The curious case of Indian Punjabis

[Urbanized Greyhound]

what war on sikhs.. Can you show me any articles on that.
and in others Muslims bunt alive Hindu saints

Protection of Sikhs by right wing Hindu RSS

Sikh intellectual and author of 'A History of the Sikhs', Khushwant Singh, credits members of the RSS with helping and protecting Sikhs who were being targeted by members of the Congress(I) political party during the 1984 Anti-Sikh Riots.[25] Singh who otherwise has been critical of the RSS and believes that it is a " communal organization and dangerous to the country's secular fabric"

"RSS has played an honorable role in maintaining Hindu-Sikh unity before and after the murder of Indira Gandhi in Delhi and in other places"
"It was the Congress (I) leaders who instigated mobs in 1984 and got more than 3000 people killed. I must give due credit to RSS and the BJP for showing courage and protecting helpless Sikhs during those difficult days. No less a person than Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself intervened at a couple of places to help poor taxi drivers.

He conveniently forgot to highlight this. After all the attempts at demonizing Hindus , some things were quite overlooked.

 

[jetti]

He conveniently forgot to highlight this. After all the attempts at demonizing Hindus , some things were quite overlooked.

we are fools to feed his trolls. First he is a liar as he has not disclosed his location which is Canada. Thus he has no credibility.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Its true ---you do view everything through a religious prism , is it not ?

That's why its Islami Jamhuriya e Pakistan and Republic of India ( secular) . Minority rights or treatment is not an issue , what matters is what is constitutionally promised.

Besides the point was about an Indian Punjabi's distaste for his motherland.

I seem to recall you people advising the same to some Pukhtoon posters who were critical of Pakistan . You lot told them to get the hell outta your land and back to Afghanistan didn't you ?

So no surprises here, I guess.

Afghans not Pakistanis... just 1 guy PashtunKhan.. who turned out to be a Imran Khan supporter n fed up by GoP!

 

[raavan]

we are fools to feed his trolls. First he is a liar as he has not disclosed his location which is Canada. Thus he has no credibility.

can u read???????????

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Afghans not Pakistanis... just 1 guy PashtunKhan.. who turned out to be a Imran Khan supporter n fed up by GoP!

Same here I suppose ,

If some member form the erstwhile NWFP suddenly goes berserk and denounces the Durand Line and how he is missing his brothers in Afghanistan and even accuses the Pakistani Govt of creating "enmity" , its absolutely unpatriotic behavior isn't it ?

Anyways as Jetti remarks , until we ascertain who this Raavan Guy actually is , wouldnt want to continue on this thread .

Regards

 

[Rusty]

Auranjeb reinstated the Jizya . Regardless of how legitimate Muslims considered it , it was still a burden of oppression for the Hindus and historically Auranzeb was well aware of the fact. Guru Tegh Bahadur was executed and his sons slain ( eldest sons died in battle while the younger two were bricked alive in a wall --for refusing to change their faith ), The Jatts revolted under Auranjeb's policies , So did the Marathas ( Shahaji Bhosle was an administrator at the Sultan of Bijapur's court , it took Shivaji -his son an open revolt after Aurangzeb lured him to court, humiliated him because of his faith and placed him under house arrest .
Revolt against all Muslim rulers was because of the difference of faith between the elite ruling class of medieval times and the common folk , the vast majority of whom were Hindus.

That is historically documented. One or two contradictory accounts or even instances cannot cloak the atrocities done in the name of religion.

And Muslims had to pay the Zakat which is also a burden. Do you think it is fair for Hindus to pay a Muslim religious tax?
NO, but it is also fair that Muslims pay more tax then Hindus? NO, to make it fair both pay the same tax just under different name. As for the Sikh guys, they were revolting against a ruler, what do you expect? Roses? You even said one of the sons died in BATTLE. who was he battling? the King of course. As for the conversion, it wasn't a forced conversion as Hindus and Sikhs like to see it. Rather is was a last ditch attempt to save the guys life. The penalty for treason, which he committed is death. Arungzeb offered him one last chance by becoming Muslim. He refused, so he was punished for treason. Simple as that.

Why do we then see hardly any prominent person in Pakistan who is of a different faith. The % of minorities is no excuse , it simply shows that the conditions prevalent in Pakistani society have not been conducive for their growth in population and affluence for the last 60 years .



Not even one Police Chief ? Not even one scientist ? In India even a Parsi , is spotted in high positions. Do you know the % of Parsis in India ? Must be less than 0.001% .

At least the Sikh Diaspora worldwide is living testament to how industrious and hardworking the sikh community is , so its like I said --very much an anomaly.

Muslims make up -97% of the population, the rest of the 3% is divided between Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, and others. are you seriously expecting to see a flood of high level Sikh officials form less then 3% of the population?
By this same logic USA is an evil bigoted country b.c Native american, Chinese, or even Indians are not represented in all the Governments. So once again, this is not a case of people unable to come to these positions, but rather demographics.

Furthermore, are ALL your minorities represented in High level government?
Of course not, and I would never expect them to be.

We have at least 3-4 Muslim presidents , several Muslim vice presidents , billionares ( Aziz Premji ) several other personalities --very much prominent but that's no comparison given that Indian Muslim population is about 150-160 millions.

You can compare the Sikh population in India . Its 1.9% of the total population. Now compare the prominence of Sikhs here --in the Army , civil services , Industry , Polity etc etc

Its the truth which may seem like Anti-Pakistan bias but that does not make it any less true. Not anti-Islam bias for sure but anti-fundamentalism bias.

I am very happy to hear about Muslims in India achieving these high levels and I hope more of them do.
the only question I have is that are the proportionate? are 15% of these high levels being represented by Muslims or are they lower then that

Also what are you basing your Pakistani "facts" on?
If you have been to Pakistan and seen what is going on first hand then please let me know.

You are free to talk about India's problems but considering the state of our country , the peace , development and acceptance ..I would say we are indeed ahead.

Besides , If I were an American or any other nationality would you lend me your ears more willingly ? Try to see my points beyond nationality .
Regards,

I am in no way trying to say this offensively but the Indian government doesn't even have control of 40% of its own territory!

there are reports of indigenous people being muscled out of their ancestral lands for development.
One brave state didn't allow TATA to build a factory because it was to be built on farmers land.
And lets not even get into the Kashmir situation.

The point is, please please please don't think that India is some kind of shining success story, it is not.
Once you start believing that everything is great, then that leave for no more room for improvement.
Both India and Pakistan are struggling with their own problems, unfortunately Pakistan has bad PR and some people are taking advantage of that.

But I do believe that both countries can and will improve into success stories.

 

[r3alist]

agree or shut up is better than agree or be killed as Salman taseer found out. So we are not too far off to equate Pakistan with muslim fundamentalism

Mocking the death and unfortunate situation, real classy.

What are we seeing here, the ganging up of another Indian BY INDIANS, just because he feels differently.

In another thread at another time you you will talk about how liberal you are

He is speaking many good points, I think one attempt at a rebutta, the rest is abuse.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Mocking the death and unfortunate situation, real classy.

What are we seeing here, the ganging up of another Indian BY INDIANS, just because he feels differently.

In another thread at another time you you will talk about how liberal you are

He is speaking many good points, I think one attempt at a rebutta, the rest is abuse.

Errrmmmm... Do you see us calling for this thread to be shut down, or the user to be banned? No, right. He's giving his opinion and we're giving ours. Sure we might be a little harsh but what else do you expect us to do?

 

[r3alist]

But I agree, this is too close to the bone, mods should close this thread for the Indians, not coping too well.

 

[r3alist]

Errrmmmm... Do you see us calling for this thread to be shut down, or the user to be banned? No, right. He's giving his opinion and we're giving ours. Sure we might be a little harsh but what else do you expect us to do?

You are doing something perhaps more insidious, you are bullying him and hounding him, telling him to get lost, to shut up and name calling.


That's aside from the extremist bigotry that every Indian basically threw in a remark of how Pakistan is terroristic and whatever, I hope you Indian liberals are real proud of yourselves.

 

[Kadamba]

we are fools to feed his trolls. First he is a liar as he has not disclosed his location which is Canada. Thus he has no credibility.

The only useful post in this marathon thread, till now.

 

[Dalai Lama]

You are doing something perhaps more insidious, you are bullying him and hounding him, telling him to get lost, to shut up and name calling.

That's aside from the extremist bigotry that every Indian basically threw in a remark of how Pakistan is terroristic and whatever, I hope you Indian liberals are real proud of yourselves.

Sure, some people get pissed off with all the brotherly feelings tamasha. Read Gounder's posts, he explains why. Plus, this raavan guy needs to be a bit clearer with his posts. We still don't know what he's getting at. Maybe he should explain himself instead of beating about the bush.

 

[r3alist]

Sure, some people get pissed off with all the brotherly feelings tamasha. Read Gounder's posts, he explains why. Plus, this raavan guy needs to be a bit clearer with his posts. We still don't know what he's getting at. Maybe he should explain himself instead of beating about the bush.

Brotherly feelings, you are not that good at spin, this has all been quite venomous.

And ofcourse I won't explain his post for him, but he doesn't need to have "a point". If that was a requirement this forum would have 90% less posts.

I can see his feelings were expressed, what he is thinking internally, and he shared it? Maybe this is what aroused anger??

Anyhow, this is not my idea of open minded free speech loving people discussing, this is harassment.

 

[SQ8]

Another example that this combined "people" of Indo-Pak arent that different when it comes to some elements of behavior.
Find somebody from your nation that talks off the normal track...steps to follow

1. Try to interpret the post as if it was less controversial than it was, in an attempt to save the image of your countrymen and bring this "lost soul" back into the flock.

2. If the above fails, use brute force and abusive language to get him in line or shut him up. Explain to him the Massive sacrifices borne by the nation to get where it is today and how he should be thankful for it.

3. If the above fails, declare the poster a persona non grata in the community. Try to find insulting terms over his current flag, if an expat.. insult on basis of not knowing the ground realities.

4. if the above fails,Deny the person belongs to your nation altogether. After all, there cant be such black sheep in the pristine and shining hoard of white patriots who will do their best to paint a rosy picture.

If anybody has had the patience to go through the thread, you can see this trend.

 

[zootinali]

I am a Punjabi ( hindu/sikh) . I belong to a small town near Amritsar.Last year, I had the opportunity of going to Wagah Border to see the Flag ceremony. The land and people on the either side of the fence were no different.I could not help but wonder why did punjab( Indian) choose to be a part of India rather than Pakistan or Viceversa for Pakistan punjab....Punjab has its own unique culture which is very similar on either side of the fence to the best of my knowledge.

What I do not understand is why a state like Punjab has to be paired up with other places like tamil naidu or assam.I do not speak tamil,do not understand their culture and probably will never go there since we are 2000kms apart from each other.I do respect all the cultures and I think everyone should be proud of their identity.But I find it extremely weird that on one hand punjab is clubbed with Assam which is culturally so different and on the other hand a place which is 90% similar and only 50 miles away i m not allowed to visit.

It is not even a question of religious tolerance as before partition muslim,hindus and sikhs used to live together and still do in India. Even right now there is a town 10 kms away from my place where every sign post or advertisement board is written in urdu...and we live happily together( i cannot read urdu). the elders in my village elders(really old guns) always share their fond memories of pre partition days,Lahore features unequivocally in almost all of these conversations i must say. will visit lahore for sure one day.have to see what is all the hype about.after all its not made of gold.is it.lol

Two years I had to come to canada due to obvious reasons.I met so many people from Punjab(pakistan) and we get along so well.Lahoris are not very fond of Karachiites i learnt.lol

When u think about it India was most prosperous before it was India.............

I don`t know how relevant my words are here with respect to your query, but here in Assam we `ve got a good numbers of sikhs,who we fondly call "our sikhs" they migrated here during ahom-burmese war to help our ahom king and since then they decided to stay here forever.they married our local women (obviously no one brings there women folks to war zone and since they were young and brave so ....) any way check out this link i thought it would be interesting for you,after all the thread is all about curious cases of Indian punjabis The Sikh Times - News and Analysis - The Sikhs of Assam
btw do come to North-east someday mate