Karskin: Thanks for an Excellent Post. Very informative and very good illustration of a rather complex logic why should we fight for the USA.
“” In Pakistan's case however, all the Americans have asked for in exchange of an alliance is that we keep our territory from being utilized to make violence against them””.
Absolutely. The above sentence is the key to the whole premise. Pakistan’s territory should not be used to wage war against USA, absolutely right. Pakistan is neither Canada nor Mexico. It has no shared border with USA. Therefore there is no question of waging a direct or proxy war against the USA.
Back in 2001 the USA declared the whole world as an open battlefield. The US conferred on itself the privilege to invade Afghanistan and later Iraq. The whole premise of 9/11 AQ hijackers is murky and vague to this day, none of the alleged hijackers were either Iraqi or Afghans. A rapid-fire UNSC resolution and the sham drama of Bonn Conference provided the fig leaf of “legitimacy”.
In plain words the US has invited itself to Afghanistan. Pakistan has no business supporting them or opposing them. The basic problem is that Pakistan has unnecessarily conferred on itself the role of an “Ally”, which it is not; no one takes us more than a poorly paid Collie or Camp follower.
It is the honorable thing to do since (despite what else the US has done in the world) the vast majority of Pakistanis don't want war with the US.
“You are either with us or against us”. Back in 2001 the US bluffed its way with our weak kneed military administration, and you still seem to be hanging by the same thread. For too long the Pakistani nation has been scared to death by bogeys like this. Even at the best of times the US simply did not have the capacity to ‘shove LGB’s down our throat” or to “bomb us into the stone age”.
The funniest argument though was for the “Security of our Strategic Assets”. The most primitive “strategic” capability introduces an element of uncertainty that anybody is loath to mess with.
Pakistani nation has starved itself to death for past decades to be able to live with the minimum level of dignity, while enduring abject poverty.
Scaring the nation from bogey unknowns is the greatest betrayal of Trust.
These 'citizens' can choose to live in peace in Pakistan, or they can choose to leave if they insist on war with the US
Why should the citizens of Pakistan leave its territory for opposition to the USA? These citizens are not asking for Pakistan Army to engage the US Army. They are simply following the call of their conscience, for which they are entitled.
Why should’nt YOU leave Pakistan and live where you feel confident.
How dare you even think about comparing Hazrat Imam Hussein to the likes of Betullah Mehsud or Ghazi of Lal Masjhid
My dear there is No Comparison as such. Betullah Mahsud is not equal even to dust on the shoes of Hazrat Imam Hussein.
When you go to mosque and say your Sunnah, you are following the practice of the Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Does this mean that you are “Comparing” yourself to the Holy Prophet?
So, if these “bad guys” have adopted the Sunnah of Imam Hussein never to bow head to Tyranny, what’s wrong with that?
Qazi, Qazi, Qazi ….
I seriously tried to understand your obsession with Qazi Hussein. I never took Fazl-ur-Rahman or Qazi in any serious perspective before. But it seems he is causing a bit of upset to the lobby that thrives on waging American war against its own people. I presume his son(s) are grown up adults and are responsible for their own actions. If they have the same ideology as their father they will soon find themselves in Quantanamo bay, or worse!
Personally I have much more respect for Imran Khan; but I know very well that he will not be able to gain traction even in 5 decades (a la Asghar Khan).
Karskin: I am a poorly educated person from an area that was wallowing in misery and poverty to start with. Beginning in 2002 the Musharraf government started selective bombings / killings for the entertainment of visiting US dignitaries. Rumsfeld, CENTCOM commander, even small time officials had to be delighted with some gory episodes. Beginning 2004 came the full-scale Army operations in Waziristan, which finally petered out. Since the 2007 adoption of US dictated “multi-pronged” piece meal strategy Swat, Bajaur and now Mohmand / Khyber have joined the fray.
The key objective was to drive a wedge between the Army and the people of these areas; and between different Pakistani ethnic groups. Remember the events of May 11, 2007and Dec 2008 in Karachi.
It may sound cynical, but the greatest healer for national unity has been the entry of men of conscience (your definition of bad guys) from Punjab. It has had beneficial impact to mitigate the FATA Pushtoons sense of isolation.
“” In Pakistan's case however, all the Americans have asked for in exchange of an alliance is that we keep our territory from being utilized to make violence against them””.
Absolutely. The above sentence is the key to the whole premise. Pakistan’s territory should not be used to wage war against USA, absolutely right. Pakistan is neither Canada nor Mexico. It has no shared border with USA. Therefore there is no question of waging a direct or proxy war against the USA.
Back in 2001 the USA declared the whole world as an open battlefield. The US conferred on itself the privilege to invade Afghanistan and later Iraq. The whole premise of 9/11 AQ hijackers is murky and vague to this day, none of the alleged hijackers were either Iraqi or Afghans. A rapid-fire UNSC resolution and the sham drama of Bonn Conference provided the fig leaf of “legitimacy”.
In plain words the US has invited itself to Afghanistan. Pakistan has no business supporting them or opposing them. The basic problem is that Pakistan has unnecessarily conferred on itself the role of an “Ally”, which it is not; no one takes us more than a poorly paid Collie or Camp follower.
It is the honorable thing to do since (despite what else the US has done in the world) the vast majority of Pakistanis don't want war with the US.
“You are either with us or against us”. Back in 2001 the US bluffed its way with our weak kneed military administration, and you still seem to be hanging by the same thread. For too long the Pakistani nation has been scared to death by bogeys like this. Even at the best of times the US simply did not have the capacity to ‘shove LGB’s down our throat” or to “bomb us into the stone age”.
The funniest argument though was for the “Security of our Strategic Assets”. The most primitive “strategic” capability introduces an element of uncertainty that anybody is loath to mess with.
Pakistani nation has starved itself to death for past decades to be able to live with the minimum level of dignity, while enduring abject poverty.
Scaring the nation from bogey unknowns is the greatest betrayal of Trust.
These 'citizens' can choose to live in peace in Pakistan, or they can choose to leave if they insist on war with the US
Why should the citizens of Pakistan leave its territory for opposition to the USA? These citizens are not asking for Pakistan Army to engage the US Army. They are simply following the call of their conscience, for which they are entitled.
Why should’nt YOU leave Pakistan and live where you feel confident.
How dare you even think about comparing Hazrat Imam Hussein to the likes of Betullah Mehsud or Ghazi of Lal Masjhid
My dear there is No Comparison as such. Betullah Mahsud is not equal even to dust on the shoes of Hazrat Imam Hussein.
When you go to mosque and say your Sunnah, you are following the practice of the Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Does this mean that you are “Comparing” yourself to the Holy Prophet?
So, if these “bad guys” have adopted the Sunnah of Imam Hussein never to bow head to Tyranny, what’s wrong with that?
Qazi, Qazi, Qazi ….
I seriously tried to understand your obsession with Qazi Hussein. I never took Fazl-ur-Rahman or Qazi in any serious perspective before. But it seems he is causing a bit of upset to the lobby that thrives on waging American war against its own people. I presume his son(s) are grown up adults and are responsible for their own actions. If they have the same ideology as their father they will soon find themselves in Quantanamo bay, or worse!
Personally I have much more respect for Imran Khan; but I know very well that he will not be able to gain traction even in 5 decades (a la Asghar Khan).
Karskin: I am a poorly educated person from an area that was wallowing in misery and poverty to start with. Beginning in 2002 the Musharraf government started selective bombings / killings for the entertainment of visiting US dignitaries. Rumsfeld, CENTCOM commander, even small time officials had to be delighted with some gory episodes. Beginning 2004 came the full-scale Army operations in Waziristan, which finally petered out. Since the 2007 adoption of US dictated “multi-pronged” piece meal strategy Swat, Bajaur and now Mohmand / Khyber have joined the fray.
The key objective was to drive a wedge between the Army and the people of these areas; and between different Pakistani ethnic groups. Remember the events of May 11, 2007and Dec 2008 in Karachi.
It may sound cynical, but the greatest healer for national unity has been the entry of men of conscience (your definition of bad guys) from Punjab. It has had beneficial impact to mitigate the FATA Pushtoons sense of isolation.