TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[egolfs]

That's a given captain obvious but in comparison the F119-PW-100 in F-22 delivers 160kN in dry thrust... "The engine delivers thrust in the 35,000 lbf (160 kN) class, and is designed for supersonic flight without the use of afterburner (supercruise)."

You do realise that the F-22 is a huge aircraft and weighs twice as much as a F-16.....
......Thrust/weight is the important factor here.

 

[Otonom Piyade]

It's expected that TF-X would be almost similar to F-22 in every way, hence a much better performing engine is expected.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

We've got to fix the engine problem, folks. It's the most important part of R&D and it comes back and kicks us in the azz every time we want to export a vehicle. Be it tanks, aircraft or ships... we have to have our own engines. It's where the magic of power is created: For both vehicles and countries!

 

[egolfs]

It's expected that TF-X would be almost similar to F-22 in every way, hence a much better performing engine is expected.

I believe that the TFX will be along the lines of a Eurofighter Typhoon in terms of size.... and approaching an F-22 in performance and capability.
Of course, this is all guess work at the moment.

 

[Otonom Piyade]

What we really need is to become proficient in industrial espionage

 

[Timur]

What we really need is to become proficient in industrial espionage

turks may have a proven ability in this against their own government.. so we must direct it to another way.. than we may benefit from espionage..

 

[Kamil_baku]

Don't forget that TFX will probably be twin-engined

Stealth aircrafts should have smaller wings, which means they need way stronger engines to be maneuverable..

Ej200 engine is nothing for stealth aircraft..

Turkey is planning something that will be even stronger than todays f22.. thinking that it will be in service by 2030.. bt that time, US will have better aircrafts..

Engine is the key here..

 

[egolfs]

Stealth aircrafts should have smaller wings, which means they need way stronger engines to be maneuverable..

Ej200 engine is nothing for stealth aircraft..

Turkey is planning something that will be even stronger than todays f22.. thinking that it will be in service by 2030.. bt that time, US will have better aircrafts..

Engine is the key here..

Turkey hopes to produce an air-supremacy stealth fighter but it doesn't need to be as large as an F-22. It needs to be "capable" and "indigenously" produced.

The F-22 has still not been matched by any of the established aircraft producers in the world. Let's not forget that even the USA is finding the F-22 to be too expensive (production has been stopped); the maintenance and day to day running of the F-22 is also hugely uneconomical.

We would be very fortunate to be able to produce a "first" aircraft that is as capable as the F-22, even by 2030.

 

[era_shield]

That's a given captain obvious but in comparison the F119-PW-100 in F-22 delivers 160kN in dry thrust... "The engine delivers thrust in the 35,000 lbf (160 kN) class, and is designed for supersonic flight without the use of afterburner (supercruise)."

That's not correct. It's 160kN with afterburner.

TF-X will definitely not be as big as an F-22. 2 x upgraded EJ-200 should not only be powerful enough but also give it supercruise. I won't be high mach supercruise like on the F-22, but still.

 

[Mr.Department]

Stealth aircrafts should have smaller wings, which means they need way stronger engines to be maneuverable..

Ej200 engine is nothing for stealth aircraft..

Turkey is planning something that will be even stronger than todays f22.. thinking that it will be in service by 2030.. bt that time, US will have better aircrafts..

Engine is the key here..

Brother manoeuvrability depends not only on engine power. Remember the German X-31 jet. It was able to make supercritical manoeuvers thanks to perfect interaction with computers and thrust vectoring.
Watch at youtube, it could stop in the air and then suddenly accelerate.
In 21.th century we have better computers and I guess and hope Türkiye is working on it. F-22 is a beast but almost 30 years old. (development in the 90's)

 

[YoungTurk01]

Brother manoeuvrability depends not only on engine power. Remember the German X-31 jet. It was able to make supercritical manoeuvers thanks to perfect interaction with computers and thrust vectoring.
Watch at youtube, it could stop in the air and then suddenly accelerate.
In 21.th century we have better computers and I guess and hope Türkiye is working on it. F-22 is a beast but almost 30 years old. (development in the 90's)

I agree they even can NOT reproduce because no more production line, they have have issue with parts etc, far as I know they even try refurbish old parts for repairing the aircraft.

We are discussing the power plant for our TFX. which I agree ej 200 s not producing enough power but TFX lot smaller twin engine aircraft. That engine will not mount on F 22 raptor, it ll mount on a lot smaller craft. Daaaaaaaaa

 

[TheMightyBender]

If TFX ends up with only one EJ200 engine then it will probably be the most underpowered fighter in the world after JF-17 and HAL tejas

Hell even with two engines it is still seriously underpowered compared to other 5th gen air superiority fighters.

I raised this same issue on this forum a long time ago but nobody has a definite answer. The most meaningful response I got was that TFX engine will not be EJ-200 exactly, it will be a modified version with higher thrust (maybe 25k lb).
.
But my personal opinion is that TFX will not be as large as it is purported (~70k lb). Because for a good air superiority fighter the thrust to weight ratio should be close to 1. This means the TFX will be lighter (45-55k lb) which means it will carry slightly less amount of ammo.

Welcome to the club guys, I have been raising this issue for a long time now.

 

[YoungTurk01]

I agree they even can NOT reproduce because no more production line, they have have issue with parts etc, far as I know they even try refurbish old parts for repairing the aircraft.

We are discussing the power plant for our TFX. which I agree ej 200 s not producing enough power but TFX lot smaller twin engine aircraft. That engine will not mount on F 22 raptor, it ll mount on a lot smaller craft. Daaaaaaaaa[/QUOTE

I agree they even can NOT reproduce because no more production line, they have have issue with parts etc, far as I know they even try refurbish old parts for repairing the aircraft.

We are discussing the power plant for our TFX. which I agree ej 200 s not producing enough power but TFX lot smaller twin engine aircraft. That engine will not mount on F 22 raptor, it ll mount on a lot smaller craft. Daaaaaaaaa

Is any one can post the proximity weight, size of TFX please. also F22. Thanks

 

[TheMightyBender]

Is any one can post the proximity weight, size of TFX please. also F22. Thanks

Here you go, it's a good thing I made this picture back when I was discussing the engine:

if this is true this is how the TFX compares to others:

I want to remind you that I made this picture based on some data by BBC (Length 12.2M, Height 3.5M, Wing span 7.4M) But the data may be incorrect because the airplane becomes even smaller than the F16, so I am not responsible for that.

 

[Cookie Monster]

All members concerned about the engine for TFX, read the article below.

http://quwa.org/2017/10/26/rolls-royce-aiming-secure-tfx-engine-development-contract/

It looks like Rolls Royce is willing to help in engine development partnering with Turkish Kale Group where Kale group would have 51% ownership of the engine. These engines will be built in Turkey