The Arab civilisation then and now

[BLACKEAGLE]

No, I just provide you with a quote by one of the most respected historians, and you still keep hanging on this: most scientists were Arabs. No, most of the best Islamic scientists were Persians and spoke Persian.

Inventions of wine, alcohol and fruits?!!!! Are you serious?!

 

[Surenas]

I have already posted a list of Arab inventors. All you are doing now is parasatizing on others achievements and civilization since you have contributed nothing to human kind. This is pathetic.

Of course there were Arab inventors, but most of the best were of Persian descent. Why is that hard for you to acknowledge? Look at the Wikipedia page:

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During this time, Indian, Asyriac, Iranian and especially Greek knowledge was translated into Arabic. These translations became a wellspring for scientific advances, by scientists from the Islamic civilization, during the Middle Ages.

Scientists within the Islamic civilization were of diverse ethnicities. Most were Persians,[3][4][5][6] Arabs,[5] Moors, Assyrians, and Egyptians.

As Ibn Khaldun, the fourteenth century Arab historiographer and sociologist suggests, it is a remarkable fact that with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars in the intellectual sciences were Ajams ("Persians"):
Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent… they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar … great jurists were Persians … only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' … The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them … as was the case with all crafts … This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture.
—Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah, Translated by Franz Rosenthal (III, pp. 311-15, 271-4 [Arabic]; R.N. Frye. p. 91.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Haha, noway. Not in my scientific world.

It's true that there were many scientists of Persian origins, but there were lots of Arab contributions as well. Other members have already provided you with information on Arab scientists & scholars, so there is no need for me to do the same.

Initially in the Arab caliphates, the scientists & scholars began to translate & learn the forgotten & neglected books of the Greco-Roman civilizations, the Vedic civilizations, & many others. By gaining that knowledge they were able to make lots of contributions of their own as well. That is how it works, knowledge always flows from society to society. Similarly, during the Italian renaissance, scientists & scholars from Italy like Leonardo da Vinci learnt many things from Arabic sources & began to make their own contributions again.

 

[Surenas]

It's true that there were many scientists of Persian origins, but there were lots of Arab contributions as well. Other members have already provided you with information on Arab scientists & scholars, so there is no need for me to do the same.

I was not referring to the origin of the scientist during Islamic period, but to your statement that 'Arab' civilization can be placed next to civilizations like Greco-Roman. Greek scientific civilization is in my opinion superior to Arab or Iranian science.

 

[Wright]

there is no such thing as indian invention. Indian mythology doesn't count as inventions.

You appear to be self hating. You do know Bengal was part of India right?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Of course there were Arab inventors, but most of the best were of Persian descent. Why is that hard for you to acknowledge? Look at the Wikipedia page:

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What I am saying is that most of the inventors were Arabs and the rest only flourished under Arab rule. There were no serious persian achievements but under our rule. All you are doing right now is trying to steal others history since you have nothing to be proud of. However, Away from Islamic era, You can look at what kind history we had through two pictures:

 

[Surenas]

What I am saying is that most of the inventors were Arabs and the rest only flourished under Arab rule. There were no serious persian achievements but under our rule. All you are doing right now is trying to steal others history since you have nothing to be proud of. However, Away from Islamic era, You can look at what kind history we had through two pictures:

Those civilizations I do not consider to be Arab. And not only I, but most historians. Why do you come always with those pictures? Can't you quote one scholar or historian of importance on this subject?

 

[Armstrong]

First off - Why are you hell bent on getting him to acknowledge that most of them were of 'Persian' descent as if thats supposed to mean anything ?

Secondly - 'Ajmai' doesn't mean 'Persian' its a blanket term for 'Non-Arabs' i.e I'm an Ajmai too !

Thirdly - There wasn't a 'Persian' or an 'Arab' Empire back then...they were just dynasties ruling a whole bunch of people from the Arabs, Africans, Persians, Indians, Turks etc ! Ever heard 'Saladin' saying 'I'm a Kurd' or that we're going to build ourselves a 'Nation for the Kurds called 'Kurdistan' where our generations are going to prosper and our culture and language preserved ?'.

 

[Wright]

I was not referring to the origin of the scientist during Islamic period, but to your statement that 'Arab' civilization can be placed next to civilizations like Greco-Roman. Greek scientifically civilization is in my opinion to superior to Arab or Iranian science.

I agree. Greeks founded the basics of many desciplines in use today. Democracy itself is owed to Greek philosophy. The number of Latin terms used in Law, business, science far exceeeds the Arab terms.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I was not referring to the origin of the scientist during Islamic period, but to your statement that 'Arab' civilization can be placed next to civilizations like Greco-Roman. Greek scientifically civilization is in my opinion to superior to Arab or Iranian science.

I said that the Arab civilizations made a lot of contributions to the world, similar to the Greco-Roman civilizations. I was not ranking them. Ranking different empires is an extremely difficult task, I doubt most people here are capable of ranking any civilization. A variety of factors have to be taken in to account to do so; all the way from law & order, scientific contributions, freedom of religion, etc.

The Greek civilization is my personal favorite too, after that, I was very fond of the Roman Empire.

 

[Luffy 500]

You appear to be self hating. You do know Bengal was part of India right?

Who fed you this myth. India never was a united country ever. Bengal was always a united country
ruled by bengali nawabs of turkish origin. It hardly ever came under mogul rule. Only muguls managed to unify a major portion of india and BTW mugols were muslims. Bengal like rest of indian princely states was never ever part of this artifitial entity called india. We were the last one to fall to british imperialism.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Those civilizations I do not consider to be Arab. And not only I, but most historians. Why do you come always with those pictures? Can't you quote one scholar or historian of importance on this subject?

So, they are not our ancestors?! You are not just trying to steal our achievements and history but denying that those great civilizations belong to todays Arabs?!! It couldn't be more pathetic.

 

[Surenas]

Secondly - 'Ajmai' doesn't mean 'Persian' its a blanket term for 'Non-Arabs' i.e I'm an Ajmai too !

Ajam in that sentence simply means Persian. You should look what Ibn Khaldun exactly said.

Here again he uses the term "Arab" to refer to the ethnic Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula and "Ajam" to refer to non-Arabs in general, though it often it referred more specifically to Iranian peoples from a sedentary Persian culture on the Iranian plateau. Ibn Khaldun made a distinction between being linguistically Arabized and being culturally Arabized. Cultural Arabization to him meant adopting a tribal, bedouin and desert livestyle and was opposite to the sedentary, urban culture, which was inherently non-Arab. Throughout his work he makes the point that Arabs during the early Muslim expansion, were indeed de-Arabized and to some degree adopted Persian and Greek sedentary culture. Also note that in medieval Islamic literature, there were two regions known as Iraq: the Iraq-e-Arab (Arab Iraq) and the Iraq-e-Ajam (Persian Iraq). The Persian Iraq mentioned by Ibn Khaldun is the historic Iraq-e-Ajam (Persian Iraq) which constitutes the triangle of Isfahan, Shiraz and Hamadan.

Muqaddimah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Srinivas]

there is no such thing as indian invention. Indian mythology doesn't count as inventions.

Vedas are not Mythology. Before second world war germans studied lot of sanskrit text for science and technological development. India all in all is a land of Rich culture and great technological past.
You name any field like medicine,astronomy,mathematics etc lot of significant inventions and discoveries are done in this land.If you don't know any thing about India just keep quite. Do not post your ignorant posts.

 

[Surenas]

So, they are not our ancestors?! You are not just trying to steal our achievements and history but denying that those great civilizations belong to todays Arabs. It couldn't be more pathetic.

Look above for what Ibn Khaldun (Arab) said about it.

I agree. Greeks founded the basics of many desciplines in use today. Democracy itself is owed to Greek philosophy. The number of Latin terms used in Law, business, science far exceeeds the Arab terms.

Exactly....