Thailand Southern Muslim Insergencies

[Aepsilons]

I travel a bit cant seem to stick in 1 country but Originally Pakistani

Did you have an introduction thread?

Same here bro, I guess we're both global souls lol.

Yes I did have an intro thread!

 

[somsak]

good to know..But what about what the military themselves do in Pattani...How many in Thailand are aware of it? Just an honest question...Mind you I have been to Bangkok many times as a toursit but never to actually live there so I dont know much ground reality there....or the amount of awareness...
Every religion preaches good...if it preaches violence it is usually defined as a cult!
I never brought this in so I am going to assume it is for the other person you quoted.
It is easier to talk than take action I agree
You feed rebels for free? Sorry am not aware of this bit the rest I acknowledge yes Thailand did its fair share!
Ok since I didnt bring this in I am going to assume it is not for me...
I am more than happy to discuss it ...but as I mentioned earlier I dont have ground level knowledge of the country as I have only been there several times as a tourist...

Sorry did not understand the context of your last sentence...




Where are you actually from? I cant seem to find your introduction thread and you are new with 11 positive ratings already!

Sorry to make you confuse. Its my newbies here. I am talking to Carlosa who said he understand Thailand history/and been linving in Thailand for quite long time. Therefore I cut a lot of context explanation.

- For you: The farer from central government at Bangkok, the worst the corruption the government officials are. Therefore, it could be the case that government oppression is done by the hand of corrupted official.

- For you2: You confuse about Thailand feeding malaysian rebels. You need long history to understand. When Malaysia was just independent from British, they treat Chinese Malaysia (35% population) as 2nd class (even until now aday). This created chinese malaysian rebellious. Not all Chinese Malaysian was rebels, but one group of rebel was Chinese Malay. After years of fighting, these rebels lose and retreat into deep jungle. In deep jungle those days are very very wide jungle you cannot see the border line but its already inside Thailand territory. Finally, Malaysia agreed to end support for Pattani Independence in exchange for Thailand take these Chinese Malaysian rebellius group its citizen. Thailand did as promise. Nowaday you go to Bedong, Thailand, you can speak Chinese Dialect and the people there will understand. Thailand, however, think that Malaysia does not keep its promise and continue support southern insurgencies.
Therefore, I think that southern insurgencies are more race based than religious. However, I do not like the way they kill innocent people, a feature common to other Muslim news around the world. I conclude that their way of fighting inherits from Muslim method of fighting, which is considered "sins" in Bhuddist preaching.

 

[Carlosa]

- I am support of red shirts. I felt like one of us got kill. I am not happy with that.
- Bhuddism is a theory. It is a theory what we should do. Theories happened when it is difficult to implement in real life. However, it guides us not to kill living things. How can we survive without killing animals for food? Therefore, it is theory for us to be good. How couldn't we kill the occupies that occupy our homeland aka. enemy? We belief that we must be good people. How to define "good people"? It is defined by Bhudda's teaching.
- Thailand is a big issue. Please refer to your research on how immigrants are badly treated. I have been here my whole life I don't know. Coz during my life time, I never go up on any finshing boat. Have you? How many days? How many immigrants have you interview? Where are the statistics?
- Royal Thai Navy routinely catch boats with migrants and towed them to the high sea leaving them there to die?
Foreigner keep blaming us on our humanitarians but not offer their country for these people to migrate. If you are so humanitarians why don't you let these people migrate to your country? Thailand will be more than happy to do humanitarian arrangement.
Why don't we do it? We did it. A lot. Really really really a lot.
You see, during these 40 years, how many war migrants had we save? Cambodian camps freeing from Cambodia killing field, South Vietnamese migrants leaving Vietnam after the fall of Saigon, and the oppression of the Communist system. Numerous minority groups from Myanmar who escape the war between minority militants and the myanmar military government. Hmong Lao who support Lao King freed from Lao once communist Lao took over. Malaysia Chinese rebels who rebelled against malaysia government, now in Betong province. We feed them with Thai rice for free? I acknowledge a good will from US, Australia, and other western countries that help these migrants relocate to their land. I acknowledge a good will from UNHSC that provided money and management.
However, come with these migrants are potential enemy. During vietnam war, we are afraid that these boat migrants are actually soldiers. We are afraid that Rohingya will join the Pattani insurgencies. Do you really care about our problems? In our region, Thailand has been save haven for many groups since ancient time. Chinese migrants for better life. Mon migrants because the country of Mon was destroyed. Even the Thai themself was the migrants from the collapse of Nanzhao kingdom by Mongol. We did good enough about migrants. We also need to be selective as well.
You are correct about Thailand not that very strongly religous in Bhuddism. Bhudda used to say that "Do not belief the sentences because who spoke it was Bhudda himself". That means you can half belief Bhudda and still called Bhuddist.



May be ur right.



Sorry for late reply. Islam is religious of peace. You google this. and you know. There are always excuse.

I'm a bit surprised about your lack of knowledge about the burmese slave labor in the thai fishing boats, I guess the thai press doesn't talk much about that (for obvious reasons), don't you know that USA just blacklisted thailand (about a week ago) and place it at the highest level of people trafficking precisely because of the slave people in the thai fishing boats? I suggest you google search the issue and you'll find plenty of information. Never heard of any country where the navy and the immigration service capture migrants and sell them to traffickers as slave labor, that's unprecedented, Thailand has the honor of being number one on that practice.

There is nothing that you can say that can justify the issue of the fishing boats slave labor, you are avoiding the issue and avoiding responsibility, nothing can justify it or compensate for it, its an incredibly barbaric practice that has been going on for many years and as it is typical in thailand, they just avoid the issue and try to look the other way. "Mai pen rai" (never mind).

Just recently, an Australian published an article in a Pukhet newspaper about the role of the Thai navy in the slave labor trafficking and rather than investigating the issue, the navy sued the journalist for defamation, typical Thai response, just care about their image and to save face, fixing the problems, no need "mai pen rai".

For your information, in my country, Spain, as in Europe or other western countries, we get a lot of illegal immigrants, much more than in thailand, but we don't kill them or enslave them, actually, they get treated very well. They get the opportunity to apply for refuge status, many get accepted and if they are minors, or pregnant women, etc, etc, they are allowed to stay and work and they get put on welfare where they get good money until they are able to work. A little bit different than in Thailand, don't you think?

Again, Thailand has the honor of being the only one that does something like that. Stop the excuses and face the issue.

 

[Dubious]

Same here bro, I guess we're both global souls lol.

Yes I did have an intro thread!

Back to Thailand shall we?

 

[Dubious]

Thailand, however, think that Malaysia does not keep its promise and continue support southern insurgencies.
Therefore, I think that southern insurgencies are more race based than religious. However, I do not like the way they kill innocent people, a feature common to other Muslim news around the world. I conclude that their way of fighting inherits from Muslim method of fighting, which is considered "sins" in Bhuddist preaching.

Thank you for your explanation I agreed with your 1st part...and 2nd part I am not sure so I will ask my questions here:

1) Does Thailand have prove that Malaysia didnt keep its promise?
2) Wont it make things better if Thai won the support of the people of Pattani instead of pushing them to seek Malaysian aid?
3) Yes Pattani people are damn proud about their origins! But they are equally proud of being Thai...all the ones I have met were able to speak both Thai and their own language (sorry I cant remember what it is called)
4) The feature is common to anyone being oppressed...

Go to Africa you will see many Muslims, Christians and people of non Abrahamic faith religion fighting...unrest causes problems....discrimination causes problems....when you borderline someone and shut them off it causes problems...No religion teaches you to fight...

Net, you clearly said it is more race than religious but you dragged in Muslims...Mind you Muslim is not a race but one who practices Islam..

Their way of fighting is screaming out all the oppression bottled up...They dont really see any other way...Fair enough I am sure there are some really bad people (maybe even terrorists) but they exist everywhere in every community! BY not giving them a chance to stand up is by either giving autonomous authority to Pattani or by at least developing them...dealing with the problem instead of using military force maybe?!

 

[somsak]

Thailand should take care to respect the cultural sensitivities of it's Muslim subjects if it expects to win their support and loyalty . His Majesty King Bumipon should influence the Army to implement tactics that promote growth in the south and a culture of inclusion !



I agree, autonomy should be considered.

Thats I think what we are trying to do, except Autonomy. No autonomy allowed.
How about Ryukyu (japanese name Okinawa) autonomy?

Please read Quran. You will understand. "Struggle until all worship is nothing else but of the god" <- From Quran.
I read many verses.

 

[waz]

Therefore, I think that southern insurgencies are more race based than religious. However, I do not like the way they kill innocent people, a feature common to other Muslim news around the world. I conclude that their way of fighting inherits from Muslim method of fighting, which is considered "sins" in Bhuddist preaching.

Hello somsak, I'd like to say that those that kill monks, kill teachers and attack government buildings and so forth are terrorists. To kill with terror isn't something unique to Muslims and plenty of people employ such horrid methods. It is true that sadly we have what you might call an "overrepresentation" at this time period of such groups.

It is also "Muslim" to serve and love your country. You have general's like Sonthi Boonyaratglin who have served, I know he has controversies but who doesn't. Having travelled in the South myself the insurgents are a minority and don't wield much support, hence using terror attacks to make their presence bigger.

 

[somsak]

Net, you clearly said it is more race than religious but you dragged in Muslims...Mind you Muslim is not a race but one who practices Islam..

!

I will explain other points later. Let explain this one.

-- Example --
"Statistically speaking, the probability of yellow shirts close down Bangkok is much higher than red shirts". This statistics are collect by counting number of days yellow shirt forcefully prohibit people to 1 building in Bangkok.
---end academic---

Now why do I say the word "Muslim".
My point here is that "Should the Pattani people belief in Bhuddist, the probability of killing innocent in fighting would have been much much lower". Here is the explanation: Islam is a religous, so is Bhuddism. "Statistically, the probability of muslim killing innocents for political goal is much higher than Bhuddist"

 

[Dubious]

"Should the Pattani people belief in Bhuddist, the probability of killing innocent in fighting would have been much much lower".

Have you seen Khmer Rougue or even the recent Buddhist monks in Burma, WW1, WW2, Vietnam war or basically any war before war on terror Statistically it shows a Non Muslim killing anyone for that matter is rather high!

Why take selective stats?

 

[somsak]

Hello somsak, I'd like to say that those that kill monks, kill teachers and attack government buildings and so forth are terrorists. To kill with terror isn't something unique to Muslims and plenty of people employ such horrid methods. It is true that sadly we have what you might call an "overrepresentation" at this time period of such groups.

It is also "Muslim" to serve and love your country. You have general's like Sonthi Boonyaratglin who have served, I know he has controversies but who doesn't. Having travelled in the South myself the insurgents are a minority and don't wield much support, hence using terror attacks to make their presence bigger.

totally agree. Especially "overrepresentation" True also about Sonthi.

 

[waz]

t
Totally agree. Especially "overrepresentation" True also about Sonthi.

Thanks and believe you me there are many Muslims who work day and night to combat extremism. Sufis like myself also read about the inspirational life of the holy Buddah. So not everyone wants to kill, kill and kill.

 

[UKBengali]

What about the recent clashes between Bihari & Bengali Muslims in Bangladesh recently. Are u aware

No-one ever dies dude unlike India where thousands die in a single riot sometimes.

 

[Indos]

Thats I think what we are trying to do, except Autonomy. No autonomy allowed.
How about Ryukyu (japanese name Okinawa) autonomy?

Please read Quran. You will understand. "Struggle until all worship is nothing else but of the god" <- From Quran.
I read many verses.

1. We give autonomy to Aceh and Papua province, the amount of money we give to Papuan is huge each year.

2."Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution (fitnah) is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." (Quran: 2:190,193)

Meaning:

Before, in Ancient Time, Islam teaching was prohibited in many part of Rome Empire, so Muslim fought in order for the religion to be spreaded without any restriction and Muslim can practice Islam freely and without any fear.

But, in this modern era Islam can be spreaded without any restriction at all, same like for any other religion, so we don't have any reason to fight (jihad) any more. For example, Indonesia in the past didnt persecute Islam or Muslim, so there was no reason for any Muslim empire at that time to have any war with us, Islam can be conveyed in peaceful way.

Today, by just using internet we can learn Islam. No barrier any more. No need to fight at this situation. But, If in case there is any country in this world that make any persecution to Islam and Muslim in their region, so the reason to fight is coming up once more.

 

[Nike]

I will explain other points later. Let explain this one.

-- Example --
"Statistically speaking, the probability of yellow shirts close down Bangkok is much higher than red shirts". This statistics are collect by counting number of days yellow shirt forcefully prohibit people to 1 building in Bangkok.
---end academic---

Now why do I say the word "Muslim".
My point here is that "Should the Pattani people belief in Bhuddist, the probability of killing innocent in fighting would have been much much lower". Here is the explanation: Islam is a religous, so is Bhuddism. "Statistically, the probability of muslim killing innocents for political goal is much higher than Bhuddist"

That's sentences will attract a lot of unneeded attentions from many Moslem here, Thailand should give a broader autonomy to their four Malay dominated provinces in the south and follow the China and Indonesia way to assimilate their people into Thailand dominate culture. Make them to feeling as a Thailand first than as a Moslem, give them a Nationalistic touch into their hearts. Knowing their problems, and don't made them feeling anxious about your central government movement.

 

[suresh1773]

No-one ever dies dude unlike India where thousands die in a single riot sometimes.

U did not get my point.It has been 34 years since 1971,the Bengali muslims have not forgotten their bitterness,hatred,resentment towards Bihari Muslims.On a different thread but on this forum, I have read who the Bihari Muslims are treated by Bengali Muslims.It is said that these Bihari Muslims sided with the Pakistani Army against them in 1971.About the clashes some 10 Bihari Muslims died,lastly rascism does exist in Bangladesh.

More ppl have died in Pakistan then in India due to sectarian,political,ethnic violence.The Hazaras,Shias & the Ahmediyas..About the Hazaras.they are facing a genocide situation.More then 5000 Hazaras families have applied for asylum in different countries for eg Australlia recently,another 3000 r in pipeline. For more information on Hazaras,U can even search the same on gooogle.com