The end of the deal, hopes, delusions and treasons

[Hack-Hook]

You've ignored a well documented academic paper for the benefit of an out of context photograph which implies nothing much onto itself. There are photographs of Imam Khomeini (r.A.a.) with the likes of Bani Sadr, and? So I haven't been the one evading, although I will not entertain this attempt at smearing righteous forebears of the Islamic Revolution.

before bani-Sadr show its true face or after it.
the photo i posted is 2 month after what some moron called رستاخیز ملت

28 Mordad was a two stage coup, This f@cker Mosaddeq was part of the first stage himself, he had removed the Kashani few days earlier, but Americans fooled him and got ride of him as well.

he betrayed the Islamists and cooperated with Americans to get ride of them to establish a full secular system. few days earlier, he plotted against Kashani and by a fake referendum disbanded the Parliament, so legally he put the Shah on top of the political system, Shah used the opportunity and replaced him with Zahedi.


In 28 Mordad from morning till noon, the hooligans were chanting in favor of Mosaddeq and against Kashani, Mosaddeq didn't stop them, in his naive mind, he was undermining the Islamists, but from noon, the second stage of the coup was executed and the second group of hooligans started to chant against himself and in favor of Kashani, people who were mostly religious naturally turned their back against the Mosaddeq and didn't support him either.

28 Mordad was a coup against a nation, and Mosaddeq was equally a traitor and fool part of it.

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تسÙÛÙ ÙÙشت: کاشاÙÛ Ú¯Ùت: اÛ٠ادعاÙا ک٠آÛتâاÙÙ٠کاشاÙÛ Ø®Ø§ÙÙâÙØ´ÛÙ Ø´Ø¯Ø Ø§Ø² درÙغâÙØ§Û ØªØ§Ø±ÛØ®Û Ø§Ø³Øª ک٠پس از شکست ÙÙØ¶ØªØ ÙÙرد تبÙÛغ Ùرار گرÙت٠است. Ø¢ÛتâاÙÙ٠کاشاÙÛ Ø¨Ù Ùبارزات سÛØ§Ø³Û Ø®Ùد اداÙ٠داد Ù ÛÚ© بخش از...

www.khabaronline.ir

I never denied Mossadeq naiveness and mistakes. what I argue here is that Kashani is not the saint SalarHaq try to pictures and its insult to the name of people like Mirzay-e-Shirazi and Modarres if we consider him equal to them

 

[thesaint]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1545477234936381441

 

[SalarHaqq]

before bani-Sadr show its true face or after it.
the photo i posted is 2 month after what some moron called رستاخیز ملت

I never denied Mossadeq naiveness and mistakes. what I argue here is that Kashani is not the saint SalarHaq try to pictures and its insult to the name of people like Mirzay-e-Shirazi and Modarres if we consider him equal to them

Never drew any comparisons between them, but along with the other ulema cited, ayatOllah Kashani does have his place in the hall of fame of dignified contemporary leaders whose work came to inspire the Islamic Revolution.

This is acknowledged by the Islamic Republic since public infrastructure like expressways have been named after ayatOllah Kashani. Personally I've yet to come across a revolutionary who feels insulted by this.

If you prefer to lend credence to so-called declassified documents released by the US regime - in fact doctored and biased publications with obvious political motives, then so be it. For in fact, these same publications are tailored to falsely depict the events of 28 Mordad as a "popular uprising" rather than the CIA-orchestrated coup it was.

So actually, these morons are shooting themselves in the foot on top of contradicting themselves when they simultaneously try to incriminate the most influential clerical figure of the time as a local participant to the coup, coup which they otherwise endeavour to pass off as a mobilization of the Iranian people!

Of equal importance is the fact that only few years afterwards, the same American regime in yet another fraudulent presentation published so-called "archival documents" designed to tarnish the image of Imam Khomeini this time around, by suggesting that Washington had helped the latter! Clearly there's a repetitive pattern here for those willing to discern it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Never drew any comparisons between them, but along with the other ulema cited, ayatOllah Kashani does have his place in the hall of fame of dignified contemporary leaders whose work came to inspire the Islamic Revolution.

This is acknowledged by the Islamic Republic since public infrastructure like expressways has been named after ayatOllah Kashani. Personally I've yet to come across a revolutionary who feels insulted by this.

If you prefer to lend credence to so-called declassified documents released by the US regime - in fact doctored and biased publications with obvious political motives, then so be it. For in fact, these same publications are tailored to falsely depict the events of 28 Mordad as a "popular uprising" rather than the CIA-orchestrated coup it was.

So actually, these morons are shooting themselves in the foot on top of contradicting themselves when they simultaneously try to incriminate the most influential clerical figure of the time as a local participant to the coup, coup which they otherwise endeavour to pass off as a mobilization of the Iranian people!

Of equal importance is the fact that only few of years afterwards, the same American regime in yet another fraudulent presentation published a so-called "archival document" designed to tarnish the image of Imam Khomeini this time around, by suggesting that Washington had helped the latter! Clearly there's a repetitive pattern here for those willing to discern it.

declassified archive aside , what about his photo with shaaban jaafari, what about the ettelaat articles from the time. what about its interview with Egyptian newspaper. all of them fake ?
your argument here and trying to defend him is becoming .....

 

[SalarHaqq]

declassified archive aside , what about his photo with shaaban jaafari, what about the ettelaat articles from the time. what about its interview with Egyptian newspaper. all of them fake ?
your argument here and trying to defend him is becoming .....

As if I didn't share a comprehensive study that puts to rest allegations against him. Published on the website of the Islamic Revolution Documents Center by the way, a respectable and reliable public institution in Iran.

 

[Hack-Hook]

As if I didn't share a comprehensive study that puts to rest allegations against him. Published on the website of the Islamic Revolution Documents Center by the way, a respectable and reliable public institution in Iran.

that didn't answer any of what attributed to him.
your study says he warned mossadeq about coupe , but it still remain how a person who was in prison could carry his message to mossadeq ?

and in your study says coupe made kashani loose his intrest in politics , then what is his later to usa president ?
and how come you accept Ettela'at article about he want to go to a muslim country and put politic behind , but don't accept another article from the same news paper that he said mossadeq must be killed because he stand against king ?
about the film

مصدق را ویران کرد... خانه مصدق و خانه دکتر غلامحسین مصدق به صورت ویرانه‌ای در آمده و قسمتی از آن هم سوخته بود.»[21]
براساس آنچه حسین مکی می‌گوید و روزنامه اطلاعات سه روز بعد از کودتا را گزارش کرده است٬ خانه مصدق به طور کامل با خاک یکسان شده است و به ویرانه‌ای تبدیل شده بود و از طرفی هم بنا بر گفته حسین مکی حتی در 29 مرداد هم هنوز از منزل دکتر مصدق دود بلند می‌شد ولی در فیلم مورد بحث٬ نه اثری از سوختگی خانه مصدق وجود دارد و نه دودی دیده می‌شود و حتی نشان می‌دهد که قسمت‌های اعظم خانه مصدق سالم است.

from your article , part of the building was destroyed , i didn't saw the film. in fact i was never aware of it.
now answer me. when kashani entered the partly destroyed house of mossadeq while accompanied by American , English representative and Zahedi ? this is what your article claim and i want to now when was it ? it must be after coupe .not before it.
if the house is partly destroyed not completely , it must be between the arrest of mossadeq and attack of Sha'aban Jafari , so your article infact prove he was with the coupe.
Shaaban jaafari did the majority of destruction to mossadeq house , before his attack only one tank shell hit his house that destroyed part of the house. exactly what article claim the video show the situation of the house.
now if you can provide a link to the mentioned video we can see it and then discuss its authencity instead of wanting to discuss it based on what we heard.

by the way if Shaaban Ja'afari was not kashani man like what BBC and USA declassified documents claim why he has so friendly photo with kashani after the coupe, let not talk about his friendly photos with the well known behbehani.

and a question who was the one who killed Afshar Toos ? England admitted that they made the order but the name of the operatives won't ring a bell

کوروش زعیم می‌گوید: «بنا بر اعتراف بازداشت‌شدگان پرونده قتل افشارطوس، اعضای تیم توطئه عبارت بودند از سرلشکر فضل‌الله زاهدی، سرتیپ نصرالله زاهدی، سرتیپ مزینی، سرتیپ منزه، سرتیپ بایندر، سرگرد بلوچ قرایی، افشار قاسلمو، حسین خطیبی و مظفر بقایی [نماینده سرشناس مجلس]. بنا بر اسناد محرمانه دولت انگلستان که بعد از ۳۰ سال در سال ۱۳۶۴ چاپ شد، دستور قتل توسط اینتلجنت سرویس انگلستان صادر شده بود و در ایران در خانه دکتر بقایی ابلاغ شده بود.»​

and from the memoir of Shaaban Jaafari that show he was kashani man

شعبان جعفری در این‌باره در خاطرات خود می‌گوید:[۲]
​

آیت الله‌کاشانی به ما گفت: «… برین نذارین شاه بره اگه شاه بره عمامه مام رفته. مام رفتیم در خونه شاه. بعد از سخنرانی و داد و بیداد رفتیم در خونه مصدق بعد دیدیم طبقه اول، اون بالا افشارطوس که رئیس شهربانی بود وایساده. من داد زدم گفتم: اومدیم مصدق رو ببریم نذاره اعلیحضرت بره. افشارطوس گفت: برو خفه شو! افشارطوس دو سه تا داد زد سرمون، مام دو سه تا داد سر اون زدیم و دعوامون شد. گفتم: آخه بابا پاگونتو شاه داده!»​

 

[SalarHaqq]

that didn't answer any of what attributed to him.
your study says he warned mossadeq about coupe , but it still remain how a person who was in prison could carry his message to mossadeq ?

and in your study says coupe made kashani loose his intrest in politics , then what is his later to usa president ?
and how come you accept Ettela'at article about he want to go to a muslim country and put politic behind , but don't accept another article from the same news paper that he said mossadeq must be killed because he stand against king ?
about the film


from your article , part of the building was destroyed , i didn't saw the film. in fact i was never aware of it.
now answer me. when kashani entered the partly destroyed house of mossadeq while accompanied by American , English representative and Zahedi ? this is what your article claim and i want to now when was it ? it must be after coupe .not before it.
if the house is partly destroyed not completely , it must be between the arrest of mossadeq and attack of Sha'aban Jafari , so your article infact prove he was with the coupe.
Shaaban jaafari did the majority of destruction to mossadeq house , before his attack only one tank shell hit his house that destroyed part of the house. exactly what article claim the video show the situation of the house.
now if you can provide a link to the mentioned video we can see it and then discuss its authencity instead of wanting to discuss it based on what we heard.

by the way if Shaaban Ja'afari was not kashani man like what BBC and USA declassified documents claim why he has so friendly photo with kashani after the coupe, let not talk about his friendly photos with the well known behbehani.

and a question who was the one who killed Afshar Toos ? England admitted that they made the order but the name of the operatives won't ring a bell

and from the memoir of Shaaban Jaafari that show he was kashani man

Grasping at straws and producing speculative arguments to defend CIA and MI6 propaganda (a photograph means nothing when context is missing; there are many ways to send messages from prison; not having personally seen a film recording does not mean it doesn't exist etc).

As said, you keep believing the CIA and the MI6. Like all those aware of the lying and manipulative nature of the latter, I will go for the comprehensive analysis and facts provided by the Islamic Republic's Document Center, which neatly debunks all petty allegations by existential enemies of Iran designed to smear a great alim.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Grasping at straws and producing speculative arguments to defend CIA and MI6 propaganda (a photograph means nothing when context is missing; there are many ways to send messages from prison; not having personally seen a film recording does not mean it doesn't exist etc).

you call pointing to the facts grasping at straws.
well done , this time you are outdoing yourself

As said, you keep believing the CIA and the MI6. Like all those aware of the lying and manipulative nature of the latter, I will go for the comprehensive analysis and facts provided by the Islamic Republic's Document Center, which neatly debunks all petty allegations by existential enemies of Iran designed to smear a great alim.

this time I only used Ettelaat articles and the exact research you yourself pointed , that exact research shows the mentioned film is taken between Mosaddeq arrest and attack of Shaaban Ja'afari on his house.
by the way you and your article start using that film , it was not me who mentioned it first. I just post a photo and said Shaaban Ja'afari was his man. and he had god relation by some of the people who killed Afshar Toos (the guy who stop a coupe attempt and Mosaddeq assassination the year before that)

if part of what i said is wrong point to it not just brush it aside as CIA propaganda, prove your point by facts

 

[SalarHaqq]

you call pointing to the facts grasping at straws.
well done , this time you are outdoing yourself

Basing oneself on CIA and BBC propaganda, and resorting to speculation is what I call grasping at straws. Because that's what it is.

this time I only used Ettelaat articles and the exact research you yourself pointed , that exact research shows the mentioned film is taken between Mosaddeq arrest and attack of Shaaban Ja'afari on his house.
by the way you and your article start using that film , it was not me who mentioned it first. I just post a photo and said Shaaban Ja'afari was his man. and he had god relation by some of the people who killed Afshar Toos (the guy who stop a coupe attempt and Mosaddeq assassination the year before that)

Everything the CIA says about Iran is a lie. Including the propaganda about ayatOllah Kashani which you repeat.

and how come you accept Ettela'at article about he want to go to a muslim country and put politic behind , but don't accept another article from the same news paper that he said mossadeq must be killed because he stand against king ?

You selectively pick out information from a source. When the CIA publishes so-called documents to create the impression that 28 Mordad was a popular uprising you reject it but when the very same material tries to present ayatOllah Kashani as having played a role in that "uprising" you wholeheartedly embrace it.

When swindlers from the CIA and BBC Farsi (aka MI6) launch a defamation campaign to make it seem as if ayatOllah Kashani was cooperating with the USA regime you trust them, when they publish the exact same nonsense about Imam Khomeini (r.A.a) you refrain from advertising it.

if part of what i said is wrong point to it not just brush it aside as CIA propaganda, prove your point by facts

Already cited sources demonstrating it very clearly, no need to go in circles. CIA-sponsored distortions and wordplay won't affect it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Basing oneself on CIA and BBC propaganda, and resorting to speculation is what I call grasping at straws. Because that's what it is.

basing on what you call , schoolarly article and asked me to read it and said prove that kashani is innocent of what they claim
and also iran newspaper of the time that he and his family never dared to say they are fake

Everything the CIA says about Iran is a lie. Including the propaganda about ayatOllah Kashani which you repeat.

how come when you use Ettelaat newspaper its true but when i use it its fake ? why when you use that article its scholarly and well researched article but when I use the same article its CIA propaganda ?

You selectively pick out information from a source. When the CIA publishes so-called documents to create the impression that 28 Mordad was a popular uprising you reject it but when the very same material tries to present ayatOllah Kashani as having played a role in that "uprising" you wholeheartedly embrace it.

where I used the documents presented by CIA and MI6?
by the way how come you say they are fake without proving it , at least they are documents , what's your proof except his family words ?
by the way many of what i say about him come top light after he become irrelevant in Iran politic and before Islamic revolution so there was no need to make a campaign against him.

Already cited sources demonstrating it very clearly, no need to go in circles. CIA-sponsored distortions and wordplay won't affect it.

and i point discrepencies in the source you mentioned that show they are not trustworthy.
first they claim he warned Mossadeq that a coupe is under the way but claim a person in prison delivered it to mossadeq
you say , he didn't had anything to attack on Mosaddeq house but it turn out before the attack of Sha'aban Ja'afari and his goons but after his arrest he and coup leaders visited Mosaddeq house and all of it concluded from your article.
then we have admission of Toos killer on who was the one that participated in the killing and name of whose come out , people he protected or had close relation with

did i ever use the letters he sent USA , when he asked money from them ,...... that were part of declassified document , no I didn't there is no need to do that , there are so many evidence against him that there is no need to do that, only somebody must be willing to see.
I always say one thing , you can cure a blind but you can't cure one that want to be blind.
if you want to name people who actually stand against imperialism , there are many names you can say , there are many who lost their lives in that road, they are many who spent years and years in prison , become disabled under the torture , he was not one of them.

 

[SalarHaqq]

basing on what you call , schoolarly article and asked me to read it and said prove that kashani is innocent of what they claim
and also iran newspaper of the time that he and his family never dared to say they are fake

Trying to counter it by openly endorsing CIA / MI6 propaganda.

how come when you use Ettelaat newspaper its true but when i use it its fake ? why when you use that article its scholarly and well researched article but when I use the same article its CIA propaganda ?

How come that when the CIA claims ayatOllah Kashani cooperated with the American regime you buy it, but when they level the same ludicrous accusation against Imam Khomeini you'll stop short from publicly advertising it?

where I used the documents presented by CIA and MI6?

Well, you cited them explicitly.

by the way how come you say they are fake without proving it , at least they are documents , what's your proof except his family words ?

Since I see CIA, BBC and Manoto are where this media campaign originated, I automatically know it's a lie.

by the way many of what i say about him come top light after he become irrelevant in Iran politic and before Islamic revolution so there was no need to make a campaign against him.

The enemy needs to delegitimize the revolutionary clergy. This is part of it.

And it's systematically the same lame secularist, anti-clerical elements in Iran (liberals, monarchists) in Iran who echo the propaganda.

and i point discrepencies in the source you mentioned that show they are not trustworthy.
first they claim he warned Mossadeq that a coupe is under the way but claim a person in prison delivered it to mossadeq
you say , he didn't had anything to attack on Mosaddeq house but it turn out before the attack of Sha'aban Ja'afari and his goons but after his arrest he and coup leaders visited Mosaddeq house and all of it concluded from your article.
then we have admission of Toos killer on who was the one that participated in the killing and name of whose come out , people he protected or had close relation with

did i ever use the letters he sent USA , when he asked money from them ,...... that were part of declassified document , no I didn't there is no need to do that , there are so many evidence against him that there is no need to do that, only somebody must be willing to see.
I always say one thing , you can cure a blind but you can't cure one that want to be blind.
if you want to name people who actually stand against imperialism , there are many names you can say , there are many who lost their lives in that road, they are many who spent years and years in prison , become disabled under the torture , he was not one of them.

I stick with my position, there's no point reposting the same stories a hundred times.

Sources you're basing yourself on:

- Are in fact the intelligence agencies of Iran's existential enemies.
- Have been trying in the same breath to suggest that 28 Mordad was a popular uprising rather than a coup.
- Have attempted to reiterate an identical smear campaign against Imam Khomeini, using the exact same procedures and fallacious argumentations when trying to make it appear as if he collaborated with the regime in Washington.

Which is enough for me to conclude that this talk aganst ayatOllah Kashani is inaccurate. I'm delighted that an expressway in Tehran is named after the mojahed and that there's nothing liberals and the mo'aned anti-IR crowd can do about it other than getting ever more salty.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Trying to counter it by openly endorsing CIA / MI6 propaganda.

by the exact same article you posted here

How come that when the CIA claims ayatOllah Kashani cooperated with the American regime you buy it, but when they level the same ludicrous accusation against Imam Khomeini you'll stop short from publicly advertising it?

bring evidence on mr. khomeini cooperation as i brought about mr. Kashani.

Well, you cited them explicitly.

hope you never use any data from declassification of USA or Britain archives or anything from BBC as I remaind this day to you but after you said you don't accept them , I only discussed Iranian data such as Ettelaaat Newspaper and the exact same article you yourself post.
by the way are you aware your argument is only based on his close relative narratives not examinable facts and they benefit from saying he was revolutionary

 

[SalarHaqq]

by the exact same article you posted here

Using CIA-designed narratives in commenting it.

bring evidence on mr. khomeini cooperation as i brought about mr. Kashani.

There's no evidence for either, because in both cases it was one and the same CIA psy-ops and propaganda operation, nothing more.

hope you never use any data from declassification of USA or Britain archives or anything from BBC as I remaind this day to you but after you said you don't accept them ,

When it comes to Islamic Iran, everything they release is subject to additional regulations. No other nation is facing as much propaganda and psy-ops from the west than Iran. Even their anti-Chinese and anti-Russian campaigns pale in comparison.

I only discussed Iranian data such as Ettelaaat Newspaper and the exact same article you yourself post.

Using CIA-designed talking points in response.

by the way are you aware your argument is only based on his close relative narratives not examinable facts and they benefit from saying he was revolutionary

There's nothing to discuss, I see CIA and MI6, I automatically know for a fact they're going to lie about Iranian history. Look for slightly more credible sources of inspiration. The anti-clerical secularist agenda won't go anywhere with procedures like these.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Since I see CIA, BBC and Manoto are where this media campaign originated, I automatically know it's a lie.

that's very weak argument by the way i only examined the article you post and from it conclude he was at Mosaddeq house with coupe leaders and the ones who designed it between Mosaddeq arrest and Sha'aban Ja'afari attack on his home . also i post a photo of him with sha'aban Ja'afari some week after the coupe when every one was aware of his role in coupe.

The enemy needs to delegitimize the revolutionary clergy. This is part of it.

he was not revolutionary , if anyone Mr. khomeini heared his words was Ayat-Allah Borujerdi which when told to Imam don't continue political activity , he stop them till the day he was alive and after his death , he continued his fighting.
he was not revolutionary , he only cared for power , if it come wit England he was with them , if it was USA , then he support them , if Zahedi would have given him power , he'd followed him and funny fact , all of them used him and then throw him away.

And it's systematically the same lame secularist, anti-clerical elements in Iran (liberals, monarchists) in Iran who echo the propaganda.

and not all clerics worth the clothes they wear . there are few who like mr. Modarres , mr. Khomeyni , Mirzay-e-shirazi dare to stand against despots and monarchs and don't fear telling the truth and don't step back even when their life is threatened . even mr. broujerdi who everyone said don't interfere with politic , banned pepsi-cola because its brand in Iran owned by Bahaiis .

I stick with my position, there's no point reposting the same stories a hundred times.

Sources you're basing yourself on:

- Are in fact the intelligence agencies of Iran's existential enemies.
- Have been trying in the same breath to suggest that 28 Mordad was a popular uprising rather than a coup.
- Have attempted to reiterate an identical smear campaign against Imam Khomeini, using the exact same procedures and fallacious argumentations when trying to make it appear as if he collaborated with the regime in Washington.

Which is enough for me to conclude that this talk aganst ayatOllah Kashani is inaccurate. I'm delighted that an expressway in Tehran is named after the mojahed and that there's nothing liberals and the mo'aned anti-IR crowd can do about it other than getting ever more salty.

wrong my argument only based on the article you post , a photo that is authenticated and et'telaat newspaper.

now let not talk about Ja'afar Sha'abani memoire and declassified documents that you don't accept . let not talk about his son congratulate coupe leaders after the coupe as you claim he do it without his consent again from his family and not verifiable

 

[Hack-Hook]

Using CIA-designed narratives in commenting it.

using only the data mentioned in the same article , nothing from CIA or BBC documents

There's no evidence for either, because in both cases it was one and the same CIA psy-ops and propaganda operation, nothing more.

for kashani there is evidence from Iran sources , so you understand why i accept one and why i brush another one aside as forgery , if you can bring evidence on the other one far it be from me to deny the facts

When it comes to Islamic Iran, everything they release is subject to additional regulations. No other nation is facing as much propaganda and psy-ops from the west than Iran. Even their anti-Chinese and anti-Russian campaigns pale in comparison.

so you claim , you accept what is according to your narrative and deny what is against yours , that is some interesting sort of discussion , no doubt you always win in discussion , well at least in your mind. here even you don't accept my cross-examination of the article you yourself posted. so tell me how am i supposed to have a discussion with you . by be a yes , ok , you are right person ?

Using CIA-designed talking points in response.

by using what question it brought to my mind , please describe an approach acceptable to you and not a CIA designed one in your mind that allow examining the data so I use that

There's nothing to discuss, I see CIA and MI6, I automatically know for a fact they're going to lie about Iranian history. Look for slightly more credible sources of inspiration. The anti-clerical secularist agenda won't go anywhere with procedures like these.

again i use your own article , I use Iranian newspaper , if you even don't accept Iranian news paper of the time , then what narrative we can use for the time reference , the person family who benefit from a special narratives ?
let just discuss the article you yourself post here , or that also is CIA and MI6 handiwork?.