TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Readerdefence]

It's just a mockup and it's pretty incomplete and sloppy. There will be many different details in the cockpit of the prototype, which is currently being assembled.

About the project schedule:
The project officially started in 2011.
PDR and start of prototype production activities 2021
First roll-out 18 March 2023
Maiden flight target 2025
FOC target 2032-2035
Serial production target is after 2030
The scope of the MMU program is until 2065

Hi thanks for your detailed answer for this project
thank you

 

[aziqbal]

so is this considered a 6th generation aircraft ?

because post 2030 it will be the era of 6th generation fighters like Tempest

 

[dBSPL]

so is this considered a 6th generation aircraft ?

because post 2030 it will be the era of 6th generation fighters like Tempest

What are the things that so-called 6th generation jets promise but 5th generation jets can't do or can not add to the skill set in next blocks?

 

[Ali_Baba]

so is this considered a 6th generation aircraft ?

because post 2030 it will be the era of 6th generation fighters like Tempest

Main difference between 5th gen and 6th gen is the systems of systems approach to the software/loyal wingman/drones etc... software cloud/combat cloud... the airframes are very similar with only the improvements that come with time and lessions learnt etc..

 

[Oublious]

 

[dBSPL]

Main difference between 5th gen and 6th gen is the systems of systems approach to the software/loyal wingman/drones etc... software cloud/combat cloud... the airframes are very similar with only the improvements that come with time and lessions learnt etc..

Innovations promised by 5th generation jets,

• Limited Infrared suppression (both engines and radar nose)
• Supercruise without afterburner (started with 4+ jets)
• Minimum radar cross section, suitable geometry and material/coating technology. Stealth concept, integrated payloads, internal weapon bay etc
• Passive mode capabilities (such as radar and radio off) (started with 4+ jets)
• AI supported sensor fusion, and helmet integrated decision support systems (started with 4++ jets)
• Advanced situational awareness over sensor fusion
• Software intensive architecture, where common middleware controls Field-programmable gate arrays
• Manned and unmanned operation capability, advanced Machine-to-machine capabilities
• Advanced tactical data link and combat cloud capability, Ability to perform missions with unmanned jets

The concept you call 6th generation jet is actually a level that can be defined as 5++. In other words, the innovations in the projects that are marketed as the 6th generation can be obtained in the new blocks of the 5th generation jets in the coming decades.

When exactly can we talk about the 6th generation? When a capability leap occurs in combat aviation on a scale where current 5th generation jets cannot be obtain by overhauled.

For example, We can speak of it when there are radical changes in aircraft geometries. Or, When there is a huge leap in data processing, interpretation and AI systems, so conventional embedded systems(for 2030s) or software infrastructures can no longer keep up with this capacity. When material and structural technologies (also in communication systems) are acquired, in which a fully/'real' stealth feature is achieved not only against some specific radar waves, but also in terms of infrared and other detection systems.

In many ways, 5th generation jets are 99% likely to be the last manned combatant jets. Probably they will be able to maintain their existence as up-to-date systems until the 2060s, with integrations and new variants. Then, combatant aviation will leave its place to completely unmanned systems with the ability to make decisions with cognitive awareness. The disappearance of the human factor will lead to a radical change in the geometry of the aircraft, depending on the propulsion technologies.

 

[aziqbal]

What are the things that so-called 6th generation jets promise but 5th generation jets can't do or can not add to the skill set in next blocks?

maybe you can familiarise that at a later date but some features such as

-direct energy weapons
-lasers
-manned and unmanned control of UAVs
-huge leap in engine technology

 

[dBSPL]

Today, a missile launched from an enemy element in close air engagement has off-bore sight, jamming/spoofing-proof infrastructure, counter-countermeasure fetures and most importantly supermaneuverability. Beyond-visual-range missiles have tactical data link, passive mid-course, target update and advanced guidance features.

The progress achieved in weapon systems (and target detection systems) is above the carrier platforms in terms of skill sets. There is no doubt that this is a rabbit and greyhound story, but the side (attack systems) that can maneuver 30-40G without wings and even reach hypersonic speeds has an absolute technical advantage.

The most important problem limiting the maneuverability of carrier platforms is the physical endurance limits of human beings. There have been countless studies on this subject for decades. From the pilots' seating perspective, to cabin pressure regulating systems, to G-Suit tech. However, the factors that make the human factor indispensable are more broader requirements. Here, the main thing to focus on is the ongoing technological studies on the eleminates of needs that make the human factor mandatory.

 

[dBSPL]

maybe you can familiarise that at a later date but some features such as

-direct energy weapons
-lasers
-manned and unmanned control of UAVs
-huge leap in engine technology

All of these will be featured on 5th generation jets. Including the project, which we are writing in its pages right now.

 

[Oublious]

@dBSPL @merzifonlu

Did you two listened to the last interview of Kotil, in 2028 ther will be 14 prototype flying and 2 of them will fly with Turkish engine. Really ambitious guy, what do you think?

I think they are building an 4 gen fighter engine and with RR they are going to work in 5 gen engine? They al ready started the design of the engine 4 years ago. We need to start the project with RR, so lets wait and see what will come out of it.

 

[merzifonlu]

There is speculation that RR Company will propose a military engine derived from the RR Pearl Engine used in civil aviation. It will be manufactured by adding an afterburner unit to this engine, which consumes less fuel with a high bypass ratio.

If this is the case, this engine will be suitable for 5th generation aircraft, not 4th. Since a military engine with minor modifications will be produced from an existing civilian engine, this project can easily reach 2028.

If a TEI design and manufacturing engine is planned that will fly in prototype in 2028, its project must have been started at least 6-7 years ago. I don't see this as very likely.

 

[dBSPL]

TEI has now officially announced that it is ready for a +30,000lbf (wet) turbofan engine program. This suggests that TEI's only aircraft turbofan engine development work currently is not the TF-6000, which was declassified about two years later.

All shares of TRMotor are in TAI, the controlling shareholder of TEI. TAI may not be for the first block, but there is no reason why it shouldn't come up with its own unique solution in the 2030s, it just needs the SSB to take a step to support it.

My guess is that the MMU project is progressing towards more than two alternative engines. The first Blok-0 will use a 4th generation engine. However, I am guessing, after the first 12 aircraft, will be a licensed/joint development engine in the partnership of RR-Kale(?), and then a indigenous engine in the same diameter and dry weight class. Could there even be a Chinese engine among these options?

The reason I think so is because the number of prototype production is high. I wonder if some of these prototypes are related to the requirements of different user countries for export purposes? If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Kotil implied that they already exported, press conferance at Farnborough.

 

[dBSPL]

From where to where

Video from TRT Archive about a 1978 engine d-maintenance process

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554394070163886082

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I think you have an agent inside @Quwa

 

[Indos]

I think you have an agent inside @Quwa

View attachment 867422View attachment 867423

He could be a member in here
@JamD Is that you ?