is touting the JF17 BLK2 to be as close to the BLK 52 F 16 as possible---then by default---the JF17 BLK 3 with aesa would be far superior to the BLK 52---rather much closer to or similar to BLK V F16.

Then by default the current J10B with the upgraded electronics package is the same category as the BLK 52 F 16 and the J10C would be somewhere closer to the BLK 60.

No chinese weapons system that pakistan purchased so far---has failed pakistan. Anything procured in the last 15 years have performed way above the expectations----the F7PG's---the F22 frigates.

PAF must be gotten rid of the F 16 MAFIA----a new mindset must be introduced and a new direction given to it---and new orders to follow.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Thank you---there is too much unpredictability on the procurement of F16's. U S policies for and against pakistan cannot be trusted---. Each member of the congress and senate has so much power---that anyone can throw a monkey wrench into the procurement----a simple delay is a death sentence.

If our air force is touting the JF17 BLK2 to be as close to the BLK 52 F 16 as possible---then by default---the JF17 BLK 3 with aesa would be far superior to the BLK 52---rather much closer to or similar to BLK V F16.

Then by default the current J10B with the upgraded electronics package is the same category as the BLK 52 F 16 and the J10C would be somewhere closer to the BLK 60.

No chinese weapons system that pakistan purchased so far---has failed pakistan. Anything procured in the last 15 years have performed way above the expectations----the F7PG's---the F22 frigates.

PAF must be gotten rid of the F 16 MAFIA----a new mindset must be introduced and a new direction given to it---and new orders to follow.

strange I lost my edited post
I was talking about my ignorance of J10C, and my indifference to J10 derivatives since PAF reportedly turned down the plane.

and also wanted to mention late Tom Clancy who paid a little tribute to J10B (calling it super 10 ) and giving a detailed dog fight in a fictional fight with Chinese vs American/ Taiwanese Hornets etc. talking about Threat Vector

the typhoon option is open yet it's expensive. and the good thing (for us) is that most likely we are ordering the tranch 3b which will eat the rafale and any thing in the sky. the f22 beats it only due to stealth.

Saudis use Typhoon and I think PAF has flown it with Saudis as well as in UK when PAF team visited it. its bigger plane no?