UzaySan
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2017
- Messages
- 673
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Our priority is our requirements. Better to have 50% domestic something than 100% percent of domestic nothing.
TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects
- Thread starter AtillaHun
- Start date
UzaySan
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2017
- Messages
- 673
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
I agree that we should use as much as domestic product.But if you cant do it you should use foreign parts. Otherwise TFX program become indian tejas
Kamil_baku
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2014
- Messages
- 2,648
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
imagine Turkey couldnt produce armor for tanks. You would use cheap armor which will end up losing tank and the crew in a fight. instead you could import it and make sure its secure...
but, after years of importing, Turkey started to produce armor to 6 level which is highest now, they can use it.. it also push companies to develop the best technolgy possible to be competitive..
Government might fund their R&D instead
even the Turbojet engine ktj-3200 from kale riched 33000 rmp in the latest test video. i don t think it is a big issue for the tei to get 40000 rpm. they also startet to develop all the nessasary material. there are now many ongoing projects .
@Borg
We definetly do not have that material technology if we have not reach it in the last 1-2 years.
I am not a specialist in turbines but I know a little bit about materials.
Turbines have a certain optimum rpm for each design. Probably TS1400 did not reach 50-60 thousand rpms because simply it does not need it. I am not going to talk about TS1400 but I will meka a comparision.
You can not consider one variable in a very complicated system like a turbine but I will keep is very simple. Lets just consider turbine blades and tempreature under various rpms. Take 2 different models. One is small like TS1400 and other large as a fighter jet's turbine.
Small turbine blades gets less stress because of centrifugal forces. Why? Simple; they have smaller diameters. That is just simple. When you get larger diameter stresses become more significant. This is why you can use just chrome with a very small turbine and get 100-120k rpms.
With higher temperatures your material simply gets softer. (Keeping simple) This is why we need very complicated alloys for turbines. And this is why monocrystalline materials are used for this purpose generally because they are very durable against extreme stresses. (not always but monocrystalline materials are very common in turbines)
When you get into turbines for fighter jets you get a lot of problems. First of all they are really hot and really large. This is the worst thing while designing something with very high rpms. You need hell lot of material knowlage. Plus; while they are working a lot of variable accerelation for various directions are applied. This is something you do not want on a really fast spinning metal chunk because you dont even want a very small precession which will result with complete disaster. So; you need much more durable material for that turbine which is moving in a maneuvering plane than a turbine which is stationary. List goes on... An expert on turbines would be more helpful for those details.
I believe that we don't have technology for high end turbines yet. But we can get that technology within our country by the work of defence industry and civillian industry. For example Tekfen has some amazing superalloy production capabilities for static systems like extremly high pressure tanks. With collabaration within out companies I think we can archive that.
Our country is definetly investing on material knowlage which is our biggest problem in developing and producing new technologies for a long time. As I said before in many posts; we have many amazing experts both in and outside of our country. We just need planning. We can build that type of technologies but we just need willpower and planning.
We definetly do not have that material technology if we have not reach it in the last 1-2 years.
I am not a specialist in turbines but I know a little bit about materials.
Turbines have a certain optimum rpm for each design. Probably TS1400 did not reach 50-60 thousand rpms because simply it does not need it. I am not going to talk about TS1400 but I will meka a comparision.
You can not consider one variable in a very complicated system like a turbine but I will keep is very simple. Lets just consider turbine blades and tempreature under various rpms. Take 2 different models. One is small like TS1400 and other large as a fighter jet's turbine.
Small turbine blades gets less stress because of centrifugal forces. Why? Simple; they have smaller diameters. That is just simple. When you get larger diameter stresses become more significant. This is why you can use just chrome with a very small turbine and get 100-120k rpms.
With higher temperatures your material simply gets softer. (Keeping simple) This is why we need very complicated alloys for turbines. And this is why monocrystalline materials are used for this purpose generally because they are very durable against extreme stresses. (not always but monocrystalline materials are very common in turbines)
When you get into turbines for fighter jets you get a lot of problems. First of all they are really hot and really large. This is the worst thing while designing something with very high rpms. You need hell lot of material knowlage. Plus; while they are working a lot of variable accerelation for various directions are applied. This is something you do not want on a really fast spinning metal chunk because you dont even want a very small precession which will result with complete disaster. So; you need much more durable material for that turbine which is moving in a maneuvering plane than a turbine which is stationary. List goes on... An expert on turbines would be more helpful for those details.
I believe that we don't have technology for high end turbines yet. But we can get that technology within our country by the work of defence industry and civillian industry. For example Tekfen has some amazing superalloy production capabilities for static systems like extremly high pressure tanks. With collabaration within out companies I think we can archive that.
Our country is definetly investing on material knowlage which is our biggest problem in developing and producing new technologies for a long time. As I said before in many posts; we have many amazing experts both in and outside of our country. We just need planning. We can build that type of technologies but we just need willpower and planning.
All the Indian examples are ahead of us, Partnering with other countries what really made Pakistan's development and purchase programs possible. JF17 wouldnt be possible without it. But We need higher local content ratio then Pak/jf17 and We need to single handedly spearhead the project and gain the know-how. and we need to increase our local content ratio after each aircraft we produced which is what we did in last 20 years in all of our military projects. That is the only economical way to realize such ambitious projects.
Malpsoy
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- May 14, 2017
- Messages
- 569
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Ismaildemir;
He stated that the TF-X project continues, general aspects of the aircraft have emerged and new foreign partnerships at certain stages of the program, and some countries that are friendly and allied.
He stated that the TF-X project continues, general aspects of the aircraft have emerged and new foreign partnerships at certain stages of the program, and some countries that are friendly and allied.
Silahtar
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2016
- Messages
- 956
- Reaction score
- 17
- Country
- Location
Bismarck
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2011
- Messages
- 4,807
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Try to close the opening (gap) between the hull of the plane and engine inlets as we can see on F-35.
CAN_TR
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2018
- Messages
- 3,417
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
It's not even clear if the TF-X will look exactly like this.
UzaySan
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2017
- Messages
- 673
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
But design must be almost complete. We will see a mock-up in Paris air show
TheMightyBender
MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,146
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
Try to maintain the opening (gap) between the hull of the plane and engine inlets as we can see on F-22.
Khagan1923
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2016
- Messages
- 795
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Turn this thing into a 4.5++ Jet. At least Block 1.
Like the South Koreans are doing it with the KF-X.
Block 1 with stealth elements and inferior engines. Future Blocks will include internal bays and superior engines. Order the best possible engine from Russia and develop your own NG Engine over the next 10-15 years. Block 3/4 can then be equiped with internal bays, more stealth elements and engines that actually can take advantage of it. If European countries are willing to work order engines from the UK.
This Jet could replace parts of our Air Force already in the mid 2020s and future Blocks would be ready with Turkish engines in the beginning or mid 2030s.
We don't need the best available jets.
We can cover every single operation theatre with our future Air Defence Systems (S-400, Hisar U, Hisar-O, Hisar-A, Korkut, Siper, TF-2000) be it the black sea, Balkans, Aegan Sea, Thracia, Caucus, Middle East, Mediterranean. We will always have the superior hand in the air because of that, no jet in the world will able to compensate for that from any country around us. Not Greece, not Russia, not Iraq, not Iran, not Israel, not Syria, not SA, no one.
And I think the Air Force nows this, that is why they aren't bothered with the threats from the US.
Like the South Koreans are doing it with the KF-X.
Block 1 with stealth elements and inferior engines. Future Blocks will include internal bays and superior engines. Order the best possible engine from Russia and develop your own NG Engine over the next 10-15 years. Block 3/4 can then be equiped with internal bays, more stealth elements and engines that actually can take advantage of it. If European countries are willing to work order engines from the UK.
This Jet could replace parts of our Air Force already in the mid 2020s and future Blocks would be ready with Turkish engines in the beginning or mid 2030s.
We don't need the best available jets.
We can cover every single operation theatre with our future Air Defence Systems (S-400, Hisar U, Hisar-O, Hisar-A, Korkut, Siper, TF-2000) be it the black sea, Balkans, Aegan Sea, Thracia, Caucus, Middle East, Mediterranean. We will always have the superior hand in the air because of that, no jet in the world will able to compensate for that from any country around us. Not Greece, not Russia, not Iraq, not Iran, not Israel, not Syria, not SA, no one.
And I think the Air Force nows this, that is why they aren't bothered with the threats from the US.
Similar threads
