TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[UzaySan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/998509286815911937

 

[Armchair]

EJ2000 isn't in the race anymore thought, EuroJet withdraw their offer after it was found to be unsatisfying. If it was and they only had to modify it I would agree that 2023 is doable but the only option now are a joint-venture by Kale and Rolls-Royce and I believe a Turkish company can't remember who though. And both option will develop a engine from the beginning whose rights will belong to Turkey fully but it will take years to do so. And when you add the contract talks after the decision has been made which it still hasn't and you see that 2023 is impossible to do. If they don't make a decision in the next year or couple months on who gets the tender even 2026 could become very critical as a date.

I am not sure what engine the EJ-2000 you keep referring to is. Are you talking about the EJ-200? Or is this "EJ-2000" something that is developed specially for Turkey?

 

[UzaySan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/998529535938301952

Why BMC get involved everything? I think Bmc wants to be a company like Lockheed Martin.Anyway important thing is it will be domestic doesnt matter who

 

[Indos]

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...jet-partnership-with-indonesia-falling-apart/

The Korea - Indonesia cooperation on KF-X is falling apart. It is time to snatch Indonesia and bring them to our side.
The reason Indonesia is shying away from the deal is because of, surprise surprise, US involvement. KFX uses some US tech that is not allowed to fall in Indonesian hands. As such Indonesia has neither the right to produce the whole aircraft domestically, nor sell it to other countries.

With us, however, that problem doesnt exist. We faced similar problems with the US and, accordingly, have learned our lesson. For the right price we could offer them full domestic production and even export rights.

We dont get RAM and internal weapon bay, beside that they didnt give our engineers access to research US technology. Despite that problem, Indonesia participation still continues. Currently we are negotiating.

You can check on this: http://www.janes.com/article/79727/indonesia-wants-to-renegotiate-kfx-fighter-project

Yup, I do agree that we could cooperate with you if something happen with this program. Actually we are quite good at design, there are 82 Indonesian engineers on the KFX program which is more than 20 % of total engineers involved (our participation only 20 %). It means our involvement is needed by Korean. C 103 design is also a cooperation between South Korean government researcher (ADD) with 32 Indonesian engineers. There is no KA1 involvement on C 103 design, which is a current base design that is being worked on.

Indonesian has also design 5 generation fighter alone The designers are from LAPAN (Government researcher) not from PT DI (Dirgantara Indonesia).

LFX (Lapan Fighter Experiment)

I believe Turkey and Indonesia has agreed secretly to develop TFX together, as they signed medium weight tank and Anka 2 development recently...
Turkey can offer indonesia 20% production which is actually just body parts will be enough as they also have experience for that...
On the other hand, if they secure 100-150 orders which they deffinitely need it, it will give Turkey upper hand and UK will even be more interested about the project as the cost will come down a lot...
Its also a win situation for Indonesia as they can trust Turkey that no matter what Turkey will fulfill their needs in hard time as in history...

Ya, Turkey and Indonesia defense industry cooperation is much closer now. It is started by Susilo Bambang Yudoyono (SBY) administration which is Nationalist Religius and Islamist parties coalition. Today the cooperation is still nurtured as well. Other cooperation is in N 219 and N 245 plane.

Indonesian sees Turkey positively. There are many Erdogan fans in Indonesia.

 

[azyr]

https://twitter.com/x/status/998529535938301952

Why BMC get involved everything? I think Bmc wants to be a company like Lockheed Martin.Anyway important thing is it will be domestic doesnt matter who

What the hell??

•TR Motor Guc Sistemleri AS gelistirecek (%55 BMC, %35 TEI, %10 SSM ortakligi)

This is a blatant ripoff. BMC who hasn't proven itself even in land machines is getting %55 of the new jet motor company that is probably the future of this country. This is akin to treachery, it's ridiculous.

TEI, the actual company that was founded SPECIFICALLY for this job is now sandwich wrapped inside another company that just popped up to create the power pack. It's complete asshattery.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

What the hell??



This is a blatant ripoff. BMC who hasn't proven itself even in land machines is getting %55 of the new jet motor company that is probably the future of this country. This is akin to treachery, it's ridiculous.

TEI, the actual company that was founded SPECIFICALLY for this job is now sandwich wrapped inside another company that just popped up to create the power pack. It's complete asshattery.

TR motor company is going to be a company on it's own. The shareholders behind this company isn't really relevant. And you may hate BMC, but you gotta applaud their attitude, they have ambitions to grow as a company and are actively and aggressively trying to expand their business in especially the critical parts of the industry, mainly engine development, and with this revelation they show that they also want work on plane engines.

I feel like many members here hate BMC just to hate.
I personally am liking BMC more and more by the day. I love the pro-active attitude they have and it seems like they want to prove themselves in the market. They are taking risks by getting involved in so many projects. I feel like they might be overextended (financially) when it comes to this, but fortune favors the bold. I don't know how far their ambitions reach, but if they want to be like a Lockheed Martin or a BAE then I wish them all the best, but in order to achieve that, they need to make all these products in house and/or under their own brand though (like what these companies do mostly).

As of 2016 their ambition for 2020 was to achieve a turnover of 2 billion euro (40% of which for export) with 4000 personnel, their turnover in 2016 was 800 million TRL.
http://www.milscint.com/tr/soylesi-bmc-yonetim-kurulu-uyesi-t-yasin-ozturk-2/
https://www.yeniasir.com.tr/ekonomi/2016/11/01/bmc-gitmiyor-buyuyor

There is also TAEC (Kale-Rolls Royce joint venture) that will also compete for the TFX engine. But with the involvement of SSM as well as Rolls Royce in TR Motor, I don't know how this will go for them. They might have a better chance competing for Hurject engine's.

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Our defence projects are funded by Qatar and BMC owned by Qatar. So Qatar must get some money back from those defence projects. This is simple rule of business.

That's the why BMC involves in ever single projects.

Do you guys really think that Turkish economy is big enough to finance those projects?

 

[neosinan]

Our defence projects are funded by Qatar and BMC owned by Qatar. So Qatar must get some money back from those defence projects. This is simple rule of business.

That's the why BMC involves in ever single projects.

Do you guys really think that Turkish economy is big enough to finance those projects?

BMC/Qatar will help finance these projects, without Foreign cash such a project is financially beyond our reach right now.

 

[bsruzm]

TR motor company is going to be a company on it's own. The shareholders behind this company isn't really relevant. And you may hate BMC, but you gotta applaud their attitude, they have ambitions to grow as a company and are actively and aggressively trying to expand their business in especially the critical parts of the industry, mainly engine development, and with this revelation they show that they also want work on plane engines.

I feel like many members here hate BMC just to hate.
I personally am liking BMC more and more by the day. I love the pro-active attitude they have and it seems like they want to prove themselves in the market. They are taking risks by getting involved in so many projects. I feel like they might be overextended (financially) when it comes to this, but fortune favors the bold. I don't know how far their ambitions reach, but if they want to be like a Lockheed Martin or a BAE then I wish them all the best, but in order to achieve that, they need to make all these products in house and/or under their own brand though (like what these companies do mostly).

As of 2016 their ambition for 2020 was to achieve a turnover of 2 billion euro (40% of which for export) with 4000 personnel, their turnover in 2016 was 800 million TRL.
http://www.milscint.com/tr/soylesi-bmc-yonetim-kurulu-uyesi-t-yasin-ozturk-2/
https://www.yeniasir.com.tr/ekonomi/2016/11/01/bmc-gitmiyor-buyuyor

There is also TAEC (Kale-Rolls Royce joint venture) that will also compete for the TFX engine. But with the involvement of SSM as well as Rolls Royce in TR Motor, I don't know how this will go for them. They might have a better chance competing for Hurject engine's.

Name is nice, too. BMC! I am neutral lol

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

BMC/Qatar will help finance these projects, without Foreign cash such a project is financially beyond our reach right now.

Unfortunately yes.

 

[TheMightyBender]

It is a Turkish company, with 100% Turkish employees and 100% of ip rights owned by Turkey. Qatar is just investing in, and funding our projects. It is really hard to find something to complain about here, but here we are.

 

[UzaySan]

Our defence projects are funded by Qatar and BMC owned by Qatar. So Qatar must get some money back from those defence projects. This is simple rule of business.

That's the why BMC involves in ever single projects.

Do you guys really think that Turkish economy is big enough to finance those projects?

Actually Its good that we are using qatar money. Qatar pays we get tech.

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Actually Its good that we are using qatar money. Qatar pays we get tech.

Yeah I am ok with it as well.

 

[-SINAN-]

It is a Turkish company, with 100% Turkish employees and 100% of ip rights owned by Turkey. Qatar is just investing in, and funding our projects. It is really hard to find something to complain about here, but here we are.

Yeah... giving one of the world's most complex machine's development&production project ( other 2 being, cryogenic engine and nuclear detonation device) to a company that has zero experience with engines.

Nothing to complain about....

Maybe next, Sütaş will make our SLV's rockets.

 

[xenon54 out]

At this speed one after another Turkish defence company will be pushed out of business because of unfair deals, competition will die out, i dont know how this can be defended in any way.