TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Successwill]

By reading the above article, the image of TFX we have in mind may completely change.. i really thought that we have already chosen the double engine'd one and its would-be role. Now we have to take into account a one engine fighter and lets assume it will be a multi role shitty...

 

[Babur Han]

I didn't compare TAI to Lockheed Martin or Boeing. What I tried to show you was the time frame in which an Idea evolved into a first flight, using one of the most complex fighter jets as an example. First flight in 8 years is not so absurd to invoke a miracle, especially so since TAI will be receiving technical assistance from BAE and perhaps frame of Hawker Trainer Jet for T/X.

T/X will be based on the frame of an Hawker Jet Trainer, will it be also the Base for TF-X ? Or will TF-X be a twin Engined Variant ?

 

[-------]

T/X will be based on the frame of an Hawker Jet Trainer, will it be also the Base for TF-X ? Or will TF-X be a twin Engined Variant ?

TX will be based off an existing airframe. FX will have a unique airframe, FX has to comply to fifth generation traits Stealthy, Supercruise and internal weapons bay. Hawk Jet Trainer would not be suitable

 

[-SINAN-]

Supercruise

Supercruise.....you sure ?

 

[Babur Han]

Supercruise.....you sure ?

TF-X should be unlike F-35 have better Capabillities for Dogfight and Air Superirity, from this Point of View Supercruise will be Neccesary ! Otherwise we will have an indigenous Stealthy Attack Aircraft like F-35.

 

[-SINAN-]

TF-X should be unlike F-35 have better Capabillities for Dogfight and Air Superirity, from this Point of View Supercruise will be Neccesary ! Otherwise we will have an indigenous Stealthy Attack Aircraft like F-35.

Yeah, but it's easier said than done. What you are describing is essentially F-22 and it uses F-119 engine to achieve super-cruise capabilities.....can TF-X achieve supercruise with EJ-230 ? I doubt it.

 

[Babur Han]

Yeah, but it's easier said than done. What you are describing is essentially F-22 and it uses F-119 engine to achieve super-cruise capabilities.....can TF-X achieve supercruise with EJ-230 ? I doubt it.

As far I know EJ-230 will have more Thrust than than EJ-200, the Weight Issue by TF-X is also an important Factor.

 

[-SINAN-]

As far I know EJ-230 will have more Thrust than than EJ-200, the Weight Issue by TF-X is also an important Factor.

Single F-119 engine: 160 kN thrust
Single EJ-200 engine: 60kN thrust....let's say EJ-230 will have (%30 more thrust) = 80 kn thrust. Still very underpowered when compared to F-119. Typhoon can achieve supercruise with EJ-200 but Typhoon is not a 5th gen jet. When you say internal weapons bay + stealth, airframe of the aircraft tends to go larger which makes the aircraft heavier....that's why i'm surprised when CM said "super-cruise".....Okay, i also want super cruise but with which engine ???

 

[Babur Han]

It were the best when Turkey had Know How in building Engines for Fighter Jets, otherwise we rely on foreign one which not fit indigenous Requirements. Even without Supercruise there is a need for an indigenous Fighter Jet, to establish an strong industrial Aviation Industry base and to overcome the IFF Issue.

 

[era_shield]

Single F-119 engine: 160 kN thrust
Single EJ-200 engine: 60kN thrust....let's say EJ-230 will have (%30 more thrust) = 80 kn thrust. Still very underpowered when compared to F-119. Typhoon can achieve supercruise with EJ-200 but Typhoon is not a 5th gen jet. When you say internal weapons bay + stealth, airframe of the aircraft tends to go larger which makes the aircraft heavier....that's why i'm surprised when CM said "super-cruise".....Okay, i also want super cruise but with which engine ???

That's a question that can only be answered through detailed engineering analysis. Just comparing engine thrust like that is pointless. Whether an aircraft can supercruise or not involves many complex design factors.

 

[-SINAN-]

That's a question that can only be answered through detailed engineering analysis. Just comparing engine thrust like that is pointless. Whether an aircraft can supercruise or not involves many complex design factors.

Let's put it this way bro....let's remove F-119s engines from F-22 and install EJ-200.

2 x F-119 = 360 kN thrust versus 2 x EJ-200 = 120 kN thrust.

F-35 with it's single F-135 engine (125 kN) is unable to achieve super-cruise.

It's not rocket science to figure out that with 2 x EJ-200 engines F-22 can't achieve super-cruise. Similar to our TF-X

 

[Babur Han]

It's also a Question if TF-X is in Terms of Weapons Payload and Weight Comparable with an F-22 ? Compare the TAI Comncept Drawings with the F-22 Picture underneeth, you see an less smaller Air Intake by all three propossed Designs. The Airframe looks also not Designed for Engines like F-119.


I rather think in Terms of Weight and Weapon Payload TF-X will be comparable to HAL AMCA, than to F-22.

 

[era_shield]

Let's put it this way bro....let's remove F-119s engines from F-22 and install EJ-200.

2 x F-119 = 360 kN thrust versus 2 x EJ-200 = 120 kN thrust.

F-35 with it's single F-135 engine (125 kN) is unable to achieve super-cruise.

It's not rocket science to figure out that with 2 x EJ-200 engines F-22 can't achieve super-cruise. Similar to our TF-X

It's not rocket science - it's aerospace engineering. First of all, the EJ230, not 200, will be used the TF-X, so that's the engine you should be considering. Secondly, where are the calculations you did where you figured out what the F-22's sustained airspeed at military thrust would be if it had 2 x EJ230 engines (let's say 140kN) with a clean A2A weapons load and full fuel load?

You can't just compare engine thrusts and call it a day. You already pointed out the example of the Typhoon which is able to supercruise while the F-35 can't, even though the Typhoon is bigger than the F-35. It even uses the weaker EJ200 engine instead of the EJ230 which the TF-X will use.

I'm not saying the TF-X will be able to supercruise either, I'm just saying we don't know yet, and simply comparing engine thrusts between different airframes won't tell you the answer either. You have to take into account various aerodynamic factors too.

 

[-SINAN-]

It's not rocket science - it's aerospace engineering.

"it's not rocket science" in British English: used to say that you do not think that something is very difficult to do or to understand: it's not rocket science Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

First of all, the EJ230, not 200, will be used the TF-X, so that's the engine you should be considering.

- EJ-230 has %30 more output doesn't really matters. When compared F-119's 180 kN output.

Secondly, where are the calculations you did where you figured out what the F-22's sustained airspeed at military thrust would be if it had 2 x EJ230 engines (let's say 140kN) with a clean A2A weapons load and full fuel load?

Supercruise is not measured by empty weight but operational weight. Applies in both of my examples.

You can't just compare engine thrusts and call it a day. You already pointed out the example of the Typhoon which is able to supercruise while the F-35 can't, even though the Typhoon is bigger than the F-35. It even uses the weaker EJ200 engine instead of the EJ230 which the TF-X will use.

As i said before.

Typhoon can achieve supercruise with EJ-200 but Typhoon is not a 5th gen jet. When you say internal weapons bay + stealth, airframe of the aircraft tends to go larger which makes the aircraft heavier.

More bulkier, have a higher drag coeffiecnt.

I'm not saying the TF-X will be able to supercruise either, I'm just saying we don't know yet, and simply comparing engine thrusts between different airframes won't tell you the answer either. You have to take into account various aerodynamic factors too.

Mate, IF TF-X gonna be stealth jet with internal weapon bays, you can be sure that it's going to be much larger than typhoon, something comparable to F-22

Here are the 5th gen jet designs.

And you can be sure that ıf TF-X gonna be a 5th gen fighter, you are not going to sustain super-cruise with EF-200 or EJ-230.

 

[drunken-monke]

Let's put it this way bro....let's remove F-119s engines from F-22 and install EJ-200.

2 x F-119 = 360 kN thrust versus 2 x EJ-200 = 120 kN thrust.

F-35 with it's single F-135 engine (125 kN) is unable to achieve super-cruise.

It's not rocket science to figure out that with 2 x EJ-200 engines F-22 can't achieve super-cruise. Similar to our TF-X

First of all, you are comparing F119's thrust with afterburner to that of EJ200's dry thrust..

Sing EJ produces 90 kn with reheat, hence two engines produces 180 kn with reheat.. With EJ230 having 30% more would come to 234 kn...