TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[dr.knowhow]

You are a good researcher, but sometimes you think you really know too much. TEI is the 5th largest engine subcontractor in the world, and the remaining 4 directly west block (GE-PW - RR - Safran and its affiliates) earns an annual revenue of 5 billion dollars only from parts, including LEAP engines. TEI has developed high-life turboshaft in 3 years by using the technologies that you are promoting as "strict rules" today, so not everything happens with classical ideas. You can easily be rejected in cheap and non-American disputes, but if you are a supplier that can affect global flight ticket prices by up to 10%, your partner's lobbies come into play. TEI's 4-year profit coincides with the development budget of your awesome uber super KFX, so I suggest you give more complicated examples from Israel, at least while exemplifying.

"High life" must be that those parts are manufactured in Beverly Hills

Well, jokes aside, I'm not so sure if you mean subcontractor in terms on subcontractor of the aircraft manufacturers (i.e. supplier of the engines)
or subcontractor of the engine manufacturers (i.e. supplier of the parts going into the engines) but either way I should ask where your claim of "5th largest" comes fromg

If you're talking about engine manufacturers as a whole there are companies like Williams, Textron (Lycoming), Honeywell and few other Chinese and Russian engine manufactrures that are obviously larger than TEI.

On the other had, even if you are talking about parts suppliers, there are companies like IHI, Kawasaki heavy, MTU aero and Zodiac (now part of Safran) which are bigger and more important in terms of world aero gas turbine engine supply chain. Other companies like MHI exist too but they seem to focus on bigger gas turbines for power plants more than aircraft engines.

Also, I'm not so sure with your intention of brining up KF-X all of the sudden into an unrelated discussion when those few members you are arguing with aren't even Koreans.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

"High life" must be that those parts are manufactured in Beverly Hills

Well, jokes aside, I'm not so sure if you mean subcontractor in terms on subcontractor of the aircraft manufacturers (i.e. supplier of the engines)
or subcontractor of the engine manufacturers (i.e. supplier of the parts going into the engines) but either way I should ask where your claim of "5th largest" comes fromg

If you're talking about engine manufacturers as a whole there are companies like Williams, Honeywell and few other Chinese and Russian engine manufactrures that are obviously larger than TEI.

On the other had, even if you are talking about parts suppliers, there are companies like IHI, Kawasaki heavy, MTU aero and Zodiac (now part of Safran) which are bigger and more important in terms of world aero gas turbine engine supply chain. Other companies like MHI exist too but they seem to focus on bigger gas turbines for power plants more than aircraft engines.

Also, I'm not so sure with your intention of brining up KF-X all of the sudden into an unrelated discussion when those few members you are arguing with aren't even Koreans.

There is no demand for nuclear power plants, drilling or ships as much as airplanes. You are also constantly asking questions, but you could first answer the question I asked above.

 

[dr.knowhow]

There is no demand for nuclear power plants, drilling or ships as much as airplanes. You are also constantly asking questions, but you could first answer the question I asked above.

Uh, well I'm talking about exaclty that, aircraft gas turbine engines. There are bigger and more significant companies regarding gas turbine aircraft engine manufacturing out there around the globe and your claims of TEI being the world's 5th largest sound vague without any source. Well, "5th largest" already sounds vague enough. 5th largest could mean a lot of things, maybe it's in regards to revenue or market cap, market share, number of items, you name it.

Anyways, I'm not the one who you were having dispute with in those previous pages and also if anything, I have only seen you claiming sth not asking anything so not really sure which question you want me to answer. I could have missed out, though honestly I am not interested to go through all your disputes thoroughly because all I am seeing is the usual TF-X engine yada yada.

Last but not least, I am questioning the credibility of the information you are giving, mostly out of curiosity. If you have credible sources to back your claims up, no need to get offended about anything.

 

[Deino]

Why do u still not understand that its a fucking work in progress, how much of a hater you are, you see the engine working and is undergoing tests, these tests take a long time as its also gonna have to be used for civil purposes meaning that people are going to be flown on that engine meaning that the tests are going to take at least 1-3 years for certificate. Altay tank engine is going to be ignited this year.

Please don't be blaming other people for your own lack of knowledge.

Exactly; I know it will take time, much time and the way to a mature engine will be covered with faliures. Other countries can sing a song from this. As such that's exactly the reason why any such claims, the TFX will use an indigenous engine soon is plain ridiculous.

 

[Titanium100]

Exactly; I know it will take time, much time and the way to a mature engine will be covered with faliures. Other countries can sing a song from this. As such that's exactly the reason why any such claims, the TFX will use an indigenous engine soon is plain ridiculous.

What makes you sure that it will take so much time and fail to meet it's date in 2022-2023. For me you just sound like a hater who is somehow pressed by this project. Jealousy is not a healthy thing.

Which elevates this project even more it got under the skin of certain people for no obvious reasons

 

[Deino]

What makes you sure that it will take so much time and fail to meet it's date in 2022-2023. For me you just sound like a hater who is somehow pressed by this project. Jealousy is not a healthy thing.

Which elevates this project even more it got under the skin of certain people for no obvious reasons

I don't know why a question and concern is a hint for being jealous!??

But to your question: Turkey cannot develop an indigenous engine ready for this aircraft with let's say 4-5 years, no-one can doe this. As such it is a fact and not a hater's statement.

Or in return if you think this can be done then you must explain and a question in thsi regard is at least IMO more than justified.

First of all I'm an enthusiast and would rate myself an export on PLAAF matters - and as such I'm interested in any new development, regardless of its origin. As I explained so often I wish them luck, all the best and I will celebrate with them if it will fly but what I don't like is bragging, turning down any question but instead insult others as biased, anti-Turkey or whatever. This is a forum, we are here to discuss and exchange opinions ...

 

[Beast]

What makes you sure that it will take so much time and fail to meet it's date in 2022-2023. For me you just sound like a hater who is somehow pressed by this project. Jealousy is not a healthy thing.

Which elevates this project even more it got under the skin of certain people for no obvious reasons

Becos no countries has ever do a modern turbofan right from scratch for the first time. Even US F100 engines has plenty of problem initially in the 80s when first introduced which result in high rate of crash.

The Russian/Soviet sacrifice engine lifespan for usage. A big reason why their engine works but result in high maintenance due to very short lifespan of their engine with shorter development time.

Turkey may choose the route of Russian to achieve the need of a usable modern turbofan. Restricting the engine lifespan to 1000hrs to 1500hrs will cut down a lot of spec and metallurgy difficultiies. But Turkey will need to sustain the need to bleed in funds until a longer lifespan model comes in..

 

[Titanium100]

I don't know why a question and concern is a hint for being jealous!??

But to your question: Turkey cannot develop an indigenous engine ready for this aircraft with let's say 4-5 years, no-one can doe this. As such it is a fact and not a hater's statement.

Or in return if you think this can be done then you must explain and a question in thsi regard is at least IMO more than justified.

First of all I'm an enthusiast and would rate myself an export on PLAAF matters - and as such I'm interested in any new development, regardless of its origin. As I explained so often I wish them luck, all the best and I will celebrate with them if it will fly but what I don't like is bragging, turning down any question but instead insult others as biased, anti-Turkey or whatever. This is a forum, we are here to discuss and exchange opinions ...

You should stick to your guns and prediction but no need to spam the project thread by repeating the same things over and over again that has been refuted by many above or should I say people have agreed to disagree with you previously. We heard you once and disagreed with you no need to further repeat it.

I am not shutting your down but it is kinda of non-topic and discussed already. We can't talk the same thing everyday which gives you out as someone who is to much invested for negative purposes.

We are not discouraged by such things to be fairly honest but if people fail to notice that themselves we should remind them kindly.

Becos no countries has ever do a modern turbofan right from scratch for the first time. Even US F100 engines has plenty of problem initially in the 80s when first introduced which result in high rate of crash.

They have been working on engines for decades and this is not a new field or unknown territory

 

[Deino]

You should stick to your guns and prediction but no need to spam the project thread by repeating the same things over and over again that has been refuted by many above or should I say people have agreed to disagree with you previously. We heard you once and disagreed with you no need to further repeat it.

I am not shutting your down but it is kinda of non-topic and discussed already

Again, NONE of these questions has been answered, they have not been refuted, but simply turned down, Just look on how you and others argue with @Beast, @dr.knowhow and @SgtGungHo ? Yes, we all ask the same again and again since we are interestted in FACTS, not FICTION or propaganda and since no answer ways given so far. All we got was anger and hate.

But again, I'll leave it here until next time I'm back in mood to ask again and until then I wail, read other sources and hope you will be successful, but all I know tells me the more time passes by without an answer given, the smaller the chances are you see the TFX in 2022.

I really can't get it why you guys rate a question alone an insult. Grow up and get mature...
Best and take care.

 

[Titanium100]

Again, NONE of these questions has been answered, they have not been refuted, but simply turned down, Just look on how you and others argue with @Beast, @dr.knowhow and @SgtGungHo ? Yes, we all ask the same again and again since we are interestted in FACTS, not FICTION or propaganda and since no answer ways given so far. All we got was anger and hate.

But again, I'll leave it here until next time I'm back in mood to ask again and until then I wail, read other sources and hope you will be successful, but all I know tells me the more time passes by without an answer given, the smaller the chances are you see the TFX in 2022.

I really can't get it why you guys rate a question alone an insult. Grow up and get mature...
Best and take care.

Look. What you are doing is basically like giving review on a movie that have not aired? They said We have the main engine ready 2022 and flight takes place 2023. We shouldn't call them into question or doubt their authority that is an insult by itself.

If the project were however delayed I could have seen naysayers being relevant but in this stage they are irrelevant.

Which means we gotta wait until it's dateline approaches. Everything else said before then doesn't matter.

There was even another guy who had the audacity to ask for highly classified stuff regarding TAI-TFX on a forum saying ''The Turkish officials are not being transparent and share documents while asking one poster for such documents'' I mean like who is that guy even to ask for such highly classified matters and something that is never leaked to the public domain this are the type of trolls we are dealing with

 

[Beast]

Turkey has been working on engines for decades and this is not a new field or unknown territory

Service an engine is not same mass produced an engine from scratch. The american are smart to control all crucial parts and availability only from them. I doubt Turkey has learn much as we can see they has great difficult in producing propulsion system from tanks, helo , ships and aircraft for their future project.

Worst of all propulsion project are highly capital intensive one which requires massive funding in metalurgy and testing facilities. Where is Turkey going to do high attitude static testing for their turbofan?

Turkey’s ‘chronic engine problem’ is harming defense projects, warn officials

Turkey’s inability to produce an indigenous engine is harming some of the country’s otherwise successful domestic defense programs, according to industry and government officials.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Titanium100]

Service an engine is not same mass produced an engine from scratch. The american are smart to control all crucial parts and availability only from them. I doubt Turkey has learn much as we can see they has great difficult in producing propulsion system from tanks, helo , ships and aircraft for their future project.

Worst of all propulsion project are highly capital intensive one which requires massive funding in metalurgy and testing facilities. Where is Turkey going to do high attitude static testing for their turbofan?

Turkey’s ‘chronic engine problem’ is harming defense projects, warn officials

Turkey’s inability to produce an indigenous engine is harming some of the country’s otherwise successful domestic defense programs, according to industry and government officials.

www.defensenews.com

I guess China has Engine jet problems as well. Were her jets delayed?

Engine Trouble: Why China's Home-Made Engines Aren't Good Enough for Its Air Force

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

80 YEARS FROM INVENTION, CHINA IS STRUGGLING WITH JET ENGINES

80 Years From Invention, China Is Struggling With Jet Engines

The jet engine has a long and storied history. Its development occurred spontaneously amongst several unrelated groups in the early 20th Century. Frank Whittle submitted a UK patent on a design in …

hackaday.com

 

[Beast]

I guess China has Engine jet problems as well. Were her jets delayed?

Engine Trouble: Why China's Home-Made Engines Aren't Good Enough for Its Air Force

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

80 YEARS FROM INVENTION, CHINA IS STRUGGLING WITH JET ENGINES

80 Years From Invention, China Is Struggling With Jet Engines

The jet engine has a long and storied history. Its development occurred spontaneously amongst several unrelated groups in the early 20th Century. Frank Whittle submitted a UK patent on a design in …

hackaday.com

Precisely the point. If a 15 trillion USD economy power country still has problem produced a modern turbofan. What makes turkey special to leap frog others especially you don't even have the financial muscle like China?

And money to throw at problem did has show some success like our gas turbine for warship, turboshaft for Z-20 helo and 1500ho engine for VT-4 tank.

Do turkey has the money to splurge at problem?

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

Precisely the point. If a 15 trillion USD economy power country still has problem produced a modern turbofan. What makes turkey special to leap frog others especially you don't even have the financial muscle like China?

Turkey has better defense industry then China that is why

 

[Titanium100]

Turkey has better defense industry then China that is why

This 100%