The absolute history of Ghilijis

[B.K.N]

who adopted 'Pakhto' tongue,

I think language is more important than ancestry

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Orange Pekoe. It's black tea. He wants black tea, and he thinks the internet is the best place to get it.

 

[Samlee]

Cricket?

No A Woman

But Not The Way You Might Think


And Besides I Stopped Caring About Cricket A Long Time Ago

 

[M. Sarmad]

I think language is more important than ancestry

The Nation State boundaries are more important than anything else, including language and ancestry.

 

[Crusher]

No surprise the Muslim Turkic people's of middle ages (Seljuks, Ghaznavid mamluks, turk delhi sultanat mamluks, Tatars, Chaghtai Mughals, khalaj/Khilji, Kipchak, Ottomans) all rocked the world, they were everywhere known for their bravery and ferocious fighting skills throughout Central Asia, West Asia, South Asia, North Africa, Balkans and East Europe.

 

[TNT]

There is nothing such as 'absolute' history.

And Ghilzais are predominantly Afghanistani. Thread posted in wrong section.

The Afghan proper are different from Pakistani Pathans.

And Ghilzais are distinct from both Afghans and Pakistani Pathans as they are of Turkish descent (with Persian admixture) who adopted 'Pakhto' tongue and culture, but they still are 'Opra'

One thing every Pakistani should know that pashtuns of both Pakistan and Afghanistan are descendants of same ancestors. The word pashtun was derived later and originally all pathan pashtuns are called as Afghans.
There is nothing bad about defining ur own origin. Pakistan as a country is multi ethnic. Punjab and si dhis are mostly in india, baloch are in iran as well, similarly pashtuns in Afghanistan as well. We all maybe from different ethnicities but now we are all Pakistanis.
Its not that as if these tribes are good with each other. Yousafzais the majority pashtun tribe in Pakistan are basically from kabul. They used to rule kabul and then were betrayed and killed by local kabul ppl and mughals. They migrated to current KPK areas of malakand, swat and dir and formed their own rule. Till end they fought off any lashkars from Afghanistan and its emir. At the same time pashtuns also fough mughals and then the brits.
Its also reason why pashtuns wanted to join Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

One thing every Pakistani should know that pashtuns of both Pakistan and Afghanistan are descendants of same ancestors. The word pashtun was derived later and originally all pathan pashtuns are called as Afghans.
There is nothing bad about defining ur own origin. Pakistan as a country is multi ethnic. Punjab and si dhis are mostly in india, baloch are in iran as well, similarly pashtuns in Afghanistan as well. We all maybe from different ethnicities but now we are all Pakistanis.
Its not that as if these tribes are good with each other. Yousafzais the majority pashtun tribe in Pakistan are basically from kabul. They used to rule kabul and then were betrayed and killed by local kabul ppl and mughals. They migrated to current KPK areas of malakand, swat and dir and formed their own rule. Till end they fought off any lashkars from Afghanistan and its emir. At the same time pashtuns also fough mughals and then the brits.
Its also reason why pashtuns wanted to join Pakistan and not Afghanistan.

The Pakistani Pathans are of indigenous origins. Afridis, Khataks and Dadis (Now Kakars) constitute the nucleus of the Pathans proper. Around this nucleus have collected many tribes of foreign origin.

The Afghan proper include the Tarin, Abdali or Durrani and Shirani, who have distinct origins from the descendants of the fugitive Gandhari, i.e. Yusufzai, Mohmand, and other tribes of Peshawar, who are Pathans by origin, but are more close to Afghans.

The Afghans and Ghilzais spread into Pathan territory and adopted their language and customs; and just as Irish, Scot and Welsh speaking the English language are commonly called Englishmen; so all who speak the Pakhto tongue came to be included under the name Pathan. Thus the Afghans and Ghilzais are Pathan by the virtue of their language, though not of Pathan origins.

 

[Crusher]

The Pakistani Pathans are of indigenous origins. Afridis, Khataks and Dadis (Now Kakars) constitute the nucleus of the Pathans proper. Around this nucleus have collected many tribes of foreign origin.

The Afghan proper include the Tarin, Abdali or Durrani and Shirani, who have distinct origins from the descendants of the fugitive Gandhari, i.e. Yusufzai, Mohmand, and other tribes of Peshawar, who are Pathans by origin, but are more close to Afghans.

The Afghans and Ghilzais spread into Pathan territory and adopted their language and customs; and just as Irish, Scot and Welsh speaking the English language are commonly called Englishmen; so all who speak the Pakhto tongue came to be included under the name Pathan. Thus the Afghans and Ghilzais are Pathan by the virtue of their language, though not of Pathan origins.

I have read somewhere that "Yusufzai" are likely the modified form of "Aspasoi" of ancient Kamjoba/Ghandhara border regions before Alexander's invasions. Aspasoi were one of the leading sub-tribe of Kamboja's in what is now Peshawar and Kabul valley. Even the word "Afghan" is also supposed to be modified form of Sanskrit nickname of Kamboja people which was "Asvakan" which meant "horse people", "horse breeders" or "cavalary men" in which ever sense we interpret it. Interestingly the first time the word "Afghan" is attested in local hindu texts around 5th century, it is in the form of "Avagan" and not as "Afghan" which again gives a strong indication of Asvakan-->Avakan-->Avagan-->Afghan word change over multiple centuries which is a common phenomenon with most other ancient names. Interestingly Kambojas did speak a so-called "Iranic language" which was somewhat different than Sanskrit but they were still able to communicate with Sanskrit speaking neighbors. I wouldn't be surprised if the nucleus of modern Pashto descends from ancient Kamboja's language and their nickname "Asvakan" giving rise to modern "Afghan" nickname of pashto speakers by their surrounding populations on the western side.

 

[TNT]

The Pakistani Pathans are of indigenous origins. Afridis, Khataks and Dadis (Now Kakars) constitute the nucleus of the Pathans proper. Around this nucleus have collected many tribes of foreign origin.

The Afghan proper include the Tarin, Abdali or Durrani and Shirani, who have distinct origins from the descendants of the fugitive Gandhari, i.e. Yusufzai, Mohmand, and other tribes of Peshawar, who are Pathans by origin, but are more close to Afghans.

The Afghans and Ghilzais spread into Pathan territory and adopted their language and customs; and just as Irish, Scot and Welsh speaking the English language are commonly called Englishmen; so all who speak the Pakhto tongue came to be included under the name Pathan. Thus the Afghans and Ghilzais are Pathan by the virtue of their language, though not of Pathan origins.

I know where ur coming from but this is view of brits and the way they classed them. Do u know khattaks come from south kabul, yousafzais from kabul and are descendants of suleman shah, ruler of kabul. Afghan is basically umbrella term for all Pashtuns. In old times areas were taken by raids and families established and marriages done. Every race have inter mixing with each other. KPK pashtuns even have greek DNA.
Afghan/pashtun history is very old and undocumented. Looking at current demographics, yousafzai are the majority pashtun tribe in Pakistan. Then come the khalil/mohmand, khttak n others. All these have roots in current day Afghanistan.

Current KPK was originally inhabited by gandharan pagans before Islam. Starting from around 800 AC muslim tribes started making their progress. The locals either migrated to tibet or converted and were given jobs to serve. The current pashtun population is offspring of those tribes that adopted these lands. Our village lands are still divided based on original families who settled here. The village land is equally divided only among these families. This is very old and coming to the starting of mughal era, pashtuns as usual fought alot with each other n with it they would migrate and regroup.
These different tribes fought each other and usually hated each others. There are famous sayings in pashtuns about different tribes, degrading each other. The tribes in Pakistani KPK in no way likes the ones in Afghanistan and vice versa. The creation of Pakistan was a main differentiating event that made two distinct blocks of Pashtuns. The KPK pashtuns decided to be in Jinnah's Pakistan, seeing their thousand years old history with qandharis and kabulis. Pashtuns like any other nation had voices against Pakistan and vouched for greater Afghanistan but those voices were and are a small minority. These all doesnt change fact that both side pashtuns are from same lineage. In pashto we say, tol da yao baba zaman yu. Means we r sons one baba.
With rise of Pakistan, pashtuns have also risen and will further rise as pashtuns achieve. Pakistan as multi ethnic country can capitalize on this and progress.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I
Afghan/pashtun history is very old and undocumented. Looking at current demographics, yousafzai are the majority pashtun tribe in Pakistan. Then come the khalil/mohmand, khttak n others. All these have roots in current day Afghanistan.

Yes, that's the main problem that leaves us with no option but to rely on the British accounts/systematic study of the Afghan history. All the tribes you mentioned have roots in current day Pakistan. Some of them (Yusufzai most notably) moved to Afghanistan in the sixth century. And then came back with the Durranis but Ahmed Shah gave them the title of "Bur" or upper Durranis to differentiate them from the original Durranis of Kandahar.

 

[TNT]

Yes, that's the main problem that leaves us with no option but to rely on the British accounts/systematic study of the Afghan history. All the tribes you mentioned have roots in current day Pakistan. Some of them (Yusufzai most notably) moved to Afghanistan in the sixth century. And then came back with the Durranis but Ahmed Shah gave them the title of "Bur" or upper Durranis to differentiate them from the original Durranis of Kandahar.

The English people conducted their surveys without consulting tribal elders and filled their documents. Surveyors were sent to far flung areas in 1800 to ascertain conditions and local ppl. These accounts are mostly biased and wrong. They just wanted to create a scenario to rule. They had their official system and thus that information became official and available to outside ppl. For example this theory of yousafzai migrating frm current KPK to kabul and then coming back is totally false. Such accounts are evident in some books written by Pashtuns and the poetry. Poetry abt leaving ur home n going to new lands.

Some historians even say pashtun history is 8 to 10 thousand years old. The more u go back in history, the location of these tribes move towards current day iran. Pashtuns came to current day Afghanistan very long ago and old poetry reveals they came from persia and western iran. With culture alligned with Islam, way before the last Prophet (SAW), it is believed by some they are of israeli origin and were genuine followers of Prophet Moses AS and migrated eastward because of clash with other israeli tribes for not folllwing the ten commandments and disobeying Moses AS. Some put them as the lost tribe os israel.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The English people conducted their surveys without consulting tribal elders and filled their documents. Surveyors were sent to far flung areas in 1800 to ascertain conditions and local ppl. These accounts are mostly biased and wrong. They just wanted to create a scenario to rule. They had their official system and thus that information became official and available to outside ppl. For example this theory of yousafzai migrating frm current KPK to kabul and then coming back is totally false. Such accounts are evident in some books written by Pashtuns and the poetry. Poetry abt leaving ur home n going to new lands.

Some historians even say pashtun history is 8 to 10 thousand years old. The more u go back in history, the location of these tribes move towards current day iran. Pashtuns came to current day Afghanistan very long ago and old poetry reveals they came from persia and western iran. With culture alligned with Islam, way before the last Prophet (SAW), it is believed by some they are of israeli origin and were genuine followers of Prophet Moses AS and migrated eastward because of clash with other israeli tribes for not folllwing the ten commandments and disobeying Moses AS. Some put them as the lost tribe os israel.

While the British accounts may be biased and imperfect, they are still the best and most reliable ones available to us today. Legends and popular folk tales regarding the origins and history of Pashtuns/Afghans are not validated by any evidence (or even common sense)

 

[TNT]

Some of them (Yusufzai most notably) moved to Afghanistan in the sixth century. And then came back with the Durranis but Ahmed Shah gave them the title of "Bur" or upper Durranis to differentiate them from the original Durranis of Kandahar.

Yousafzais did not come with durranis. In late 1400s Malik suleman shah the leader of yousafzais who were in kabul and south and were a growing force for mughals, who later became rulers of hundustan.Suleman shah along with all yousafzai leaders were invited for a peace deal by mirza ulagh baig, mughal ruler of kabul. 700 elders were killed to finish off the threat of yousafzais to a rising power of mughals. Nephew of suleman shah a kid named ahmad khan was spared. He along with the families migrated to current outskirts of peshawar. Slowly growing and taking over malakand, dir, bajaur, swat and buner. Ahmad khan was thus the first ruler of yousafzais on these lands and is known as malik ahmad khan baba. His mosoleum is in batkhela, malakand today. He is considered father of yousafzais, his bravery and war skills and conquests are famous among yousafzais. Yousafzai till end of mughal era have fought with them and retained their lands and after mughals fought with british.

Ahmad khan died in early 1500s. Durranis came to power in kandahar around 1740s, so yousafzais came to KPK more than 200 years before durranis even started their rule in kandahar. Also durranis are actually sadozai, a branch of pashtuns. Bar or northeners is used for yousafzais because of living in extreme north of pashtun areas, current boundry dir, as north of dir there are no pashtuns. Other tribes like sadozai andd bittanis occupied southern areas. Some tribes were in mid areas. This is a huge area between northern balochistan quetta to dir swat and westwards from qandahar to kabul. Pashtuns from north and south supported ahmad shah abdali known as ahmad shah baba among pashtuns, he was supported by all and hence holds high honor, he kind of united the ever fighting tribes and thus was militarily very successful.
Yousafzais of today still dont like people of Afghanistan for their betrayal. Yousafzais are also largest in number and hence influencing decision of joining Pakistan.

While the British accounts may be biased and imperfect, they are still the best and most reliable ones available to us today. Legends and popular folk tales regarding the origins and history of Pashtuns/Afghans are not validated by any evidence (or even common sense)

There are pashto books which came to light now with spread of knowledge n ppl finding the truth. Those old pashto books were never translated or copied. Also u cannot trust ur enemy version of history. Pashtuns have always fought against british and hence their version of us is not believable. Pashtuns of Afghanistan wont even look at british version.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yousafzais did not come with durranis. In late 1400s Malik suleman shah the leader of yousafzais who were in kabul and south and were a growing force for mughals, who later became rulers of hundustan.Suleman shah along with all yousafzai leaders were invited for a peace deal by mirza ulagh baig, mughal ruler of kabul. 700 elders were killed to finish off the threat of yousafzais to a rising power of mughals. Nephew of suleman shah a kid named ahmad khan was spared. He along with the families migrated to current outskirts of peshawar. Slowly growing and taking over malakand, dir, bajaur, swat and buner. Ahmad khan was thus the first ruler of yousafzais on these lands and is known as malik ahmad khan baba. His mosoleum is in batkhela, malakand today. He is considered father of yousafzais, his bravery and war skills and conquests are famous among yousafzais. Yousafzai till end of mughal era have fought with them and retained their lands and after mughals fought with british.

Ahmad khan died in early 1500s. Durranis came to power in kandahar around 1740s, so yousafzais came to KPK more than 200 years before durranis even started their rule in kandahar. Also durranis are actually sadozai, a branch of pashtuns. Bar or northeners is used for yousafzais because of living in extreme north of pashtun areas, current boundry dir, as north of dir there are no pashtuns. Other tribes like sadozai andd bittanis occupied southern areas. Some tribes were in mid areas. This is a huge area between northern balochistan quetta to dir swat and westwards from qandahar to kabul. Pashtuns from north and south supported ahmad shah abdali known as ahmad shah baba among pashtuns, he was supported by all and hence holds high honor, he kind of united the ever fighting tribes and thus was militarily very successful.
Yousafzais of today still dont like people of Afghanistan for their betrayal. Yousafzais are also largest in number and hence influencing decision of joining Pakistan.

Yousufzais came 'back' to Peshawar area in the early 15th century along with some Durranis/Abdalis. Ahmed Shah, who came much later, distinguished them from Kandahari Durranis by giving them the title of 'Bur' or upper Durranis. I hope you get my point now.

As for their earlier migration to Afghanistan from coterminous Pakistan, they were forced to leave their original home because of the forced entry of Sychtic tribes in the region in the 5th/6th century. They then settled on the banks of river Helmand and founded a city which they named 'Gandhar' after their native capital, which is now called 'Kandahar'.

The original Afghans of Ghor moved into the Kandahar country around eighth century where the Gandharis were settled. The Afghans adopted the language of Gandharis and the Buddhist Gandharis adopted the religion of Afghans i.e. Islam. They lived together for centuries, intermarried and fused together into a common nation although retaining some level of distinct identities. Yousufzais are the descendants of those Gandharis.


And as for Sadozai Pathans, they are of Usmanzai descent and are closely related to Yousufzais. Sadozai Afghans (Popalzai) are a different group. They gave Shahs to Kandahar. And Barakzai Afghans gave Emirs to Kabul. Popalzais, Barakzais, Alikozais etc. are Zirak Abdalis (or Durranis). Ghilzais/Khiljis are an entirely different nation/group of tribes.

There are pashto books which came to light now with spread of knowledge n ppl finding the truth. Those old pashto books were never translated or copied. Also u cannot trust ur enemy version of history. Pashtuns have always fought against british and hence their version of us is not believable. Pashtuns of Afghanistan wont even look at british version.

Of course, you are free to discard the British accounts and believe in your own legends and folk tales.

 

[dani92]

Bakhtyar destroyed one of the oldest universities in the world and massacred Buddhist monks.