The atrocities in the 1971 civil war

[Veer]

I agree with AgNoStIc MuSliM

Few Hindu loving mukti could not have achieved nothing if you did not shelter, trained and financed them. Separation of Pakistan has more to do with bharat, anti Islamic elements and traitors joint conspiracy than common east Pakistanis.

Musjib's and his whole family's violent death, mukti being miss treated by most Bangladeshis, death of other awami leaders, killing target of awami leaders, label as bharati dalal and awami out of power most of the time in the history modern Bangladesh proved my theory.

Till few days back i used to amused with you garbage, then i come to know You are not Bengali Muslim as a Bangladeshi friend replied to your post stating that you are a Razakar who hate Bangladesh and want it to be become epicenter of terror and undeveloped.

 

[Al-zakir]

Till few days back i used to amused with you garbage, then i come to know You are not Bengali Muslim as a Bangladeshi friend replied to your post stating that you are a Razakar how hate Bangladesh and want it to be become epicenter of terror and undeveloped.

And what your point. Not everyone in Bangladesh are bharati dalal like awami munafiq that shake hand with Hindus to kill Muslims. Their ill wish of make Bangladesh a Hindu minded state failed in 75 and that is our biggest achievement.

You are right. This al badur- al shams is not a Bangladeshi at all the way he carries him self.. look at the way this satan speaks.

At least I am not bharati hindu dalal. Am I you munafiq.

 

[mujib.khan]

1.Let us not detract from academics. This is an important subject for the people of the subcontinent.

2. However, I wish to clarify this Hindu-Muslim mathematics.
a. In the total 1971 exodus, around 90 % was Hindu. Of this, only about 10% participated in fighting. In Occupied Bangladesh the Hindu population had come down to literally zero.
b. Of the 10% exodus (Muslims), 90% or more took part in actual fighting.

3. Within Occupied Bangladesh, except Biharis and Jamaat cadres, practically the entire population had become involved in helping the Liberation fighters in some way or the other. Pockets, and even secure areas, were created by the Mukti Bahini practically from the beginning. This shows the resolve and motivation of the Resistance, which had received absolutely no indication from political leadership of things to happen. As such there had been no preparation.

4. Beginning Apr 1971 Teliapara Tea Garden Conference, the Bengalee military officers had managed to raise and train a vast force of regulars as well as irregulars. By Oct practically the entire countryside came under their control. Pak Army had become totally dejected. Some intelligent officers started realizing they had been taken for a ride by a debauched and corrupt leadership who neither understood what "Pakistan" stood for nor cared two figs.

 

[gogbot]

1.Let us not detract from academics. This is an important subject for the people of the subcontinent.

2. However, I wish to clarify this Hindu-Muslim mathematics.
a. In the total 1971 exodus, around 90 % was Hindu. Of this, only about 10% participated in fighting. In Occupied Bangladesh the Hindu population had come down to literally zero.
b. Of the 10% exodus (Muslims), 90% or more took part in actual fighting.

3. Within Occupied Bangladesh, except Biharis and Jamaat cadres, practically the entire population had become involved in helping the Liberation fighters in some way or the other. Pockets, and even secure areas, were created by the Mukti Bahini practically from the beginning. This shows the resolve and motivation of the Resistance, which had received absolutely no indication from political leadership of things to happen. As such there had been no preparation.

4. Beginning Apr 1971 Teliapara Tea Garden Conference, the Bengalee military officers had managed to raise and train a vast force of regulars as well as irregulars. By Oct practically the entire countryside came under their control. Pak Army had become totally dejected. Some intelligent officers started realizing they had been taken for a ride by a debauched and corrupt leadership who neither understood what "Pakistan" stood for nor cared two figs.

I am not sure about the validity of those numbers.

But what are you trying to say here

Some intelligent officers started realizing they had been taken for a ride by a debauched and corrupt leadership who neither understood what "Pakistan" stood for nor cared two figs.

 

[Skies]

Stop look back before 2000. There is no benefit at all.

Indians are always interested in these sort of discussions to create mis-understanding with their irreverent logics.
Convert ur ideas, thinkings, knowledges for the future relation with Pak. If it is not possible good relation with Pakistan then, at least, stop look back in past.

 

[mujib.khan]

I am not sure about the validity of those numbers.

But what are you trying to say here

=====
a. I speak from personal knowledge. It is upto anyone to check with those of that generation. It must, however, be said that in an upheaval and din like a total peoples' war, it is impossible to keep precise records / data.

b. I am referring to the corrupt debased Pak military/political leadership of the time. The print media - Pak, Indian and world were full of the amours of Yahya and Co. Even some books of the time written by Pak military officers mention these. I am surprised you didn't know!

 

[TopCat]

Stop look back before 2000. There is no benefit at all.

Indians are always interested in these sort of discussions to create mis-understanding with their irreverent logics.
Convert ur ideas, thinkings, knowledges for the future relation with Pak. If it is not possible good relation with Pakistan then, at least, stop look back in past.

Ya my ex girl friend says the same thing about our relationship.... no wonder.

 

[eastwatch]

Ya, it's well done but not any big done as these developments are usual with the elapse of times and generations.

Well recovered by BD. Also we have very fertile land so we can recover our natural disasters like flood quickly.

After the devastating cyclone in 1970, President Yahya Khan failed to visit his another Pakistan. No relief materials arrived from Karachi. It came only a few weeks after the foreign relief materials arrived.

AL seized the opportunity, made this indifference as an election issue and won a lanslide victory. Then, it was not handed over the power, that resulted in the division of Pakistan and creation of Bangladesh.

Language was not an issue at that time, although people of today love to say it. Issue at hand is more important to the voters than an issue of the past. 1970 cyclone was the single most reason that AL won the election.

 

[blain2]

Leaving out all of the emotional issues and agreeing with Eastwatch on the reasons for the East Pakistani feelings against the government in WP, I must say militarily the insurgency was very much under the control of the troops in East Pakistan. Indian invasion is what resulted in West Pakistan's military position becoming compromised.

There were western reporters on the ground throughout the earlier part of 1971 who saw the Army take action against those who had picked up arms and without an exception, where ever Army took action, it consolidated. This is a fact (from historical standpoint) that has been concealed by the fog of all of the other things that went on in East Pakistan in 1971.

Had Indians not invaded, the East Pakistanis could not have come up with a favourable situation on the ground.

 

[TopCat]

After the devastating cyclone in 1970, President Yahya Khan failed to visit his another Pakistan. No relief materialsd arrived from Karachi. It came only a few weeks after the foreign relief materials arrived.

AL seized the opportunity, made the indifference as an election issue and won a lanslide victory. Then, it was not handed over the power, that resulted in the division of Pakistan and creation of Bangladesh.

Language was not an issue at that time, although people of today love to say it. Issue at hand is more important to the voters than an issue of the past. 1970 cyclone was the single most reason that AL won the election.

What was the issue of 1954 election when Jukto Front secured 223 out of 237 seats?

 

[toxic_pus]

Had Indians not invaded, the East Pakistanis could not have come up with a favourable situation on the ground.

Lets agree with you for the argument's sake.

Now tell us, after denying the people of East Pakistan their legitimate political right; after suppressing the rebellion of 70 million people through a genocide, where the number of deaths is preceded only by the murderous deeds of Hitler and Pol Pot; after massive defection from armed forces and administrative services, that had left these services devoid of any Bengali representation; how do you suppose you had continued running a part of your country where the entire population was against you. What do you think would have happened if Yahya had actually managed to hang Mujib, by far the most popular leader among the Bengalis? Would you have trusted the Bengalis again? Or could the Bengalis bring themselves to trust the West Pakistanis ever again? Would you have given them their due after their rebellion when, you didn't, couldn't and wouldn't do the same when they were utmost loyal to you?

 

[gromell]

Independence was an illusion , illusion created by external forces

Every thing starts with spread of rumors, and wispers , its called psycalogical warfare that most of ordinary Pakistani were not aware of , and it includes attack on mindset and free thought process.

After 1965 war , the external forces , and spy agencies were active , and also Pakistan was embargoed with weapons sanction from our you know who FRIEND ... and our fleet was outdated or getting old - so it was hard for us to defence our freedom and our brothers in east - this gave chance to enemy - spies to plant seeds of deceptions


"ALOT of the allegations would start with - WE HEARD ... a news or certain group
heard a news this was going on - where did they heard the news who told who
becomes lost in translations - its quite possible the same ppl who spread the rumors
were same ones that left bombs and gunned down , ppl in certain villages "

E.g is we see similar strategy being employed in Karachi , target killing etc just a point I am trying to make - most of times these operations are carried out by highly trained spies and other resources whose main purpose is to spread confusion and assit in goals


An Illusion was created that some how, west Pakistan was gaining alot of beef, from deals reality is that East already had rich farm land and highly developed cities , East while had great farming as well had constant problemcs with floods and other issues.

Secondly - roughe leaders were given funds, to launch their polical - destability campaiges by other nations -

a) How Bangladesh was inferior
b) How they had no trade revenues
c) How they are under privlidged
d) How they can be independent , Free nation

A new leader was "created" to incite the schemes and revolts
his job was to spread , lies and polictical seggration issues based on race , the strategy is nothing new.


British and others used the strategy to divide Ottoman empire. The basic principle of that strategy is to prob up nationationalistic views based on race, and then bring in disrupt to a nation's progress, once the job is done the , "PERSON" normally the political leader is Assasinated - which creates a VOID , and then the SYSTEM install any
person of choice to rule of the population via Proxy system


So as far as I know as soon as the "FREEDOM" qoutes , was achived, what happend nothing

a) Bangali leader was assasinated right after the freedom was achieved
b) The party the was suppose to be all 4 Bangali people turned out
to be just someoe who robs the poor in end
And so call freedom was controlled by Army eventually
c) Bangladesh , has not prospered - since 70's its the same nation it
was even with all of the "SO Called" REVENUE now it recieved


WHY DID THE PEOPLE IF EAST PAKISTAN NEVER FOUND THE IDEALS THEY SEEKED , where did all those ppl went who promised the green lush glories , and independence - they were gone their job was done - East Pakistan just became another state , with limited rousources, and unable to make any political statemet on world

Its done before - its easier to control smaller sized nations then giant natios who spread , across thousads of miles like china or russia - its a global game -

Same floods come in each year, killing people , and same old misery

In the end it is the Military in Bangladesh that came to power - so all those dreams of democracy and freedoem laid to rest -

Mean while Pakistan as continued to develop - and to be honest we miss our brothers for east greatly its a sad chapter in our history


If Indeed , Pakistan was robbing Bangladesh severely - why did they not prosper after the divide , its simple , it was all illusios and stories created to , incite people to revolt - once the job was done the people singing the tunes, and hyping up issues left with their bags in the special operation bags not before getting ride of the old ally -

Why would they risk all the old friendly contacts being exploited ???


If Pakistan and Pakistan West was together - we would have now been both Nuclear power and by now 1-2 dams were built to solve Bagladeshis flood problems I am 100% sure on that issue.

I think the biggest flaw in the story is the idea that if Bangladesh was formed , some how it would be the biggest greatest nation , but it did not happened, and before people realised that and revolted they were locked down political free speech taken away from them and Army was in charge -


What every happens All pakistanis still love our brothers from east -

We see a similar campaign taking place now , in balouchistan but we have Nuclear weapons and lots of fighters its not as, it was before when we had no airforce in East Pakistan -


Further Read
Arab Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Displays how race was used as a weapon to divide Ottoma Empire

Regardless brothers in East Pakista will always be our brothers -

Naked propaganda at its best. good job. let me take this opportunity to congratulate you on your marvelous accomplishment in preaching the falsehood and thereby distorting the history.

Even the mighty US army with its NATO force could not suppress the Taliban insurgency and you guys are making up stories here on how Bengali freedom fighters were controlled?! Well Taliban don't enjoy widespread support in Afghanistan while Mukti Bahini enjoyed support of 99% of the population! If it seemed controlled in the middle of the war, it was because of strategy of counterattacking at the end of monsoon season when it will be difficult for Pakistani Army to mobilize in Bangladeshi terrain. It does not take an Erwin Rommel to understand that! Bangladeshi mukti bahini did not have enough trained soldiers and it needed to train the civilians. It needed at least one or two months for that. Those were the months that Pakistani Army believed it had tamed the war. Beside why are you making Indian help such an issue? which war was won without allied support? Muhammad peace be upon him made allies in the war against Quraish. Both world wars were fought with allied helps. Strategic reason might be different between allies but if the primary objective is common then why not?! Any country in India's position would have done the same. Bangladeshis needed help. India provided us with that. Pakistan played immaturely. They paid with the most embarrassing defeat. "East Pakistan insurgency" was never controlled. Infact it was no insurgency to begin with. It was a war of independence. How do I know? Because I am from Bangladesh. Bangladeshis saw what happened, you did not see it. Don't pay attention to those false stories. It might be bad for your health.

Pakistan was indeed robbing and the reason why Bangladesh did not prosper is because the state currency was held by Pakistan in Karachi and it was not returned to Bangladesh. Bangladesh was war torn and even before 71, Pakistan relied on Saudi donation, which was not coming to Bangladesh after 71 because of Pakistani diplomacy. In 70s the price of Jute fell. Jute was the biggest foreign currency earner of Pakistan. Pakistan used that money to industrialize West Pakistan while they kept East Pakistan agricultural and the source of raw material of the country. Obviously after independence Bangladesh did not have the industrial complex to carry on where it left. To complete the recovery process after the war and that too by supporting a fairly large population, it took Bangladesh whole 70s and 80s. Bangladesh is improving now alhamdulillah and its economic growth is better than Pakistan. In fact Bangladesh does not need to beg money from donors like Pakistan was begging in 2009. Pakistan's inflation rate is so high that BD Taka has higher exchange value than PK rupee. and How could you forget your PM going to Japan and in other countries raising funds for you to survive in Pakistan? In North America there was this SMS fund raiser for Pakistan. I can't remember Bangladeshis trying to beg for alms like that!

Why are you talking about floods and the devastation we have to suffer? This is from Allah and did you forget Kashmir Earthquake? beware, your ridicule will come back at you like a boomerang. that's the rule.

Who told you we had highly developed cities and great farming?! that's biggest BS i have ever heard. even to date, we are struggling to keep up our agricultural production and have to constantly import cattle for beef and agricultural products from India. There are very few developed cities now and there were highly developed cities in 1960s?! have you gone insane?

oh here is something that might cheer you up! Bengali leader was assassinated by military guys trained in your west pakistani PMA. 5 of them were just executed by hanging in the last 24 hours. 6 of them are hiding in your Pakistan. I congratulate you again, on giving asylum to bunch of killers who killed not only a great leader but his 7 year old son, pregnant daughter in law and another daughter in law who had been married for just 2 months. Great job again. Allah subhanawata'ala will pay you people what is due for this activity in the after life inshAllah. and finally, this assassination was planned by ISI and CIA. You were fuming about Indian intelligence activity in 71. Well you guys are not bad either! your specialty is plotting to kill women and children. hmm...not bad.
beside why are you looking at ISI mission in Bangladesh? In assassinating political leaders, you guys have far more experience in your own land.

in 1971, You heard, your army committed and we suffered and experienced. we did not hear about it, we saw it happening infront of our eyes, we experienced it.

Pakistan's nuclear program was initiated by a Bengali- Hossain Shaheed Suhrawardy. And there is no need to be so proud of your nuclear capability. It was stolen technology, or in more accurate wording it should be called smuggled technology by someone named Abdul Qadir Khan who smuggled the tech from the Netherlands while he was a mere engineer in the facility there. Your nuclear program started with our money. and now you Pakistanis have to assure Indians, USA and Israel that it is in safe hands and not in Taliban's hand. You have to request them so that they don't take your toys away.

Your breadth of knowledge shines gloriously when you declare how generous Pakistanis would have been if we were still together and you guys would have built 1 or 2 dams in our river. You have no bloody idea at all about the flood problem in our country. There is more dam in our country than you can ever dream of. There are localities which are situated on the dam. It will take 20 Pakistan to finance half of the necessary dams in our country. and even then there is no guarantee given the geography and climate. We had actually seen enough of those generosity in 1970 Bhola cyclone. Well at that time, Bangladesh was East Pakistan, no?! Where were you guys then? How could the great dam building nation called Pakistan suffer the deadliest tropical cyclone in human history? or was it also Indian spies disguised as storm surge and flood who killed half a million people?

Bangladesh has developed. the donation Bangladesh receives is decreasing while Pakistan's receiving alms is increasing. Again, my heartfelt congratulations! and one thing that you guys did not understand in 71 and even today you are ignorant about it, is what independence truly meant for us. We fought for independence to get away from the munafiki we received from you. Pakistan was never ruled by any real Muslims. It was all fake words of Islamic brotherhood. There existed no brotherhood from your side. You guys could do the worst to us for your benefit. It was in your culture. We needed to get away from you people just to survive, not to be great, big nation. We knew what we were doing and we knew exactly why Indians are aiding us and we wanted it so badly that alhamdulillah we achieved it. Don't feel bad for us. But if you need, we are ready to help you in your bad times. You see, we are no munafiks. As a Muslim, it saddens me to see how unislamically you guys are ruling your country and it is slowly moving towards a failed state. You need donations from Zionists to buy your people food and then spend billions of $(also donation) to buy F-16. You guys have a term "Islamic Republic" before Pakistan and then run some of the largest brothels in south asia and do you know what we call it when our military takes over govt. by suffocating the democracy? "Pakistani Formula" we reckoned no one deserves this honour more than you guys.

 

[Skies]

Bangladesh is improving now alhamdulillah and its economic growth is better than Pakistan. In fact Bangladesh does not need to beg money from donors like Pakistan was begging in 2009. Pakistan's inflation rate is so high that BD Taka has higher exchange value than PK rupee. and How could you forget your PM going to Japan and in other countries raising funds for you to survive in Pakistan? In North America there was this SMS fund raiser for Pakistan. I can't remember Bangladeshis trying to beg for alms like that!

BD does not have to face the situation that currently Pakistan is facing, the war against terrorism, Talibans, conspiracy, threat from other countries etc. Pakistan has to spend a lot for the war going on there now . Have you forgotten that after 1998 flood how much AL begged for donation to the foreign? How much donation AL begged to Clinton during his visit in BD by showing the slums and poor people?

Pakistan's nuclear program was initiated by a Bengali- Hossain Shaheed Suhrawardy.

Elaborate it with proof as I do not know about it.

And there is no need to be so proud of your nuclear capability. It was stolen technology, or in more accurate wording it should be called smuggled technology by someone named Abdul Qadir Khan who smuggled the tech from the Netherlands while he was a mere engineer in the facility there. Your nuclear program started with our money.

If someone gets the chance to steal such a tech for military purpose then why he will buy that with lots of money? To me stealing of military tech is legal. And show me some other nation who has built their nuclear tech without help of other nation except USA, Russia, and Japan! And do you think if BD will get the all nuclear tech then BD can use these successfully as it needs to be talent to use it? Remember still there is no nuke plant, what a shame.

Your breadth of knowledge shines gloriously when you declare how generous Pakistanis would have been if we were still together and you guys would have built 1 or 2 dams in our river.

Kaptai dam

and project (important source of our electricity) was made in Pakistan period. After then how many big dam has built? So do not bull.

You guys have a term "Islamic Republic" before Pakistan and then run some of the largest brothels in south asia

Say, where it is and how it is the largest in Asia?

and do you know what we call it when our military takes over govt. by suffocating the democracy? "Pakistani Formula”

Do not mess up all together. You cannot blame others for ur problem.

**BTW, I won’t say your post is wholly wrong. But I must accuse you for seeding unfriendly attitude between BD and Pakistan relationship. It's so sick and bad of you that when Pakistanis and we want to build good relation forgetting the past then you busy with you wicked intentions.

 

[TopCat]

BD does not have to face the situation that currently Pakistan is facing, the war against terrorism, Talibans, conspiracy, threat from other countries etc. Pakistan has to spend a lot for the war going on there now . Have you forgotten that after 1998 flood how much AL begged for donation to the foreign? How much donation AL begged to Clinton during his visit in BD by showing the slums and poor people?

This is the first time when BD did not officially asked for international help. I still remember Hasina's comments that we dont want relief. You are coming up with wrong information all the time.

If someone gets the chance to steal such a tech for military purpose then why he will buy that with lots of money? To me stealing of military tech is legal. And show me some other nation who has built their nuclear tech without help of other nation except USA, Russia, and Japan! And do you think if BD will get the all nuclear tech then BD can use these successfully as it needs to be talent to use it? Remember still there is no nuke plant, what a shame.

We did not got nuclear as we did not want to. BD built thermo nuclear plant before France in 1962 and it was done by the state government not the central govt.

Kaptai dam

and project (important source of our electricity) was made in Pakistan period. After then how many big dam has built? So do not bull.

Irrelevant. We dont have any other river which is feasible for Dam or hydrau electricity.

Do not mess up all together. You cannot blame others for ur problem.

**BTW, I won’t say your post is wholly wrong. But I must accuse you for seeding unfriendly attitude between BD and Pakistan relationship. It's so sick and bad of you that when Pakistanis and we want to build good relation forgetting the past then you busy with you wicked intentions.

We charge a Pakistani $2 for visa processing fee whereas Pakistan charges us $120 dollar if you live in USA. Do your math and dont break your head.

 

[blain2]

Lets agree with you for the argument's sake.

Now tell us, after denying the people of East Pakistan their legitimate political right; after suppressing the rebellion of 70 million people through a genocide, where the number of deaths is preceded only by the murderous deeds of Hitler and Pol Pot; after massive defection from armed forces and administrative services, that had left these services devoid of any Bengali representation; how do you suppose you had continued running a part of your country where the entire population was against you. What do you think would have happened if Yahya had actually managed to hang Mujib, by far the most popular leader among the Bengalis? Would you have trusted the Bengalis again? Or could the Bengalis bring themselves to trust the West Pakistanis ever again? Would you have given them their due after their rebellion when, you didn't, couldn't and wouldn't do the same when they were utmost loyal to you?

Number of deaths preceded by Hitler and Pol Pot? Nice one. Not even close is the reality. While I do not deny many East Pakistanis were killed, the number is nowhere even close.

The operations were not genocide. The Army action killed civilians without a doubt, but it was not one to kill off the entire East Pakistani population. So leave off this stretch of imagination with terms like "genocide" because not only are Pakistanis not buying it, the rest of the world also did not agree with this classification and the UN never considered the Pakistani operations or the resulting war in the context of "Genocide".

After you wrote the entire paragraph above, how is it any different than what you have done in Kashmir? At least 70,000 people have died (these are low ball estimates) and you have implemented a military solution to the point you thought you could come up with some semblance of a political structure to be put in place. Pakistan could have very much done the exact same.

East Pakistanis were not distrusted by all and from the beginning. There were hard-headed people on both sides of the conflict. East Pakistanis would have trusted the West Pakistanis the same way BDs and Pakistanis do things now. Time heals and you get over issues because this is not a personal issue. It was over differences of policies. Mistakes were made by the GoP and that is a realization, but the two people never bore ill-will toward each other (exceptions aside).