The end of the deal, hopes, delusions and treasons

[veg]

Your forgetting both EU and US have violated the nuclear deal.

I don't know about the violation by EU, but generally they admitted Iran's positive role and showed their readiness to follow the JCPOA. Therefore, there may be some minor problems (if any), but in general they are committed.

 

[veg]

Your comment has several fundamental problems!

You separated the people in the world as moderate and fanatic, those who give concessions are moderate, and those who don't are fanatic!

Let me translate your thoughts for yourself, through an example:

A guy invades my home to steal my TV, then he asks to negotiate about my radio!

according to you, if I resist, I'm a fanatic and if I withdraw from what is mine, then I'm a moderate!

You again refuse to understand, and still for you there is only "ONE" guy in the opponent's camp who invaded you. This is the fanatic thinking where you are unable to see that Opponents camp have people with different views, and there may be many who are opposing the guy who invaded you.

I am constantly showing you the EU people who want to continue with the JCPOA, but your eyes are only able to see the TRUMP and you are blind of those EU moderates who oppose Trump.

Yes, not all is ideal. But this does not mean that one become colour blind and only see things black or white, and become unable to sense the other colours.

You said majority of Europeans are good people, and here is my answer:

1.
Decision makers and those who are negotiating with Iran are not the good ones, they are bunch of murders and war criminals.

Once again, no ideal situation exist.
There may be ups and downs, but all in all parties agreed upon JCPOA and 80% of them are following it.

2.
what is the criteria of being good? to care about animal's right, but funding (through taxes) and voting to bunch of mass murders?! some people just pretend to be good, to calm their souls and sleep calmly, to fool themselves (not anyone else)!

This is your side of story.
For western people, it is Iranian Wali Faqih system which is tyrant and oppressor and killer of thousands of innocents and usurper of the rights of the minorities like Bahais and atheists and any one who opposes their dictatorship.

This is the picture of Iran all over the world, which the Iranian conservatives are not able to comprehend.

Not only whole world, but inside Iran too the moderates are constantly complaining off and they want the reduction in powers of all such entities who don't undergo elections today (like Wali Faqih himself, and screening of the candidates etc.)

Conservatives got the power in Iran, and they went on playing "Might is Right" against the Bahais and other minorities and the opponents. But on state level, these are the Westerns who got more power and they are there to play the might is right.

3.1
Loving goodness is part of human's soul, eastern or western, but ego, self-interest and materialism can filter it or totally destroy it. that's how Jesus was killed and people didn't stop it, in that era good people were majority too. that's how today that so called majority good westerners can sleep calmly while their government is killing women and children in other countries.

Propaganda is reality.
Another reality is this that you have lost the war of propaganda.
You are not ready to reform yourself and enemy will use your wrong doings against you.

And no one has got the clean chit. Even the western leaders have to answer their people at some point.

All parties agreed upon JCPOA and Europeans showing the will to follow it.

The tactics of the Fanatics is this to come up with other issues regarding the western states, and then also deny the JCPOA.

Iranian moderates are taking the right path of making Iranian image better and diffusing the hostilities, while Iranian Fanatics don't want to be friend of European moderates, but for them whole West is evil, which should always be fought with.

This deal was a total disaster for Iran, that's why even a mad dog like netanyahu wanted to enforce it, not scrap it, is he a moderate too?!

If deal was so bad why then Trump want to end it or change it?
Natenyahoo was also crying about the deal and he also wants to end it though making changes in it.

Whole world is of opinion that deal is good for the world. These are only the Fanatics on both sides who are claiming for the deal to be bad or want to make changes in it, or want to impose other sanctions.

And deal is absolutely not bad. If you think it is bad, then you have the full right to come out of it.

Please let the Iranian people make it aware that the deal is bad. Please make the Wali Faqih also aware that the deal is bad. At moment neither Wali Faqih agrees with the Iranian conservatives, nor the Iranian people agrees with them, but they chose Rohani by giving him 58% votes.

Iran got nothing through this deal, I'm not going to repeat what I have posted in the past 38 pages, but if you have doubts, you can read the very first post of this thread, where Iranian central bank chief admits it.

Everybody knows that deal was bad for Iran.
But not going for deal would have been "WORST" for Iran and therefore Iran went for it.

 

[raptor22]

Do whatever is better for the interests of Iran.

If remaining in JCPOA is better, and still brings benefits despite US problem, then stay in it.
But if JCPOA stops bringing any benefit, then simply come out of it.

Iran fully compliance to the deal as I established in previous post is one positive step forward which has been responded inappropriately and wrongfully by other side.. JCPoA meant to make trust which unfortunately ended in more mistrust. Whether in 2004 and again now after JCPoA Iran has shown its willingness to solve and address problems by Europeans countries (England, Germany and France) through talks and diplomatic mechanisms the same experience regarding nuclear program was tested back then but every time then and now they either tried to appease the American government by following it or get permission instead of fulfilling their pledges. Actually right now Iran ain't against implementation of JCPoA if and there is a big if all sides adhere to it not one-sided profiteering ... And Iran has made it clear that it would remain in the deal as far as we benefit from it and our interests are met ..
It's time for European countries to make the tough decision.

And one thing to say your knowledge about Iran isn't that much accurate as I've read your comments and base on these wrong assumptions you judge which mostly not true ...

 

[Dinky]

I don't know about the violation by EU, but generally they admitted Iran's positive role and showed their readiness to follow the JCPOA. Therefore, there may be some minor problems (if any), but in general they are committed.

Both the EU and US have violated the agreement already. You dont know about it because the media doesnt cover it at all, they dont even cover US violations let alone the EU. Also the EU has criticized the US to not leave the deal but they haven't criticized them US for violating the conditions. Theres a difference between leaving a deal and violating a deal.

 

[mohsen]

You again refuse to understand, and still for you there is only "ONE" guy in the opponent's camp who invaded you. This is the fanatic thinking where you are unable to see that Opponents camp have people with different views, and there may be many who are opposing the guy who invaded you.


I am constantly showing you the EU people who want to continue with the JCPOA, but your eyes are only able to see the TRUMP and you are blind of those EU moderates who oppose Trump.

Yes, not all is ideal. But this does not mean that one become colour blind and only see things black or white, and become unable to sense the other colours.


Once again, no ideal situation exist.
There may be ups and downs, but all in all parties agreed upon JCPOA and 80% of them are following it.




And no one has got the clean chit. Even the western leaders have to answer their people at some point.

All parties agreed upon JCPOA and Europeans showing the will to follow it.

The tactics of the Fanatics is this to come up with other issues regarding the western states, and then also deny the JCPOA.

Iranian moderates are taking the right path of making Iranian image better and diffusing the hostilities, while Iranian Fanatics don't want to be friend of European moderates, but for them whole West is evil, which should always be fought with.




If deal was so bad why then Trump want to end it or change it?
Natenyahoo was also crying about the deal and he also wants to end it though making changes in it.

Whole world is of opinion that deal is good for the world. These are only the Fanatics on both sides who are claiming for the deal to be bad or want to make changes in it, or want to impose other sanctions.

It's you whose brain is filled with propaganda that this deal has been good for Iran. You assume that this deal is good and then based on this false assumption you say Europeans are good cause they want to preserve it.

If Europeans talk about preserving the deal, it's not because they are less hostile, it's because they are playing the good cop, bad cop along the U.S.

both US and EU have violated the deal sever times, to the extent that almost nothing has left of it. for us, sanctions are effectively in place as if there is no deal.

they violate the deal but say Iran shouldn't, when European pigs (whom you call them good guys) say we want to preserve the deal, they mean Iran shouldn't retaliate.


They allowed oil sale but blocked it's money, they allowed investments but by threatening to scrap the deal on daily basis, repelled all investors, they lifted the aircraft sale, but blocked the transactions to make sure purchasing new planes wouldn't be economical for Iranian airliners, they even refused to sell fuel to our foreign minister airplane let alone ordinary Iranian airliners. tens of our airplanes are grounded because they don't sell the spare parts.

Neither supreme leader nor any sane Iranian who seeks the truth has ever supported this deal, but there are many politicians who supported this deal at the beginning, but later turned against it (and I have posted several of their pro-west instances in this thread too).


you said "If deal was so bad why then Trump want to end it or change it?"
I ask why trump didn't scrap it, while it was and is his constant blabbering, the answer is cause he didn't wanted to, the goal of these threats (which is a clear violation of the deal) is to create an uncertain atmosphere and repel the investments.

They will eventually scrap the deal, they will never let Iran to see the end of limitations, as soon as they reach the conclusion that Iran is gaining anything from this deal.

And deal is absolutely not bad. If you think it is bad, then you have the full right to come out of it.

Please let the Iranian people make it aware that the deal is bad. Please make the Wali Faqih also aware that the deal is bad. At moment neither Wali Faqih agrees with the Iranian conservatives, nor the Iranian people agrees with them, but they chose Rohani by giving him 58% votes.



Everybody knows that deal was bad for Iran.
But not going for deal would have been "WORST" for Iran and therefore Iran went for it.

Iranian already know what has happen:
http://www.cissm.umd.edu/publications/iranian-public-opinion-after-protests
74.8% of respondents said the nuclear 2015 deal has not improved living conditions in the Islamic Republic.
A staggering 90.7% believe the US did not lift sanctions it committed to lift, or is indirectly frustrating the benefits of lifting sanctions, and 86.4% have low confidence or are not confident at all that the US will live up to its obligations to reduce sanctions under the nuclear agreement.

The people who were dancing in streets to celebrate Rouhani's victory, the very same people 6 months later were chanting against him in streets, maybe you don't follow the news!

Supreme leader has always been a constant critic of negotiations with west, if you don't know this, then you know NOTHING about Iran.

This is your side of story.
For western people, it is Iranian Wali Faqih system which is tyrant and oppressor and killer of thousands of innocents and usurper of the rights of the minorities like Bahais and atheists and any one who opposes their dictatorship.

This is the picture of Iran all over the world, which the Iranian conservatives are not able to comprehend.

Not only whole world, but inside Iran too the moderates are constantly complaining off and they want the reduction in powers of all such entities who don't undergo elections today (like Wali Faqih himself, and screening of the candidates etc.)

Conservatives got the power in Iran, and they went on playing "Might is Right" against the Bahais and other minorities and the opponents. But on state level, these are the Westerns who got more power and they are there to play the might is right.



Propaganda is reality.
Another reality is this that you have lost the war of propaganda.
You are not ready to reform yourself and enemy will use your wrong doings against you.

what you said is just lame lame lame excuses which would save no one from hell, we are not living in the stone age, there is no more single voice news channel.
no one can claim I didn't know, no one can claim he was fooled, evidences are available to anyone who cares about it. whether it's about Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen, or Myanmar or Palestine.

these are not the result of propaganda, these are the result of incuriosity of so called good people.

Wali Faqih is elected too (you better educate yourself), anybody who talks against supreme leader has to forget the winning of any election in Iran, that's why even Reformists express their support for supreme leader, even though these hypocrites will never listen to him.

 

[veg]

It's you whose brain is filled with propaganda that this deal has been good for Iran. You assume that this deal is good and then based on this false assumption you say Europeans are good cause they want to preserve it.

You are once again blinded to see that indeed the majority of the European people want this deal to succeed.

If Europeans talk about preserving the deal, it's not because they are less hostile, it's because they are playing the good cop, bad cop along the U.S.

both US and EU have violated the deal sever times, to the extent that almost nothing has left of it. for us, sanctions are effectively in place as if there is no deal.

they violate the deal but say Iran shouldn't, when European pigs (whom you call them good guys) say we want to preserve the deal, they mean Iran shouldn't retaliate.

They allowed oil sale but blocked it's money, they allowed investments but by threatening to scrap the deal on daily basis, repelled all investors, they lifted the aircraft sale, but blocked the transactions to make sure purchasing new planes wouldn't be economical for Iranian airliners, they even refused to sell fuel to our foreign minister airplane let alone ordinary Iranian airliners. tens of our airplanes are grounded because they don't sell the spare parts.

Please show when does the Europeans blocked the oil money.
And it was not obligatory upon the Europeans to invest in Iran.
And it was also not obligatory upon the Europeans to provide Iran with the Planes, which has US made equipment in it.
Refusing fuel sale is individual incident, which was even handled positively at the end by the Europeans.

If Iranian airplanes are not flying, then it is not due to the deal, but it is because Iran is weak in technology than them.

So, the problem is mainly due to Trump and not due to the Europeans.

And if you feel that Deal is not working for Iran, then simply come out of it.

But your problem is this that you are blinded to see that Iran got Billions of USD due to the deal and able to sell the oil. That is why despite being problems in the deal, still Iran is not coming out of it.

Iranian already know what has happen:
http://www.cissm.umd.edu/publications/iranian-public-opinion-after-protests
74.8% of respondents said the nuclear 2015 deal has not improved living conditions in the Islamic Republic.
A staggering 90.7% believe the US did not lift sanctions it committed to lift, or is indirectly frustrating the benefits of lifting sanctions, and 86.4% have low confidence or are not confident at all that the US will live up to its obligations to reduce sanctions under the nuclear agreement.

When according to you, Iranians already know what is happening, then my question why Wali Faqih still not respecting the wishes of the majority of Iranians and why doesn't he comes out of the deal?

There is something fishy when Wali Faqih is not scrapping the deal despite it's being contradictory to Iranian interests (as you claim).

When then you don't held Wali Faqih responsible for this?

For me it is clear, deal is bad for Iran, but having no deal would be worst. This is the sole reason that Wali Faqih is compelled to still stay in the deal.

The people who were dancing in streets to celebrate Rouhani's victory, the very same people 6 months later were chanting against him in streets, maybe you don't follow the news!

Didn't they the supporters of Ahmadinejad and conservatives who were on the road initially against Rohani?
Let the elections come and see if Iranian people want Rohani or the conservatives.

what you said is just lame lame lame excuses which would save no one from hell, we are not living in the stone age, there is no more single voice news channel.
no one can claim I didn't know, no one can claim he was fooled, evidences are available to anyone who cares about it. whether it's about Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen, or Myanmar or Palestine.

these are not the result of propaganda, these are the result of incuriosity of so called good people.

This is the main problem of your Fanaticism. You deny that any part of European people favours the deal and hate the Trump and your lame excuse is this these European people selected their governments.
And when the European people of opinion that Iran is not giving the equal rights to the Bahais and atheists and women, then you blame them of incuriosity and deny the presence of any PROPAGANDA due to numerous news channels.

This is 100% proof of your Fanaticism.

On one side you say that Iranian People are voting for the Reformists while they are mislead by the propaganda (despite presence of dozens of pro conservative news channels and newspapers). But when it comes to the Western people, then you deny that they could be mislead due to any propaganda while news channels exist.

This is your fanaticism which making you blind of your Double Standards.

This is the same fanaticism which existed in the history of Islam and other Abrahamic Religions, where whole all men of the opposing tribes were slaughtered (even if they were old men or common citizens and having no hand in war), and women and children were made slaves for whole of their life (even those women and children were innocent of any role in the war). That time also the justification was given that they chose the leader so all of those innocents had to suffer for the rest of their life.

You are simply blind to see the opinion and the presence of the normal people.

Wali Faqih is elected too (you better educate yourself), anybody who talks against supreme leader has to forget the winning of any election in Iran, that's why even Reformists express their support for supreme leader, even though these hypocrites will never listen to him.

We already discussed it in details. If Wali Faqih is not afraid of loosing, why then not to go to the polls? For sure no one will be allowed to contest for the election if he speaks against the Wali Faqih. It is pure dictatorship. You could not make others fool by brining such lame excuses.

 

[yavar]

 

[mohsen]

You are once again blinded to see that indeed the majority of the European people want this deal to succeed.

a one sided deal, yeah sure, why not!

Please show when does the Europeans blocked the oil money.
And it was not obligatory upon the Europeans to invest in Iran.
And it was also not obligatory upon the Europeans to provide Iran with the Planes, which has US made equipment in it.
Refusing fuel sale is individual incident, which was even handled positively at the end by the Europeans.

If Iranian airplanes are not flying, then it is not due to the deal, but it is because Iran is weak in technology than them.

So, the problem is mainly due to Trump and not due to the Europeans.

And if you feel that Deal is not working for Iran, then simply come out of it.

But your problem is this that you are blinded to see that Iran got Billions of USD due to the deal and able to sell the oil. That is why despite being problems in the deal, still Iran is not coming out of it.

one again, your comment shows that you know NOTHING about this deal, you know nothing about it's context, but have a appetite for your jibberish blabbering.

any threat for new sanctions or scrapping the deal is a direct violation of the deal, cause it will repels the international investors, we never asked for European investments.

No money came to Iran, U.S (whether that murder obama or this murder trump) and it's European allies (with the fake excuse that we are following U.S laws) blocked all money transactions, even Russia and China cooperated, even more after JCPOA, cause they wanted to force Iran buy their crappy products (which would led to more unemployment in Iran)
Kerry: Iran Has Only Received $3 Billion, Not $100B

foreign investments in Iran, blue belongs to Ahmadinejad, and Red belongs to Rouhani and his deal:

source is UNCTAD

European thieves not only didn't return our money but even illegally gave it to their master U.S, they didn't even bother to go to international curt.
Luxembourg court denies Iran demand to unblock assets

When according to you, Iranians already know what is happening, then my question why Wali Faqih still not respecting the wishes of the majority of Iranians and why doesn't he comes out of the deal?
There is something fishy when Wali Faqih is not scrapping the deal despite it's being contradictory to Iranian interests (as you claim).

When then you don't held Wali Faqih responsible for this?

For me it is clear, deal is bad for Iran, but having no deal would be worst. This is the sole reason that Wali Faqih is compelled to still stay in the deal.

It wasn't according to me, but apparently your biased brain prefers to think that way!

Supreme leader gave the authority to president, he put some preconditions for the deal (all of which has been violated) and asked him to assemble a team to observe the deal and respond accordingly, yet, he let President to choose the members himself, Leader wanted to defeat the Reformist's propaganda that having relations with U.S will bring us any good, and he succeeded. the more Reformists struggle, the more they will go down.
Even today they rapidly say Rouhani wasn't our choice! to divert the consequence of their own policies to a single man, Rouhani.

again due to the lack of your information about this deal, you say why leader doesn't break the deal, or Iran can get out of it any time!

1.This stupid comment is because you don't know (or don't want to know) that Rouhani violated the leader's condition and fulfilled our obligations without waiting for the other side, our nuclear infrastructure is already destroyed. breaking the deal, wont return billions of damages.

2. even though the benefits of staying in this deal is close to nothing, but since our nuclear infrastructure is already destroyed (by traitor Reformists), breaking out of it will bring us no good either, except that it gives Americans yet another excuse. also Reformists prefer not to admit the failure of their legendary deal.

3. The deal which traitors signed, doesn't even let us to complain about the other side's violations, if we complain, sanctions will return!

Didn't they the supporters of Ahmadinejad and conservatives who were on the road initially against Rohani?
Let the elections come and see if Iranian people want Rohani or the conservatives.

No, it wasn't initiated by conservative, it was initiated by people who lost their money in banks, followed by retired army personnel, and later when another bigger peaceful protest emerged in Mashhad, it's top cleric tried to calm people, western and Reformists media tried to show it as conservative's protest and hide the nature of these protests.
But their policy backfired, pro-west and pro-Rouhani (ex-pro-Rouhani) followed the protests and (with the help of foreign services) turned it violent and against the whole system.

This is the main problem of your Fanaticism. You deny that any part of European people favours the deal and hate the Trump and your lame excuse is this these European people selected their governments.
And when the European people of opinion that Iran is not giving the equal rights to the Bahais and atheists and women, then you blame them of incuriosity and deny the presence of any PROPAGANDA due to numerous news channels.

This is 100% proof of your Fanaticism.

On one side you say that Iranian People are voting for the Reformists while they are mislead by the propaganda (despite presence of dozens of pro conservative news channels and newspapers). But when it comes to the Western people, then you deny that they could be mislead due to any propaganda while news channels exist.

This is your fanaticism which making you blind of your Double Standards.

This is the same fanaticism which existed in the history of Islam and other Abrahamic Religions, where whole all men of the opposing tribes were slaughtered (even if they were old men or common citizens and having no hand in war), and women and children were made slaves for whole of their life (even those women and children were innocent of any role in the war). That time also the justification was given that they chose the leader so all of those innocents had to suffer for the rest of their life.

You are simply blind to see the opinion and the presence of the normal people.


We already discussed it in details. If Wali Faqih is not afraid of loosing, why then not to go to the polls? For sure no one will be allowed to contest for the election if he speaks against the Wali Faqih. It is pure dictatorship. You could not make others fool by brining such lame excuses.

as I said, people don't always choose the right thing, not because of propaganda, but because of a their own self interest, even if it's temporary.

don't all humans know that cola is harmful for health? don't they know the devastating consequences?!
It's not because of the propaganda, it's because they don't care. that's how they are, Iranian or none-Iranian doesn't matter, except in numbers.

Bahai is a cult which initiated by U.K with the goal to create hatred among Muslims, and today their base is in Israel, accidentally! they are a very very small minority, yet prior to revolution were holding the key positions, for example nine of top commanders in army were bahai, reason is that they are and act like a cult and always follow what is dictated to them from outside.

Unlike what you said, we neither slaughtered them, nor enslaved them, they can freely practice their religion, but of course we neither trust them, nor let them to advertise it.
from decades prior to revolution (when there was no mullah regime), Iranian have always hated this fake religion. Their founders are proven liars who have even claimed to be god!

atheist western society doesn't care if any liar start claiming to be god and fool some people, they even welcome it, cause this is their own agenda.


as I said, your excuses wont help you, it's not just Iran. European don't give a f@ck about the others.
is there anybody that isn't aware of Israeli's war crimes? the massacre in Palestine? the genocide in Myanmar?

prior to U.S, European were the main murders, half of Iran population was killed by these thugs during world war, and this new U.S is nothing but a branch of the same murders which after a genocide managed to economically push them back and become number one mass murder.
get your excuses somewhere else.

 

[yavar]

Trump sacks Rex Tillerson as state secretary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43388723

 

[yavar]

US Sherman: we prepared agreement before Iran negotiation began شرمن: متن توافق ایران آماده بود

 

[yavar]

 

[yavar]

 

[yavar]

Iran DM Gen. Hatami visit to Russia, warned against disruption of JCPOA هشدار بر هم زنندگان برجام

 

[yavar]

Iran AEOI chief Salehi, warns of special surprise if U.S scuttle JCPOA صالحی ضربِ شستِ ویژه ایران

 

[yavar]

ایران رئیس جمهور روحانی، هشدار داد اگر در برجام نقض عهد کنند یک‌هفته‌ای آثارش را خواهند دید
http://tn.ai/1695820

Iran President Rouhani warn "If the deal ( JCPOA ) breaks U.S Trump witness fallout in less than a week,

Iran celebrates Nuclear Day with warning to U.S Trump
Iran celebrates its National Nuclear Technology Day, with President Hassan Rouhani warning US President Donald Trump against a possible pullout from the nuclear deal with the Islamic Republic.
"If the deal breaks, they will surely regret it. They will witness the fallout in less than a week," Rouhani said on Monday during a special ceremony held in commemoration of the occasion
http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/04/09/557912/Iran-nuclear-Rouhani-Salehi-United-States