Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed.

[ziaulislam]

overall the terroist attck was successful in its objective to cause mass causalities and they did that 23 PAF employees is big target

 

[Mrc]

Security of all bases needs to be brought into the 21st century.. hd cctv, double walls and multiple security cordones...i hope some one is listening

 

[Neutron]

a weak spot is plcae where people gather, the mosque should have been more secure loation. this is happening again and again . better planning is needed, even now multiple bases have next to zerp security besides a boundary wall. we need better tech

Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower

 

[Shamain]

I read your full post and retracted the snarl of a response . I think we all have to understand the difficult task facing the ISI. They get hundreds of reports of impending attacks but how do you determine which one to act upon. The resources are limited and you can only do so much. There maybe a lot of "daikha jaiga jee" which is inherent in our mindset. While agreeing that the mindset needs to change softer targets will always remain vulnerable as army cannot be every where. These are difficult times and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.
Analyse any event in history and you will see a clear trend of evid3nce pointing to the event. Why was it not acted upon is sometimes the negligence of one person, or the simple case of distribution of resources to guard the hard targets. N9thing is ever perfect with a retrospectoscope. We are in a state of war and losses though regetful will happen. This is the ground reality.
As to candies you can send them to @ jaibi. Iam sure he will be very pleased to receive them. I am not at the candy eating stage now
A

But u cant deny that all the military bases that were attacked in the past including karachi airport,we had security lapses. Forget abt any impending attack alerts.the kind of security measures that need to be in place at these places were missing.
I wud any given day excuse lack of security at badaber camp but rest..can we?

 

[Lurch Adams]

Pakistan Army needs all its resources to fight TTP. They could easily deal with the TTP if only they didn't block all resources on the Eastern front where they want Pakistanis to believe that India is just waiting to pounce on them. Why don't they just let the civilian government handle the peace process with India? Why do they have to insist on fighting an imaginary enemy when their real enemy is very much inside the country?

 

[Humble Analyst]

at the end of the day we can agree on as long as is safe, doesn't matter which approach is used.

Wall is it practical, physically and economically?

 

[Path-Finder]

Wall is it practical, physically and economically?

I believe it is, a personal opinion I have. There is a alternative system in place now which seems to be working!

 

[Informant]

Itnay app bengaali baba rehtay nahi

Bak bak nahin karta bas .

2 days.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower

The utilization of available resources is innovation. Everybody can win plenty of resources and man power. England won 2nd World war by bringing in USA and USSR that is diplomacy, strategy planning and innovation. We need to think out of the box!

 

[Pak_Track]

I dont want to be in power but we should not stuck either


Yes but there are chances they wont and there are shock guns which paralize human fod 5 min

Tranq and shock guns are, overall, ineffective in firefights. Terrorists are often high on drugs as well, so shock guns won't work on them. Also, you need to be close to deploy a stun gun.
It's really hard to take in someone alive, who's willing to go down the hardest way possible.

 

[Mrc]

Thinking out of box wins wars

 

[ice_man]

Pakistan Army needs all its resources to fight TTP. They could easily deal with the TTP if only they didn't block all resources on the Eastern front where they want Pakistanis to believe that India is just waiting to pounce on them. Why don't they just let the civilian government handle the peace process with India? Why do they have to insist on fighting an imaginary enemy when their real enemy is very much inside the country?

the real enemy is on the eastern border the one that sponsors the TTP.

so yes we cannot turn our backs to the snake. and when we try to engage the enemy on the west. You start LoC violations to protect your beloved TTP.

 

[DV RULES]

I read your full post and retracted the snarl of a response . I think we all have to understand the difficult task facing the ISI. They get hundreds of reports of impending attacks but how do you determine which one to act upon. The resources are limited and you can only do so much. There maybe a lot of "daikha jaiga jee" which is inherent in our mindset. While agreeing that the mindset needs to change softer targets will always remain vulnerable as army cannot be every where. These are difficult times and difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.
Analyse any event in history and you will see a clear trend of evid3nce pointing to the event. Why was it not acted upon is sometimes the negligence of one person, or the simple case of distribution of resources to guard the hard targets. N9thing is ever perfect with a retrospectoscope. We are in a state of war and losses though regetful will happen. This is the ground reality.
As to candies you can send them to @ jaibi. Iam sure he will be very pleased to receive them. I am not at the candy eating stage now
A

Issue is not about ISI but readiness of CRF or DSF within their duties. In all previous attacks on PAF Bases we have observed that PAF has no combat level we have in PA and that is obvious because of their particular job description, since we came to know about multiple level security system introduced by Pakistan armed forces as CRF-LCF-SSW/SSG. If there is 0 Tolerance security or "first barrier is the last barrier" Pakistan armed forces must managed the things to such extent where any mishap will encountered & terminated at first barrier. I am agree with you when you are saying that the general doctrine in our people of "Dekhi Jai Gi" is the main problem but when we are talking about organized institution like Armed forces & in environment of War on Terrorism there is no reason of flexibility in protection of state assets vital for its National security.

Next main problem and grave concern we are facing is permission of residential plotting/societies, colonies around armed forces strategic installations. In general scenarios military officials are to be blamed when their business interests are vital than security of strategic installations after all nobody hates money. That's an open secret.

Just for an example new Airport in Lahore was very far from residential area at the time of its opening but now Property Mafia covered that space by attracting people by advertising " Residential Luxury scheme at 5min drive from Airport"? Question: whom to blame over this grave mistake? Civilian or military property businessmen cashed every opportunity jeopardizing strategic assets. Let's think that....Who will oppose to Retired or On duty General/Brigadier if they decided to invest money in a Housing Scheme located at 5min drive to Airport? Nobody...in our actual official or social business environment and people will invest because it was protected by Army General of Air Marshal or Admiral what so ever.
Come to next scenario, shops and unplanned housing; if you want to stop construction then best time is to resist over first brick. Shops were allowed so people make their way to construct by this opportunity so first then second then a whole small town. Question who should ban them? Civilian government! No...that's not their duty. That's the duty of Armed forces management not to allow any construction and inform civilian government to take necessary action against unsanctioned or unplanned housing structure may threat state's strategic assets. In my point of view there shouldn't be any construction within 800 Meters of radius minimum then we will be able to protect any installation in true meanings when Ist check post with QRF personnel at 300 meter from installation boundary will be last Check post. Rest of 500 meters could be secured by Civilian Elite forces who will check every in & outbound traffic from/to Ist CP.

Mosques always should be there where minimum 70 meter surrounding area is plain without a single branch of plants & mosques should be constructed approximate 250 Meters from Entrance & 150 meter at distance from boundary.

These are issues which must be addressed to prepare any installation (no matter if it is functional or not) for potential attack. Just making attentions toward bravery and determination question of security will not solve....need practical measures.

Intelligence is doing its job efficiently and there is reason because intelligence gave warning to Peshawar administration and KPK interior ministry sent letter (867 .....I might be mistaken about Number) to military establishment in August about possible attack on APS. There were news that even prime Intelligence agency warned over terrorist attack in APS. But as you said.....Dekha Jai Ga and we get result of Shahadat of 135 Kids.

Even no step has been taken despite intelligence reports that Badaber PAF camp could be potential target for terrorists but again administrative faults.

Since we couldn't take responsibility of duty in real sense as each Pakistani, we couldn't fight effectively and save innocent lives and strategic assets.

I can accept that nothing is perfect & not perfect when i am saying about responsibility of duty but being a nation and when a war is declared on us we must increase intensity of responsibilities. There is no relaxation until Pakistan will get its goals in this war and that should be clear to all who ever and where ever within territory of Pakistan.

 

[araz]

But u cant deny that all the military bases that were attacked in the past including karachi airport,we had security lapses. Forget abt any impending attack alerts.the kind of security measures that need to be in place at these places were missing.
I wud any given day excuse lack of security at badaber camp but rest..can we?

Yes fair enough the security at Karachi and possibly at Kamra was lax and should be accepted as such. There are a myriad of problems one has to accept. Some of them pertain to perceptions others due to cold hard facts. We are very reactive as a nation and inspite of attacks on Musharraf no one latched on to the fact that the air bases could be a target. So Karachi happened and then we still are in a state of confusion about Kamra. However we lost 2 platforms at karachi and one more at Kamra. So from that point of view this was sloppy piece of work. Kamra given the official version maybe defendable but Karachi certainly not. We dont have the money to build high walls around each and evey base. Other than the time taken the money remains a problem.All the chiefs and PMs cars would probably not be worth more than a 20 foot high wall around a couple of bases if not one. Obviously we need to find resources but traditionally mosques have been open areas utilized by all and sundry. We may have to rethink and replan our strategy butthen what do you do to schools. The problem 9f deal8ng with vermin is they will not stop at anything. You may wall up all the bases but the masses will still remain insecure as by their warped logic anyone remotely related to the forces is a genuine target. So where do we go. The sort of planning and execution should have been done from 2001 but no one believed the war will come back to haunt us. However we need to plan for the future and inspite of all the speed there wont be perimeter walls around all the bases 8n all the towns and around all the Garrisons.
Next if you built perimeter walls what will you do to the incidence of people taking a pot shot or launching an RPG towards a hangar. It may reduce te risk but certainly does not exclude it completely
A

 

[ziaulislam]

overall the terroist attck was successful in its objective to cause mass causalities and they did that 23 PAF employees is big target

Military is overstretched. You don't have enough resources and manpower

world 5th largest army is over stretched. we have over a million troops, counting the paramilitery!