The defeat of the Afghan government sparks debates across Taiwan about if Taiwan will become the same

[Beny Karachun]

In addition, Iron Dome has well known limitations acknowledged by Israel itself and many other countries with similar systems.

Israel has David's Sling and Arrow as high end systems, for instance.

US and China both have equivalent short ranged missile systems for use against naval threats with similar speeds and missile size:

HQ-10 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No doubt that the Iron Dome isn't our most capable system. But you're wrong about its capabilities, it is much more versatile than you think.

Those missiles aren't really equivalent, HQ-10 is simply too small to be compared (20kg vs 90kg)
RIM-116 range is closer in weight (70kg) but much shorter range (¬10 kilometers)
Iron Dome has a range of 70km (It's actually more than that, range has been improved in later updates)

There's a reason why Israel invested in Arrow 3, and did not use Iron Dome for everything.

Missile warheads for reentry have ablative armor that can withstand 2000+ C.

Atmospheric entry - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Artillery shells travel at 1000 m/s (only Mach 3) at the muzzle. Their terminal speed is lower and speed at intercept height lower still.

Anyhow this is a moot point until Taiwan makes or imports Iron Dome.

Muzzle velocity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Iron Dome isn't intended against ballistic missiles, you are correct. However I don't think it would be completely useless against it, a direct hit would neutralize a warhead I believe. It can withstand constant heat, but I don't know if it can withstand a fragmentation warhead. It hasn't been tested so I can't know for sure. It would work against heavy artillery for sure though.

Yes you are correct about the artillery thing, my mistake.

I am not here to defend Taiwan, I just tell you about the Iron Dome.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

If push comes to shove, I doubt Chinese, both in mainland and across the strait will be harming each other, I suspect same thing will happen to Taiwan forces as to what happened to ANA. it's one to those situation not worth fighting for.

 

[925boy]

Afghanistan has nothing in terms of economic value while TW has everything.

But this is exactly the reason why Taiwan is self-deterred already from taking/risking military action -it has too much to lose, JUST LIKE SOUTH KOREA.

Big economy + small/weak military = fear to enter military action. Same thing with Israel too.

Reason? 90% of the time the military action isnt worth loss of economy.

Does the Biden admin have any willingness to clash,

You've kind of answered your question with this rhetorical hint.

Imo If China attacks within 5 to 10 years then thiers a possibility of war

But after that US will let it go

Taiwan is a chip powerhouse... So it's important

The defeat of the Afghan government after the withdrawal of U.S. forces and flight of the president has sparked discussion in Taiwan about what would happen in the event of a PRC'S invasion

Taiwan would not collapse like Afghanistan, premier says

Taiwan would not collapse like Afghanistan, premier says | Law-Order

Taiwan would not collapse like Afghanistan in the event of an attack, Premier Su Tseng-chang said on Tuesday, offering an indirect warning to powerful neighbour China not to be "deluded" into thinking it could take the island. China, which claims democratically governed Taiwan as its own...

www.devdiscourse.com

THE DIFFERENT BETWEEN AFGHANISTAN AND TAIWAN IMO:

Which govt will collapse before attack : - Taiwan

Which govt will collapse after attack : - Afghanistan.

 

[925boy]

Afghanistan is to gain access to central Asia..and trillions of $ of valuable minerals, in the end they cannot justify the cost of defending Afghanistan so they quit.

There, fixed it for you too. lol

US invested $2.3 trillion into Afghanistan but $0 to Taiwan.

HOw can US investment in Taiwan be $0 when US invests heavily in Taiwanese companies?I think you meant to say the kind of "financial assistance" given is differnt. Taiwan doesnt need all the $$$ US poured into AFghanistan for development because Taiwan is already rich.

 

[K_Bin_W]

We should do our best to prepare for the worst possible situation.
We will never be optimistic that the USA will not intervene to CCP liberate Taiwan. So we will do this patiently:
1. Build an economy twice that of the USA.
2. Build the PLN stronger than the USN.
3. Build a nuclear arsenal no worse than that of the USA.

I think you hit the nail right on the head beside Taiwan is not going anywhere the Chinese gravity is like a black hole for Taiwan it cannot escape. And trust me and mark my words when time comes there will be no Amreika in sight, it will never stick its neck out for anyone. 80 percent of US population is in 80 cities, you do the math.

Right now it's all dance for the show, if it was possible Taiwan would have declared independence long ago.

 

[925boy]

US did something very smart and unexpected at the time in 2003. It bribed Saddams high level officers to change allegiances, and turned any capacity they had into a house of cards.

...and then US lost the war from the start by disbanding the mostly Sunni Iraqi military, and giving them no other realistic societal options but to join the resistance against US troops in Iraq..smh.

Honestly, what's in Central Asia that's of so much value to the rest of the world? Everyone is talking about access to Central Asia, there is no fountain of youth in there,

Strategic area
Sizeable markets that are still untapped
Vast minerals
International business routes aka BRI/OBOR, etc

it's a bunch of Russian satellite states with some natural resources. with a population as same as Chinese Hebei province.

I think you're talking about the 90s, not today or modern times. so you dont actually understand wtf you're talking about here.

 

[Han Patriot]

A nation of 1.4 billion and the world's largest industrial base with weapons almost on par with the US. Taiwan is going against this. US is going against this! Chinese people will volunteer to join the PLA for a reunification war, this is not just some war in some stans. This is a world war scale conflict if it happens. No Chinese will allow an independent Taiwan, just as no American will allow an independent Texas.

 

[Foinikas]

A nation of 1.4 billion and the world's largest industrial base with weapons almost on par with the US. Taiwan is going against this. US is going against this! Chinese people will volunteer to join the PLA for a reunification war, this is not just some war in some stans. This is a world war scale conflict if it happens. No Chinese will allow an independent Taiwan, just as no American will allow an independent Texas.

You communists have to understand that some people just don't want to be part of your country.
North Korea is obsessed with "reuniting" the country.
North Vietnam waged a war to "liberate" South Vietnam and succeeded.
And China wants to conquer Taiwan.
They don't wanna reunite with the mainland. They love their way of life and political system.
Just like the South Koreans would fight to the death than become part of the nightmarish parallel universe of North Korea.

Taiwan is Chiang Kai-Sek land,the Chinese there will fight against the PRC and the image of Mao.

 

[Zsari]

No doubt that the Iron Dome isn't our most capable system. But you're wrong about its capabilities, it is much more versatile than you think.

Those missiles aren't really equivalent, HQ-10 is simply too small to be compared (20kg vs 90kg)
RIM-116 range is closer in weight (70kg) but much shorter range (¬10 kilometers)
Iron Dome has a range of 70km (It's actually more than that, range has been improved in later updates)



Iron Dome isn't intended against ballistic missiles, you are correct. However I don't think it would be completely useless against it, a direct hit would neutralize a warhead I believe. It can withstand constant heat, but I don't know if it can withstand a fragmentation warhead. It hasn't been tested so I can't know for sure. It would work against heavy artillery for sure though.

Yes you are correct about the artillery thing, my mistake.

I am not here to defend Taiwan, I just tell you about the Iron Dome.

When the incoming rockets and missiles massively out numbers the interception missiles, even a 100% rate would be pointless.

 

[Beny Karachun]

When the incoming rockets and missiles massively out numbers the interception missiles, even a 100% rate would be pointless.

That's why there's going to be an Iron Beam laser defense system. To take care of that numbers problem.

Here's the Iron Dome intercepting hundreds of missiles at once:

 

[Han Patriot]

You communists have to understand that some people just don't want to be part of your country.
North Korea is obsessed with "reuniting" the country.
North Vietnam waged a war to "liberate" South Vietnam and succeeded.
And China wants to conquer Taiwan.
They don't wanna reunite with the mainland. They love their way of life and political system.
Just like the South Koreans would fight to the death than become part of the nightmarish parallel universe of North Korea.

Taiwan is Chiang Kai-Sek land,the Chinese there will fight against the PRC and the image of Mao.

Hey numb numb, do you know the constitution of the Republic of China aka Taiwan? Taiwan is a province inside China as per their own constitution. So wake up numb numb.

Communist? You seen billionaires in communist countries? Stock exchange? Damn you are dumber than I thought.

 

[gambit]

Ships will be very surprising seeing as Taiwan has almost no ASW, no ships with VLS, no ships with long range SAMs, no satellites, no OTH surface search radars etc. There is no mechanism by which they can even detect a 055 or 052D destroyer firing CJ-10 cruise missiles in the South China Sea towards Tainan. They have even less recourse to a 039 sub firing cruise missiles.

Because NONE of you guys ever served, all of you ended up making fools out of yourselves.

The PLAN buildup on mainland China will not go unnoticed.

The first sign will be financial as the central government direct money towards military contracts to build ships. The thing about the military is that we are not producer of anything. We destroys things. We consume without giving back anything tangible. In any country that have a military, there will be a 'military industrial complex' (MIC) and right now, your China have a good one. Profitable and more corrupted than you think.

Anyway...The market will notice the signs of a military buildup towards an invasion.

Once the buildup begin, the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will see the individual units. China cannot hide them. To transport hundreds of thousands of troops, the amphibious vessels will be evident on Google Earth for all. Not counting secret and superior resolution satellite imagery the US will send to Taiwan.

Not only that, precisely because the PLAN have no credible amphibious operations experience, the PLAN must conduct exercises as the buildup progresses, and that mean the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will be monitoring, at least via Google Earth.

Still think China can surprise Taiwan?

Iron Dome... ok, as a pilot you should understand that a Mach 2.2 max system with a 90 kg warhead is very unlikely to intercept a 500 kg IRBM warhead traveling at Mach 15. Iron dome has never been shown to intercept cruise missiles or ballistic missiles.

The issue is not the Iron Dome system itself and this is where you revealed your limited thinking. You should have realized that the platform itself can be modified to suit unique needs.

The problem with intercepting high Mach bodies have never been detection but about FLIGHT CONTROLS, as in maneuvering the interceptor to achieve a kinetic kill, aka 'direct contact'.

In a head-on or collision navigation in missile interception...Example...

Development of guidance laws for a variable-speed missile (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

The most used guidance law for short-range homing missiles is proportional navigation (PN). In PN, the acceleration command is proportional to the line-of-sight (LOS) angular velocity. Indeed, if a missile and a target move on a collision course with constant speeds, the LOS rate is zero. The speed of a highly maneuverable modern missile varies considerably during flight.​

The interceptor have only one chance, which is why in the early days of ballistic missile defense, proximity explosive methods, even the nuclear type, were used. Look up Nike-Zeus program.

Iron Dome have proven that the interceptor can be precise enough achieve FIRST ATTEMPT contact kill.

Will the US deploy Iron Dome to protect bases in the Gulf?

Iron dome has 85% interception rate, which means 15% will still pass through, resulting in tens of rockets hitting israeli cities, got it? https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-claim-beat-iron-dome-missile-interceptor-israel-disagree-2019-5 That article you posted was written before your...

defence.pk

Even if Taiwanese defense intercept a Chinese ballistic warhead 100 meters from ground, the defense is successful.

You can bet your next yr's salary that behind closed doors, Taiwan and Israel are talking.

 

[Han Patriot]

Because NONE of you guys ever served, all of you ended up making fools out of yourselves.

The PLAN buildup on mainland China will not go unnoticed.

The first sign will be financial as the central government direct money towards military contracts to build ships. The thing about the military is that we are not producer of anything. We destroys things. We consume without giving back anything tangible. In any country that have a military, there will be a 'military industrial complex' (MIC) and right now, your China have a good one. Profitable and more corrupted than you think.

Anyway...The market will notice the signs of a military buildup towards an invasion.

Once the buildup begin, the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will see the individual units. China cannot hide them. To transport hundreds of thousands of troops, the amphibious vessels will be evident on Google Earth for all. Not counting secret and superior resolution satellite imagery the US will send to Taiwan.

Not only that, precisely because the PLAN have no credible amphibious operations experience, the PLAN must conduct exercises as the buildup progresses, and that mean the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will be monitoring, at least via Google Earth.

Still think China can surprise Taiwan?


The issue is not the Iron Dome system itself and this is where you revealed your limited thinking. You should have realized that the platform itself can be modified to suit unique needs.

The problem with intercepting high Mach bodies have never been detection but about FLIGHT CONTROLS, as in maneuvering the interceptor to achieve a kinetic kill, aka 'direct contact'.

In a head-on or collision navigation in missile interception...Example...

Development of guidance laws for a variable-speed missile (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

The most used guidance law for short-range homing missiles is proportional navigation (PN). In PN, the acceleration command is proportional to the line-of-sight (LOS) angular velocity. Indeed, if a missile and a target move on a collision course with constant speeds, the LOS rate is zero. The speed of a highly maneuverable modern missile varies considerably during flight.​

The interceptor have only one chance, which is why in the early days of ballistic missile defense, proximity explosive methods, even the nuclear type, were used. Look up Nike-Zeus program.

Iron Dome have proven that the interceptor can be precise enough achieve FIRST ATTEMPT contact kill.

Will the US deploy Iron Dome to protect bases in the Gulf?

Iron dome has 85% interception rate, which means 15% will still pass through, resulting in tens of rockets hitting israeli cities, got it? https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-claim-beat-iron-dome-missile-interceptor-israel-disagree-2019-5 That article you posted was written before your...

defence.pk

Even if Taiwanese defense intercept a Chinese ballistic warhead 100 meters from ground, the defense is successful.

You can bet your next yr's salary that behind closed doors, Taiwan and Israel are talking.

China don't even need to invade Taiwan, just blockade Taiwan and then they will starve to death,the economy will collapse overnight, the elites will run. Hell China don't even need to blockade, just announce and give the elites 2 weeks to withdraw money and assets, the mere threat will make the whole economy collapse.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Because NONE of you guys ever served, all of you ended up making fools out of yourselves.

The PLAN buildup on mainland China will not go unnoticed.

The first sign will be financial as the central government direct money towards military contracts to build ships. The thing about the military is that we are not producer of anything. We destroys things. We consume without giving back anything tangible. In any country that have a military, there will be a 'military industrial complex' (MIC) and right now, your China have a good one. Profitable and more corrupted than you think.

Anyway...The market will notice the signs of a military buildup towards an invasion.

Once the buildup begin, the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will see the individual units. China cannot hide them. To transport hundreds of thousands of troops, the amphibious vessels will be evident on Google Earth for all. Not counting secret and superior resolution satellite imagery the US will send to Taiwan.

Not only that, precisely because the PLAN have no credible amphibious operations experience, the PLAN must conduct exercises as the buildup progresses, and that mean the world, not just Taiwanese intelligence services, will be monitoring, at least via Google Earth.

Still think China can surprise Taiwan?


The issue is not the Iron Dome system itself and this is where you revealed your limited thinking. You should have realized that the platform itself can be modified to suit unique needs.

The problem with intercepting high Mach bodies have never been detection but about FLIGHT CONTROLS, as in maneuvering the interceptor to achieve a kinetic kill, aka 'direct contact'.

In a head-on or collision navigation in missile interception...Example...

Development of guidance laws for a variable-speed missile (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

The most used guidance law for short-range homing missiles is proportional navigation (PN). In PN, the acceleration command is proportional to the line-of-sight (LOS) angular velocity. Indeed, if a missile and a target move on a collision course with constant speeds, the LOS rate is zero. The speed of a highly maneuverable modern missile varies considerably during flight.​

The interceptor have only one chance, which is why in the early days of ballistic missile defense, proximity explosive methods, even the nuclear type, were used. Look up Nike-Zeus program.

Iron Dome have proven that the interceptor can be precise enough achieve FIRST ATTEMPT contact kill.

Will the US deploy Iron Dome to protect bases in the Gulf?

Iron dome has 85% interception rate, which means 15% will still pass through, resulting in tens of rockets hitting israeli cities, got it? https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-claim-beat-iron-dome-missile-interceptor-israel-disagree-2019-5 That article you posted was written before your...

defence.pk

Even if Taiwanese defense intercept a Chinese ballistic warhead 100 meters from ground, the defense is successful.

You can bet your next yr's salary that behind closed doors, Taiwan and Israel are talking.

The PLAN naval buildup is already happening. 20 destroyers were launched in the past 10 years with another batch of 16 on its way.

What is Taiwan doing about it? Nothing.

They don't have the blue water assets to contest sea control around Taiwan.

Interesting how you keep talking about amphibious this, amphibious that as if the blue water assets don't matter.

 

[MH.Yang]

That's why there's going to be an Iron Beam laser defense system. To take care of that numbers problem.

Here's the Iron Dome intercepting hundreds of missiles at once:

en, What about 240k every 5 min?
Why do you think PLA and Hamas are at the same level?


Taiwan is 130 km away from the mainland, and China's WS2D rocket has a range of 480 km. The Nanjing Military Region has 40 rocket gun battalions, more than 500 long-range rockets gun, and each vehicle launches 48 rockets in one round.
The rocket will fire first and destroy all known targets. We don't care about any interception system. If 240k rockets are not enough, we can repeat it. Then the other weapons come on.