TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

TEI is a good subcontractor for engine parts. There is no doubt here. However, the problem here is GE F110 (and F404 for that matter) is intellectual property of United States of America and THEY have a final say over those engines, NOT TEI. There is no point of being upset with me for saying the truth.

And I don't think you are naive enough to actually believe that a "subcontractor" would actually threaten the US of not fulfilling existing contracts nor receiving new ones from major companies (the EXACT reason why F-35 supply chain keeps Turkish companies around unilt the existing contracts expire) just because the US refuses to hand over invaluable US gasturbine engines and it works out in favor of Turkey at the end. No amount of lobbists will do any good. It is about national security and even the America's 'greatest ally' Israel couldn't get away with it despite of all business ties & money & influence that they have with USA.

The US refused to do with LHTEC engine
and It is highly likely to happen again with GE F110 & F404.

Unless, of course, Turkey has some dirt on Biden.

I don't think the S400 really think that if national security is threatened, but can not accept the problem of supply and more expensive because the product can't come from Turkey. F35 massive project and wasted a lot of money. When it comes to security, compromises mean nothing compared to the money spent on the F35. So remove those problems instead of Turkey could see the same response even England. F110 or F404 is not really that important, old and commercially it will no longer make sense. Put aside production, I don't even think GE would care if we copy it.

 

[SgtGungHo]

I don't think the S400 really think that if national security is threatened, but can not accept the problem of supply and more expensive because the product can't come from Turkey. F35 massive project and wasted a lot of money. When it comes to security, compromises mean nothing compared to the money spent on the F35. So remove those problems instead of Turkey could see the same response even England. F110 or F404 is not really that important, old and commercially it will no longer make sense. Put aside production, I don't even think GE would care if we copy it.

No, military-grade gasturbine engines ARE a matter of national security. F110 & F404-equppied fighter jets & trainers are very much active. In fact, new Boeing T-7A Red Hawk is going to use F404 and is still in development.

Again, it is not about what YOU believe how old & irrelevent those engines are. It is up to the US government to decide and they believe those engines are invaluable. For that reason, the US is VERY protective of their gasturbine engines.

I am pretty sure the Turkish government is fully aware of it. Turkey signed up the contract that the US laid down those specific terms and conditions.

I would be appreciated if you could share those terms of conditions for GE F110 that Turkey signed up if you have any information rather than more wishful thinking & speculation. It is not constructive & not helpful.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

No, military-grade gasturbine engines ARE a matter of national security. F110 & F404-equppied fighter jets & trainers are very much active. In fact, new Boeing T-7A Red Hawk is going to use F404 and is still in development.

Again, it is not about what YOU believe how old & irrelevent those engines are. It is up to the US government to decide and they believe those engines are invaluable. For that reason, the US is VERY protective of their gasturbine engines.

I am pretty sure the Turkish government is fully aware of it. Turkey signed up the contract that the US laid down those specific terms and conditions.

I would be appreciated if you could share those terms of conditions for GE F110 that Turkey signed up if you have any information rather than more wishful thinking & speculation. It is not constructive & not helpful.

He is meant the production of engines for the TFX, not the F16s. When I was talking about copying, I mean GE - TEI relations, not USA. Nobody gives you gas turbine technology anyway, if you have the capacity to do this, you can. Although there is a part about why the engines are not copied in the video in which the agreements I have just described are mentioned, but I don't think you can understand much because it is Turkish.

 

[SgtGungHo]

He is meant the production of engines for the TFX, not the F16s. When I was talking about copying, I mean GE - TEI relations, not USA. Nobody gives you gas turbine technology anyway, if you have the capacity to do this, you can. Although there is a part about why the engines are not copied in the video in which the agreements I have just described are mentioned, but I don't think you can understand much because it is Turkish.

(Sigh) I have told you repeatedly- it is the US government who decides, not GE nor TEI. GE gasturbine engines are a national asset of United States of America and even GE Aviation can't just do it without any authorization from the US government. (In fact, GE Aviation has been awefully quiet about TF-X of using GE F110 on their website even though they have bragged about other national fighter jet projects of using their engines).

The US government usually restricts a licensed military-grade gasturbin engine for a specific purpose or fighter jet. It is highly likely that the US only approves F110 to be used for F-16 and did not allow the engine to be used for a third party nor a new project.

TF-X is a new project and it usually means it needs a new approval from the US government (at least that's my understanding of this subject).

Now, it is possible (but, highly unlikely) that Turkey had included a clause that allowed them to use a GE F110 engine for jets other than F-16. This is why I want some information about the the GE F110 contract that Turkey signed with United States of America.

No more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

Let's get to the bottom of it.

Since Turkish officials are so confident, I think they could & should shed some light on this subject. How would they plan to procure American turbofan engines for new fighter jet projects when the US government even refuses to approve sales of 1600 shp turboshaft engine to Turkey?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

(Sigh) I have told you repeatedly- it is the US government who decides, not GE nor TEI. GE gasturbine engines are a national asset of United States of America and even GE Aviation can't just do it without any authorization from the US government. (In fact, GE Aviation has been awefully quiet about TF-X of using GE F110 on their website even though they have bragged about other national fighter jet projects of using their engines).

The US government usually restricts a licensed military-grade gasturbin engine for a specific purpose or fighter jet. It is highly likely that the US only approves F110 to be used for F-16 and did not allow the engine to be used for a third party nor a new project.

TF-X is a new project and it usually means it needs a new approval from the US government (at least that's my understanding of this subject).

Now, it is possible (but, highly unlikely) that Turkey had included a clause that allowed them to use a GE F110 engine for jets other than F-16. This is why I want some information about the the GE F110 contract that Turkey signed with United States of America.

No more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

Let's get to the bottom of it.

Since Turkish officials are so confident, I think they could & should shed some light on this subject. How would they plan to procure American turbofan engines for new fighter jet projects when the US government even refuses to approve sales of 1600 shp turboshaft engine to Turkey?

The second place I have given the source of the production of engines as the speeches of the people who will produce it, I did not provide the information of any politician or give a direct guarantee, you keep repeating the same thing like a parrot, but in TEI-GE relations, I mean a new engine design, not a motor production permit, it is for me constantly. You don't need to give the example of a congress for turbine engine manufacturing like a parrot, because I'm not talking about that anyway. 3- There will be no congress permission while granting manufacturing technology transfers between companies, I do not know if you have even passed the engineering or international trade in your life, but when you share the production technique of any part, you do not spend it at a congress, this is related to your relationship with the company you are facing. This includes advanced design and tolerance separation techniques.

You can also learn to read instead of repeating the same things over and over (sigh).

4- except that the F35 was never applied directly to Turkey and then to have an embargo, here are counting on that, is it enough? You give them something to silence the Armenians and Greeks at the congress and it ends there, just like the Germans don't give the engines but everything from submarines to manufacturing machines. That if this happens, America etc. If tomorrow landed in Turkey. If America really imposes an embargo, you can't even produce anything of anything, you're doing nothing but talking as a platform blindly.

 

[Titanium100]

The second place I have given the source of the production of engines as the speeches of the people who will produce it, I did not provide the information of any politician or give a direct guarantee, you keep repeating the same thing like a parrot, but in TEI-GE relations, I mean a new engine design, not a motor production permit, it is for me constantly. You don't need to give the example of a congress for turbine engine manufacturing like a parrot, because I'm not talking about that anyway. 3- There will be no congress permission while granting manufacturing technology transfers between companies, I do not know if you have even passed the engineering or international trade in your life, but when you share the production technique of any part, you do not spend it at a congress, this is related to your relationship with the company you are facing. This includes advanced design and tolerance separation techniques.

You can also learn to read instead of repeating the same things over and over (sigh).

4- except that the F35 was never applied directly to Turkey and then to have an embargo, here are counting on that, is it enough? You give them something to silence the Armenians and Greeks at the congress and it ends there, just like the Germans don't give the engines but everything from submarines to manufacturing machines. That if this happens, America etc. If tomorrow landed in Turkey. If America really imposes an embargo, you can't even produce anything of anything, you're doing nothing but talking as a platform blindly.

I think it's an alt-account of a troll or something. Reminds me eerily of another poster. He doesn't even understand that having nailed down the building prototype system itself makes everything he says irrelevant.

Hürjet P1 will probably conduct it's ground tests during 2022, it is planned to conduct it's first flight in March 2023 (MMU P1 will also get out of the hangar first time in that day, with it's own engines). Hürjet's P2 and P3 would be produced in 2022.

I think the F-35 deal could explain why this project was forwarded with P2 and P3 ready in 2022 and by the way will it have extra features such as laser?

 

[SgtGungHo]

The second place I have given the source of the production of engines as the speeches of the people who will produce it, I did not provide the information of any politician or give a direct guarantee, you keep repeating the same thing like a parrot, but in TEI-GE relations, I mean a new engine design, not a motor production permit, it is for me constantly. You don't need to give the example of a congress for turbine engine manufacturing like a parrot, because I'm not talking about that anyway. 3- There will be no congress permission while granting manufacturing technology transfers between companies, I do not know if you have even passed the engineering or international trade in your life, but when you share the production technique of any part, you do not spend it at a congress, this is related to your relationship with the company you are facing. This includes advanced design and tolerance separation techniques.

You can also learn to read instead of repeating the same things over and over (sigh).

4- except that the F35 was never applied directly to Turkey and then to have an embargo, here are counting on that, is it enough? You give them something to silence the Armenians and Greeks at the congress and it ends there, just like the Germans don't give the engines but everything from submarines to manufacturing machines. That if this happens, America etc. If tomorrow landed in Turkey. If America really imposes an embargo, you can't even produce anything of anything, you're doing nothing but talking as a platform blindly.

Because there is nothing to learn from what you have said. Just more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

The bottom line is that Turkey has decided to use GE F110 for TF-X prototypes and it is up to the US government to allow it to happen. You are making a lot of wishful thinking & speculation to run away from this basic reality.

Again, there is no point of being upset with ME for telling the truth.

It is the fact that the US government dictates terms and conditions of their intellectual properties and politicians, not just companies, are involved in sensitive matters such as gasturbine engines of which America considers as a critical national asset.

GE Aviation can transfer technologies only approved by the US government. Turkey could use American engines & relevent technologies under terms and conditions that they agreed with the US government. Turkey can't infringe intectuall properties of America (such as "copying") and GE Aviation is also fully aware that the company can't help Turkey of infringing copy rights of American intellectual properties. (Turkey may be a big customer of GE Aviation, but America is a way bigger customer and GE Aviation is reliable for legal consequences in United States of America as a US company)

(Sigh)

Again I would be appreciated if you (or anyone) could provide any relevant information regarding to the GE F110 contract between two countries, but I don't think you have anything left.

I hope you have a nice day.

I think Turkish officials could be more transparent with this engine procurement process rather than keep everyone guessing what & how would they do it and Turkish people themselves (especially, enthusiasts) start asking some tough questions for honest answers since what they are selling isn't aligned with reality.

 

[Deino]

...
No more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

Let's get to the bottom of it.
...

I gave up, you cannot argue with them since any reasonable question - not even a critical one - just a question or common international standard procedures which are openly public in any other project but this one is immediately taken as an insult, an offence and rejected in the harshest way.
You won't get an answer since otherwise they must admit, what are the true reasons why regardless of announcements and claims in the same way why their Altai tank still has no powerpack, the T.129 not an export ready engine and so on.

therefore just sit down and wait until 2022 and especially the promised March 2023 date.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I think it's an alt-account of a troll or something. Reminds me eerily of another poster. He doesn't even understand that having nailed down the building prototype system itself makes everything he says irrelevant.

I don't think he's a troll at all, but sometimes he doesn't really want to understand. If things were official, there would be an F35 fleet in Malatya. "If that happens, how do you know this" , wtf, what is this, I send the TEI CEO's speech to the man, he asks for an official document, he probably thinks that all of the engines of our current F16 fleet have been used since they were produced.

Because there is nothing to learn from what you have said. Just more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

The bottom line is that Turkey has decided to use GE F110 for TF-X prototypes and it is up to the US government to allow it to happen. You are making a lot of wishful thinking & speculation to run away from this basic reality.

Again, there is no point of being upset with ME for telling the truth.

It is the fact that the US government dictates terms and conditions of their intellectual properties and politicians, not just companies, are involved in sensitive matters such as gasturbine engines of which America considers as a critical national asset.

GE Aviation can transfer technologies only approved by the US government. Turkey could use American engines & relevent technologies under terms and conditions that they agreed with the US government. Turkey can't infringe intectuall properties of America (such as "copying") and GE Aviation is also fully aware that the company can't help Turkey of infringing copy rights of American intellectual properties. (Turkey may be a big customer of GE Aviation, but America is a way bigger customer and GE Aviation is reliable for legal consequences in United States of America as a US company)

(Sigh)

Again I would be appreciated if you (or anyone) could provide any relevant information regarding to the GE F110 contract between two countries, but I don't think you have anything left.

I hope you have a nice day.

I wish Turkish officials could be more transparent with this engine procurement process rather than keep everyone guessing what & how would they do it and Turkish people themselves (especially, enthusiasts) start asking some tough questions for honest answers.

OW okey MR Official. Can you show me the permission documents GE has officially received for a technology submitted to TEI for congress approval? I was really curious?

Yep U Gouatcha, our only goal is propaganda, at the same time the British Ambassador is working with us. Our aim is to deceive the Asian who has the flags of 2 different nations on him and try to show our glory.

 

[Titanium100]

Because there is nothing to learn from what you have said. Just more wishful thinking & speculation based on words of people whose jobs & careers are depended on selling this 'national fighter jet project' to the people.

The bottom line is that Turkey has decided to use GE F110 for TF-X prototypes and it is up to the US government to allow it to happen. You are making a lot of wishful thinking & speculation to run away from this basic reality.

Again, there is no point of being upset with ME for telling the truth.

It is the fact that the US government dictates terms and conditions of their intellectual properties and politicians, not just companies, are involved in sensitive matters such as gasturbine engines of which America considers as a critical national asset.

GE Aviation can transfer technologies only approved by the US government. Turkey could use American engines & relevent technologies under terms and conditions that they agreed with the US government. Turkey can't infringe intectuall properties of America (such as "copying") and GE Aviation is also fully aware that the company can't help Turkey of infringing copy rights of American intellectual properties. (Turkey may be a big customer of GE Aviation, but America is a way bigger customer and GE Aviation is reliable for legal consequences in United States of America as a US company)

(Sigh)

Again I would be appreciated if you (or anyone) could provide any relevant information regarding to the GE F110 contract between two countries, but I don't think you have anything left.

I hope you have a nice day.

I wish Turkish officials could be more transparent with this engine procurement process rather than keep everyone guessing what & how would they do it and Turkish people themselves (especially, enthusiasts) start asking some tough questions for honest answers.

Lmao. Who are you even to demand documents or transparency of highly classified matters. Get outta here with that shxt.

I don't think he's a troll at all, but sometimes he doesn't really want to understand. If things were official, there would be an F35 fleet in Malatya. "If that happens, how do you know this" , wtf, what is this, I send the TEI CEO's speech to the man, he asks for an official document, he probably thinks that all of the engines of our current F16 fleet have been used since they were produced.

As I have said you wasted your valuable time on a troll. His insincere and repeating the same thing even having the audacity to ask for documents that are highly classified from the public domain and what not. His out of his mind

 

[Mustafa27]

I dont understand why u guys bother replying to them, put sgt into your ingore list and ignore whatever deino posts because he is an admin and we can't put him an ignore List, just go back and read all their replies to this thread they never provide anything constructive, they come once in a while write some shit, people smack their logic and then they run away and repeat this

 

[Dai Toruko]

 

[Mustafa27]

I gave up, you cannot argue with them since any reasonable question - not even a critical one - just a question or common international standard procedures which are openly public in any other project but this one is immediately taken as an insult, an offence and rejected in the harshest way.
You won't get an answer since otherwise they must admit, what are the true reasons why regardless of announcements and claims in the same way why their Altai tank still has no powerpack, the T.129 not an export ready engine and so on.

therefore just sit down and wait until 2022 and especially the promised March 2023 date.

Why do u still not understand that its a fucking work in progress, how much of a hater you are, you see the engine working and is undergoing tests, these tests take a long time as its also gonna have to be used for civil purposes meaning that people are going to be flown on that engine meaning that the tests are going to take at least 1-3 years for certificate. Altay tank engine is going to be ignited this year.

Please don't be blaming other people for your own lack of knowledge.

 

[Successwill]

I dont understand why u guys bother replying to them, put sgt into your ingore list and ignore whatever deino posts because he is an admin and we can't put him an ignore List, just go back and read all their replies to this thread they never provide anything constructive, they come once in a while write some shit, people smack their logic and then they run away and repeat this

I dont get the reason why we cannot put that mod in ignore list. i am not not posting in areas where he moderates. And i cant tolerate his stupidities in Turkish section.

 

[retaxis]

You forgot how Turks ruled whole chine for a century i guess) Turks come from Altay mountains. Thats why Turkish tank is called Altay...
its not the place to talk, otherwise you would call me history teacher after a day...

Are you stealing mongolian history again?