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The Algerian Armed Forces.

Lol, arrogance ? The only arrogance I have noticed is the one from you and other GCC fanboys. I have no reason to be arrogant at all - I am just stating the facts.

So, stating that you will have to sacrifice flying hours as a result of eastern air frames and engines is not stating facts?

It is well-known that several Arab countries with their air forces does not have high combat readiness - and they are massively dependent on Western assistance.

That may be so, but their is nothing pointing to Algeria being an exception to that rule. There is however evidence (the aircraft you fly) which points to you being an example.

Following Russian doctrine and using eastern aircraft will only ever result in lower combat readiness and combat effectiveness. The Russians remain in a rut with a large percentage of its AF, Navy, and Army unoperational.

You shouldn't worry about AAF at all. Your air force should rather worry about Israel - which can rape your air force in a couple of days (as always, no matter what fighters Egypt might have).

OK.

Algeria on the other hand is concentrated on terrorism, defending it's air space, having a "eye" on the regime in Morocco, and building its air force with its own pace.

As it should be.

Afterall, Algeria at least have their own money (190 billion USD in reserves) compared to another certain country that has to wait for the money from GCC terrorist regimes to fund their weapons purchases.

OK.

You don't understand what "reliant" means. It means that the West - or the U.S. especially will always choose Israel over any of your other states in the Middle East. Meaning, that you can never use your air force against Israel FREELY, EVER - because the U.S. would do what they did to Iran after 1979 and Venezuela since the 1990s. Full-scale embargo and sanctions on any possible Western tech or spare parts for their Western aircraft (Iranian F-14s and Venezuelan F-16s).

Soviets were not the most reliable partners either, nor are the current day Russians.

Algeria on the other hand doesn't need to "watch out" for Israel, as they're too far away, so that's not Algeria's problem. That should be Egypt, Jordan and GCC's problem - if they can soon stop killing other secular states in the Middle East by supporting terrorist groups

OK.

Second of all - Algeria would never be sanctioned by Russia on any spare parts or the aircraft as Algeria does NOT have ANY Russian ally that Algeria has "problems" with. The only problems Algeria has with are U.S./Western allies + islamic terrorism, thus Russia or China have ZERO reason to sanction Algeria in any way.

I'm sure the eastern block nations felt that way.

Yes, Egypt operates now S-300 VM, you can THANK Russia for that. Finally you have a SAM now that can be used freely, and won't be sanctioned by the U.S.

Apart from the PAC-3 nothing in the EAD inventory could be affected by US sanctions. Everything can be used freely.

How nice of the U.S. to finally deliver some Apaches to you, they were holding back now for a while, until the last week or so, lol lol.

Egypt already operated 35 AH-64D helicopters the additional ten are not as important as the PR out of the US and Egypt are making it out to be.

Furthermore I was talking about S-300PMU2 and not S-300VM. Most prefer to receive PMU2 over VM version. Iran didn't wanted VM version either, when they were offered that instead of PMU2, last year.

It's not a matter of preference but of requirement.

And S-400 is something Egypt is never going to get, but Algeria will. Same goes for PAK-FA fighter which Russia plans to export to Algeria when the time comes. I cannot see that Egypt will be allowed to operate PAK-FA or F-35 about 10 years from now on.

Because you have a crystal ball right!?

Once the S-300 line shuts orders for that system will diverted to the S-400. Egypt has been interested in the S-400 since 2009, you should maybe look that up.

PAK-FA isn't going to be anywhere near operational and exportable until a while after 2020, so you'll have to wait as well.

Anyway, good luck with your Egyptian Air Force against superior Israeli air power with Israeli-upgraded F-35s + Israeli subs with cruise-missiles. I am sure Egyptian Air Force will last about six days as they did last time

OK.

Your sole argument is based on what ifs and not on reality, in reality none of the Arab AFs are facing any sanction problems in the near future and if they were they would seek a replacement to their traditional suppliers.

What you've proved with this long rant which was only meant to offend others in order to inflate your ego is that you have no argument against what I had written before. The AAF gets less flying time than other AFs in the region and lacks vital components for net centric warfare. Along with being completely inexperienced in conventional warfare let alone modern air warfare and secluding yourself from the international exercise scene you might want to consider you're just not as good as you think you are.
 
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So, stating that you will have to sacrifice flying hours as a result of eastern air frames and engines is not stating facts?



That may be so, but their is nothing pointing to Algeria being an exception to that rule. There is however evidence (the aircraft you fly) which points to you being an example.

Following Russian doctrine and using eastern aircraft will only ever result in lower combat readiness and combat effectiveness. The Russians remain in a rut with a large percentage of its AF, Navy, and Army unoperational.



OK.



As it should be.



OK.



Soviets were not the most reliable partners either, nor are the current day Russians.


OK.



I'm sure the eastern block nations felt that way.



Apart from the PAC-3 nothing in the EAD inventory could be affected by US sanctions. Everything can be used freely.



Egypt already operated 35 AH-64D helicopters the additional ten are not as important as the PR out of the US and Egypt are making it out to be.



It's not a matter of preference but of requirement.



Because you have a crystal ball right!?

Once the S-300 line shuts orders for that system will diverted to the S-400. Egypt has been interested in the S-400 since 2009, you should maybe look that up.

PAK-FA isn't going to be anywhere near operational and exportable until a while after 2020, so you'll have to wait as well.



OK.

Your sole argument is based on what ifs and not on reality, in reality none of the Arab AFs are facing any sanction problems in the near future and if they were they would seek a replacement to their traditional suppliers.

What you've proved with this long rant which was only meant to offend others in order to inflate your ego is that you have no argument against what I had written before. The AAF gets less flying time than other AFs in the region and lacks vital components for net centric warfare. Along with being completely inexperienced in conventional warfare let alone modern air warfare and secluding yourself from the international exercise scene you might want to consider you're just not as good as you think you are.
hes just ignorant... he talks like a kid. just ignore him lol
 
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hes just ignorant... he talks like a kid. just ignore him lol

He's not ignorant, I read the previous page. I do agree with him in his points he made. Let's be honest about it.

@Frogman

I believe point he was making is that Egyptian/Jordanian Air Force are not equipped with necessary weapons to engage enemy aircraft. Regarding the F-16 fighter jets. And that is true. They can't engage Israeli Air Force. So it's unrelated to operational life span. The rest of argument was related to other weapon systems. Also usual argument regarding Israel. Which it seems you are unable to answer with all your expertise.

We know what he said was true. Why aren't Arabs doing anything about it? I am free to hear your or anybody else's theories. Certainly we are capable of changing that around. Especially with defense budgets of GCC. Don't give me excuse that it is irrelevant because Israel has nuclear weapons.

GCC is giving no proper explanation as to why it isn't filling these gaps which leave us in weak position in region and decades behind in ability to project offensive firepower or even defensive engagement. Neither are Arab military commanders. Please explain why Arab military leaders won't give no explanation to their people as to why we are not taking necassary measures to be able to at least defend our airspace from foreign aircraft. With this lacking, it puts in weak political position as well. We have no say in any political disputes in region. It is only foreign nations dictating what unfolds in every political dispute even though we make majority of population in this region.

Of course if I tell like it is, that these generals of our armies are not working in our interests but for foreign interests while they get benefits on the side you will flip the world upside down and ask for proof and the usual hysteria even though you can see it for yourself.

If we are not at least keeping with Israel on the military level then we have much to lose. Firstly, we have no political leverage in the region. Secondly, we have no ability to secure our interests in region besides the ones West agrees with. Thirdly, we will be forced to make political concessions as we have no military power to secure our interests. These three reasons are more than enough. I don't need to list more.
 
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What's the argument over here about?

He made a false statement about AFs in the region and then demeaned the PAF.

When presented with the counter argument he then resorted to the most basic of arguments that has been refuted a billion times. Firstly, spare parts and sanctions and then being able to use weapons 'freely'.

The Air Forces of nations using western supplied aircrafts will not oppose the US poltically resulting in sanctions (in the near future anyway) and if they did the PRC or Russia will be an alternative source for political and military backing. None of these nations have or are willing to start any programs that may result in blanket sanctions eg. Iran. This is mostly a political argument and not a technical one.

As for 'free' use, end user agreements generally outline what you can do with the platform itself rather than what you can use it for, for instance the integration of certain third party weapons systems or even allowing third parties access to the platforms (which Egypt has done with China). The Russians also have end user agreements in place.

He is making a naive mistake in believing the Russians are more reliable than the US, as well as having for the most part inferior equipment they are notoriously unreliable with spare parts deliveries, overhauls, co-production etc. India's experience with the T-90S and SU-30MKI are a testament to that. As is Egypt's when they withheld equipment and at times blackmailed Egypt into buying their stuff rather than developing our own (eg ballistic missile program and Helwan 300). The Russians just like the US will sell you down the river if need be, Bashar will be left to rot if Putin thinks its in the Federations interest.

Ibelieve point he was making is that Egyptian/Jordanian Air Force are not equipped with necessary weapons to engage enemy aircraft. Regarding the F-16 fighter jets. And that is true. They can't engage Israeli Air Force. So it's unrelated to operational life span. The rest of argument was related to other weapon systems. Also usual argument regarding Israel. Which it seems you are unable to answer with all your expertise

He wasn't saying that and it isn't true. You can't stop a semi active missile from locking on and engaging a target be it a bus or an IDFAF jet in the same way you can't stop a bullet come out of an assault rifle.
 
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He made a false statement about AFs in the region and then demeaned the PAF.

What was false about it?

When presented with the counter argument he then resorted to the most basic of arguments that has been refuted a billion times. Firstly, spare parts and sanctions and then being able to use weapons 'freely'.

The Air Forces of nations using western supplied aircrafts will not oppose the US poltically resulting in sanctions (in the near future anyway) and if they did the PRC or Russia will be an alternative source for political and military backing. None of these nations have or are willing to start any programs that may result in blanket sanctions eg. Iran. This is mostly a political argument and not a technical one.

You aren't getting the point he was making. Opposing US politically nowadays is actually working to secure your interests in your own region. Since US dominance over the Middle East is widespread, along with economic leverage they hold on world. This means they have broader spectrum of interests. So in reality doing anything other than what the US prefers you to do is considered opposing their interests. Which means you really have no political freedom.

And in any case of securing your interests, you won't get military/political support from US. This limits our right to self determination.

I agree about your point regarding Russia, it isn't as reliable as he make it seems when it comes to something like Israel. Or arming Iran with missile systems. Because this enters international arena. Regarding supporting a state in its own neighborhood over internal conflicts or conflicts with other Arab nations it is reliable.


He wasn't saying that and it isn't true. You can't stop a semi active missile from locking on and engaging a target be it a bus or an IDFAF jet in the same way you can't stop a bullet come out of an assault rifle.

As far as I'm aware Egyptian/Jordanian jets aren't allowed to operate missile systems on their American Air Craft. Due to peace treaties. However, Israel is allowed to operate most advanced ones which give them advantage in offensive capability. Arabs can't take offensive action anymore. Israel has weapons which enable it to have huge advantage in dogfights and gives them option to take offensive actions inside Arab territory without consquence which is a problem.
 
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What was false about it?

A lot more than 20% of jets are operational in all these air forces.

You aren't getting the point he was making. Opposing US politically nowadays is actually working to secure your interests in your own region. Since US dominance over the Middle East is widespread, along with economic leverage they hold on world. This means they have broader spectrum of interests. So in reality doing anything other than what the US prefers you to do is considered opposing their interests. Which means you really have no political freedom.

And in any case of securing your interests, you won't get military/political support from US. This limits our right to self determination.

I agree about your point regarding Russia, it isn't as reliable as he make it seems when it comes to something like Israel. Or arming Iran with missile systems. Because this enters international arena. Regarding supporting a state in its own neighborhood over internal conflicts or conflicts with other Arab nations it is reliable.

Again, you have proved my point, this is a political issue rather than a technical one.

As far as I'm aware Egyptian/Jordanian jets aren't allowed to operate missile systems on their American Air Craft. Due to peace treaties. However, Israel is allowed to operate most advanced ones which give them advantage in offensive capability. Arabs can't take offensive action anymore. Israel has weapons which enable it to have huge advantage in dogfights and gives them option to take offensive actions inside Arab territory without consquence which is a problem.

Nope.

The peace treaty between Egypt and Israel only stipulates troop and platform deployments in the Sinai and on the Israeli border (as well as the protocols involved in ensuring this) but the recent situation in the Sinai has made it redundant. None of the treaties signed have anything to do with armament, both AFs operate AAMs, AGMs, GBUs, HARMs etc. etc. freely
 
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@PRC2025

Don't respond to this Egyptian beggar dog. You can't talk sense with these people. If you ever wanted to explore stupidity and understand what stupidity is you go this shithole Egypt where everyone you encounter is slap happy stupid. He probably thinks Egypt is leader of Arab world even with 5 trillion debt. This population is retarded, its better to give them no attention. They need attention to the point where they threaten their own people with mass rape. In the shithole Egypt their women can't walk in the street without being sexually harrased by at least 50 men. They had chance to regain reputation in Arab world under Morsi but this pig population which is full of brainwashed moron zombies decided to tolerate another stooge. Their repuation is dirt now. Only their Jewish masters have positive views of them.

Return what you wrote in the first instance ya basha, show everyone your true colours.
 
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LOL, I didn't edit anything at all. Who's this 'everyone' you are talking about? The Yzd Khalifa suaid authorities? or blackeagle jordanian authorities? Or you the Egyptian authority representative? :lol:

30 Egyptian soldiers get blown up in Libya and the dogs of Jews respond by doing buffer zone in Gaza and killing a Palestinian child yesterday. You will always remain dogs of Jews you traitors to Arab world.

Wesharafak mghyartish haga ya ragel, belzima dah kalam. Mashi. We can add lying to your characteristics, msh hatfrik awy ya3ni.
 
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Wesharafak mghyartish haga ya ragel, belzima dah kalam. Mashi. We can add lying to your characteristics, msh hatfrik awy ya3ni.

Stop pretending like you had any decent feelings towards me. Sha3bko sha3b gabee fathtoo al 3alaam al3arabi ween thuwar al sha3b al masri kus ikht al cc
 
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Stop pretending like you had any decent feelings towards me. Sha3bko sha3b gabee fathtoo al 3alaam al3arabi ween thuwar al sha3b al masri kus ikht al cc

Rabina yakhaleek weyikramak ya basha
 
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hala sirt itamaan be rab? :D

Rabina yehdee alsha3b masree althuwar qaaadim yasqut yasqut hukm al3askar :cheesy:

Yaskot, yo3od msh hatfrik keteer law eltafkir wel mokh elwiskha elmogodda feh beladna matghayritsh
 
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Yaskot, yo3od msh hatfrik keteer law eltafkir wel mokh elwiskha elmogodda feh beladna matghayritsh

Yasqut hukm al 3askr almujaihdeen qadimoon :cheesy:

Itli3 aljaysh min al Sinai bidna inhaarb slaaaaaah :lol:

Bidna sawareekh fateh 110 ya basha :D
 
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