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Tejas(LCA)- Setting the record straight

We dont say that JF-17 is 100% Pakistan and China made.
Atleast we have bater radar and enjine and jet is in the air....

But ur still undecided abt LCA

Still no engine and radar is decided for LCA.....

Dont srum....it shows that ur child.


I thought the Radar for Pakistan Airforce's JF-17 is not yet decided ! :what:
And the Italian FIAR Grifo S-7 on Pakistani versions lacks multi-targets tracing and attacking capability !
 
FC-1 / JF-17 Multirole Fighter Aircraft

Official designation: Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Xiaolong
PAF designation: Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder
Function: Air-superiority; Ground attack
Designer: Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute)
Manufacturer: Chengdu Aircraft Industry (Group) Corporation Ltd. (CAC)
Maiden flight: 25 August 2003
Operator: Pakistani Air Force
Estimated cost: US$15~20 million

The FC-1 (Fighter China-1) Xiaolong is the result of a joint Sino-Pakistani development programme that started in 1999, with each side contributing 50% of the total development cost. Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China is the prime contractor for aircraft development and manufacture, while Pakistani Aeronautical Complex (PAC) is the main partner responsible for post-sale service and maintenance, as well as the production of some parts for the aircraft in Pakistan. The aircraft was designed by Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute). Russia supplied its Klimov RD-93 turbofan jet engine for the aircraft.

The initial order was from the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) for eight aircraft, which were delivered in 2007~08. A further order for 42 aircraft worth about US$800 million was signed in March 2009. The aircraft is currently being built by CAC at a rate of 15 aircraft per annum, and this will increase to 30 aircraft per annum later. The total number required by the PAF could be as many as 250, worth US$3~5 billion.

Several other countries also showed interest in the aircraft. Despite previous reports suggesting that the FC-1 would also be equipped by the PLAAF, no order has been reported so far.

Programme

The FC-1 traces its origin to the Super-7 fighter programme, a joint Chengdu-Grumman development project worth US$500 million to upgrade the Chinese J-7 (MiG-21) fighter. Proposed upgrades included removing the fighter's nose air intake and replacing it with a ‘solid’ nose with two lateral air intakes, as well as upgrading the fighter with Western-made avionics and engine. The development agreement was signed in 1986, but the programme was cancelled in 1990, in the wake of the cooling political relations between China and the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project.

Chengdu continued the Super-7 project independently and re-branded the design as FC-1. In 1999, China and Pakistan concluded a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1 fighter. Under the agreement, the programme was to be jointly funded by the China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan, each with 50% stake of the joint venture. The total cost of the development programme was estimated to be US$150 million. Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) reportedly provided some assistance in the development of the aircraft

The first prototype of the FC-1 rolled out on 31 May 2003, and the aircraft made its maiden flight successfully on 25 August. A total of three flying prototypes were developed, along with a static prototype. Flight trial of the aircraft completed in 2005 and the aircraft entered production in June 2006.


JF-17 of the Pakistani Air Force (Chinese Military Aviation)


In March 2007, CAC delivered two JF-17 fighters (#101, #102) to the PAF on 12 March 2007. They made their debut on 23 March during a fly-past as part of the Pakistan Day military parade in Islamabad. A further six aircraft were delivered to the PAF in 2008. Under the joint development agreement, the PAF will acquire up to 250 examples of the fighter in several batches, with the avionics systems gradually upgraded in later batches. Some production will also be carried out by PAC in Pakistan, including the manufacture of the aircraft’s wings and fin.

CAC and CATIC are also actively marketing the FC-1 to other developing countries as a low-cost replacement for the Northrop F-5 Tiger, Dassault Mirage III/5, Shenyang J-6, MiG-21/F-7 Fishbed, and Nanchang Q-5. Potential customers could include Bangladesh, Iran, Egypt and Nigeria.

Design

The FC-1 adopts a rather conventional aerodynamic layout, with mid-mounted wings, lateral air intakes, single-frame bubble cockpit canopy, and two under-belly stabilising fins. The drag chute bay is located at the root of the rudder. An electronic equipment pod is mounted on the tip of the rudder. The formal production variant of the FC-1 features a diffuser supersonic inlet (DSI) similar to those of the U.S. F-35 fighter for better air-intake efficiency.

Radar

The JF-17s in service with the PAF are fitted with an Italian Grifo S-7 multi-track, multi-mode, pulse Doppler radar radar. The radar has 25 working modes and a non-break-down time of 200 hours, and is capable of “look-down, shoot-down”, as well as for ground strike abilities. Alternatively, the aircraft can be fitted with the Thales RC400, GEC Marconi Blue Hawk, Russian Phazotron Zemchug/Kopyo, and Chinese indigenous KLJ-7 developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET).

Cockpit and Avionics Systems


The FC-1 / JF-17 features a ‘glass cockpit’ with three large multifunctional displays (Chinese Internet)


The FC-1’s avionics architecture is supported by two mission computers based on Multi-Bus System (MIL-STD-1553B). The heart of the system is a 32-bit Weapon and Mission management Computer (WMMC) which performs mission computations, flight management, reconfiguration / redundancy management and in-flight system self-test.

■Navigation -- Hybrid inertial navigation system (INS) and global positioning system (GPS);
■Communications -- Independent data link with two Independent wide-band radios with anti-jamming capabilities;
■Electronic warfare (EW) -- Self production jammer, missile approach warning system, radar warning receiver (RWR), chaff & flare dispenser;
■Identification of Friend and foe (IFF) -- IFF interrogator for target verification at the BVR range;
■‘Glass’ cockpit -- Three large Multifunction Colour Displays (MFD) and smart Heads-Up Display (HUD) with built-in symbol generation capability; HOTAS;
■Targeting -- Laser Designator and Targeting Pod (LDTP) for target illumination and detection with day/ night capabilities;
Weapons

Fixed weapon includes a GSh-23 dual-barrel 23mm cannon. Alternatively the aircraft can be fitted with a GSh-30 dual-30mm cannon. There are 7 stores stations, including one under the fuselage, 4 under the wings, and 2 wingtip mounted, with up to 3,700kg weapon payload.

The aircraft is callable of ‘beyond-visual-range’ (BVR) attack capability with the PL-12/SD-10 active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM) developed by China Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute (LETRI, also known as 607 Institute). The aircraft also carries two short-range AAMs on its wingtip-mounted launch rails. The options include U.S. AIM-9P and Chinese PL-7, PL-8, and PL-9.

The aircraft can carry a special pod allowing day/night delivery of laser-guided weapons. In addition, it can also carry unguided weapons such as low-drag general-purpose (LDGP) bombs and unguided rocket launchers.

Engine

The FC-1/JF-17 is powered by a Russian-made Klimov RD-93 turbofan jet engine rated 49.4kN dry or 84.4kN with afterburning. The RD-93 is a derivation of the RD-33 used by the MiG-29 fighter. In 2007, China signed a contract with Russia to supply 150 RD-93 engines for the JF-17 production.

Liyang Aero Engine Corporation in Guizhou is reportedly developing an indigenous turbofan engine designated WS-13 (or Tianshan-21) as an alterative powerplant option for the FC-1. The engine was said to have been based on the RD-93 design with some modifications.

Specifications

Crew: One
Length: 14m
Wingspan: 8.5m (without wingtip missiles)
Wing area: 24.4m2
Height: 5.10m
Empty weight: 6,411kg
Loaded weight: 9,100kg (without two wingtip missiles)
Take-off weight: (normal) 9,100kg; (maximum) 12,700kg
Fuel capacity: 2,300kg
In-flight refuelling: No
Weapon payload: 3,700kg
Powerplant: 1X Russian RD-93 turbofan, rated at 49.4kN dry or 84.4kN with afterburning
Max level speed: Mach 1.6~1.8 (high altitude)
Max climb rate: N/A
Service ceiling: 16,700m
Ferry range: 3,000km
Combat radius: 1,350km
G limit: -3 ~ +8.5
Fixed weapon: 23mm or 30mm single-barrel cannon
External hardpoints: Seven (1 under the fuselage centerline; 4 under the wings; 2 on the wingtips)

Last update: 13 March 2009
FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com
:smitten::pakistan::china:
 
The word "indigenous" should be used carefully. When we say it, it means that not only the system is designed and manufactured in the country, but also all the critical parts that makes up for the system, including types of materials, eletronics, weapon systems, engines..., and on top of that, these components can be reproduced and improved by the same countries without outside assistance.

The LCA, as far as I know, uses GE engine, imports all of its composite materials (India does not have the ability to manufacture composite yet), European designed AESA radar (EADS), European designed flight system (BaE and GmbH). Also, the original design of the LCA had plenty of assistance from the same French team that designed the Rafael. By this standard, calling it "indigenous" is inappropriate at the present state, at least not until India is able to upgrade the plane without significant foreign assistance.

Unfortunately your Information is very Inaccurate.

The Indian government's "self-reliance" goals for the LCA include indigenous development of the three most sophisticated — and hence most challenging — systems: the fly-by-wire (FBW) flight control system (FCS), multi-mode pulse-doppler radar, and afterburning turbofan engine. Although India has had a policy of strictly limiting foreign participation in the LCA programme, these are the only major LCA systems on which the ADA has had to invite significant foreign technological assistance and consultancy. Moreover, the engine and radar are also the only major systems for which the ADA has seriously considered substituting foreign equipment, albeit as an interim measure on the initial LCA aircraft where needed to allow more time for the full development of the indigenous versions — as has been the case with the LCA's Kaveri powerplant.

The ambitiousness of the LCA programme in terms of pursuing self-reliance in aviation technologies is illustrated by the fact that out of a total of 35 major avionics components and line-replaceable units (LRUs), only three involve foreign systems. These are the multi-function displays (MFDs) by Sextant (France) and Elbit (Israel), the helmet-mounted display and sight (HMDS) cueing system by Elbit, and the laser pod supplied by Rafael (Israel). However, even among these three, when the LCA reaches the production stage, the MFDs are expected to be supplied by Indian companies. A few other important items of equipment (such as the Martin-Baker ejection seat) have been imported. As a consequence of the embargo imposed on India after its nuclear weapons tests in May 1998, many items originally planned to be imported — like the landing gear — were instead developed indigenously .

Of the five critical technologies the ADA identified at the beginning of the LCA programme(Radar and engine are still in RnD) as needing to be mastered for India to be able to design and build a "completely indigenous" fighter, three have been entirely successful: the development and manufacture of advanced carbon-fibre composite (CFC) structures and skins (especially on the order of the size of a wing) and a modern "glass cockpit." In fact, ADA has had a profitable commercial spin-off in its Autolay integrated automated software system for the design and development of 3-D laminated composite elements (which has been licensed to both Airbus and Infosys).The NAL's CLAW team also eventually managed to successfully complete integration of the flight control laws indigenously, with the FCS software performing flawlessly for over 50 hours of pilot testing on TD-1, resulting in the aircraft being cleared for flight in early 2001. The LCA's maiden flight was made by TD-1 from National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), near Bangalore, on 4 January 2001, and its first successful supersonic flight followed on 1 August 2003. TD-2 was scheduled to make its first flight in September 2001, but this was not achieved until 6 June 2002. The Tejas' automatic flight control system (AFCS) has been highly praised by all of its test pilots, one of whom said that he found it easier to take off with the LCA than in a Mirage [2000].

The Hindu : LCA economics


These successes have gone mostly unnoticed in the shadow of the problems encountered with the other three key technology initiatives. Nonetheless, as a result of the accomplishments of India's domestic industries, presently about 70% of the components in LCA are manufactured in India and the dependence on imported components used would be progressively reduced in the coming years.

The Hindu : Tamil Nadu / Coimbatore News : ‘Indigenous production of LCA soon’

Other that the Three mentioned there the Only other two foreign components.

Are the Engine, which is still in development.



And The Radar,

Due to delay in development of MMR, government have come out with the collaboration with IAI for development of Radar the sensor for the new radar is supposed to be EL/M-2052 AESA from Elta and the remaining item and software will be combination of MMR and IAI developed products. Varadarajan, (Director — LRDE) has said that LRDE has initiated development of active electronically scanning array radar for airborne applications. And that these radars will be integrated with Tejas light combat aircraft-Mark II by 2012-13.

The reason it is Indigenous is because whilst foreign options were chosen for now.

Home grown technology exists or is in development.
Allowing India to Manufacture as many Tejas aircraft as to likes, Because it owns all technologies associated with it.
 
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The moment a new thread is opened in any forum; I bet ("Ican bet my entire fortune on this ") a Pakistani friend will start bashing it calling it an Failed project, Junk, Last chance aircraft etc etc.

Once a single person start that discussion it will never be a discussion on LCA. From then discussion will start from 2009 to 2008.... goes to Kargil war, 71 war, 60s war, 47s war and it wont stop their and it will go till babur or much beyond than that.

Well if Paksitanis feel that LCA is a failed project why do they take enough pain to involve in the discussion on a failed project. they could devote some time praising their success right.

LCA is a project done on Inidan tax payer money and Inidan tax payers will decide whether it is success or failure not some one who is spectating.

I have paide 15% of my sal for last 8 years and i feel that project LCA is not failure and i have the right to say that.


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Indians in any of the LCA topic or news will not start a single word mentioning JF17.they will compre it with what they have in india and not PAF .


But even your PAF personals on the inagural function of JF17 manufacturing compared JF17 with LCA.

One word. If JF17 is joint venture our Su 30 MKI is JV.

you have given the specification; we have given the sepecification for mki

you have provided the funding for development and here also we funded

Not sure what component JF17 has from PAK, but Su30 has many LCA derived component.

your are starting to manufacture it with kits and we are having around 70% local componenets and producting it at 15 ppy.


so if you really compare the project LCA with JF17 it is wrong..
Compare it with Su30 MKI....
 
The moment a new thread is opened in any forum; I bet ("Ican bet my entire fortune on this ") a Pakistani friend will start bashing it calling it an Failed project, Junk, Last chance aircraft etc etc.

Once a single person start that discussion it will never be a discussion on LCA. From then discussion will start from 2009 to 2008.... goes to Kargil war, 71 war, 60s war, 47s war and it wont stop their and it will go till babur or much beyond than that.

Well if Paksitanis feel that LCA is a failed project why do they take enough pain to involve in the discussion on a failed project. they could devote some time praising their success right.

LCA is a project done on Inidan tax payer money and Inidan tax payers will decide whether it is success or failure not some one who is spectating.

I have paide 15% of my sal for last 8 years and i feel that project LCA is not failure and i have the right to say that.


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Indians in any of the LCA topic or news will not start a single word mentioning JF17.they will compre it with what they have in india and not PAF .


But even your PAF personals on the inagural function of JF17 manufacturing compared JF17 with LCA.

One word. If JF17 is joint venture our Su 30 MKI is JV.

you have given the specification; we have given the sepecification for mki

you have provided the funding for development and here also we funded

Not sure what component JF17 has from PAK, but Su30 has many LCA derived component.

your are starting to manufacture it with kits and we are having around 70% local componenets and producting it at 15 ppy.


so if you really compare the project LCA with JF17 it is wrong..
Compare it with Su30 MKI....

Su30 with LCA derived componenets? Where did you hear that from? Su30 is heavy long range fighter, the LCA is light interceptor. I don't think their parts are interchangable.

I agree that it is not any spectator's job to decide the LCA's fate. It is not the Indian taxpayers' jobs, either. The decision belongs to the Indian Airforce.
 
i dont know why many people take LCA as a failed project it has not been closed and still development is going on but the one major thing is INDIA has gained experience in designing and developing a fighet which we lacked when we started the LCA program .the experience gained from this project will help in making the MCA and any other future planes

JF 17 was fully designed and developed by china so why do you people comment on this first try do develop ur own plane and then comment on others
 
with the development of LCA india has developed the fly-by-wire (FBW) flight control system (FCS), multi-mode pulse-doppler radar, and afterburning turbofan engine technologies
 
Su30 with LCA derived componenets? Where did you hear that from? Su30 is heavy long range fighter, the LCA is light interceptor. I don't think their parts are interchangable.

I agree that it is not any spectator's job to decide the LCA's fate. It is not the Indian taxpayers' jobs, either. The decision belongs to the Indian Airforce.


these are some of the indian components in Su30 MKI.

most of them are offshoots of LCA project..


Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE


some component might not be there but most found its way to su30 from LCA project.

Also LCA project and LCA product are two different things..

LCA product is not a static thing. it will change for ever ; so you can not say if it is success or failure based on an instance of time.

LCA project is already succesful as we have already proven the technology in TD1 and TD2.
 
i dont know why many people take LCA as a failed project it has not been closed and still development is going on but the one major thing is INDIA has gained experience in designing and developing a fighet which we lacked when we started the LCA program .the experience gained from this project will help in making the MCA and any other future planes

JF 17 was fully designed and developed by china so why do you people comment on this first try do develop ur own plane and then comment on others

nope the Jf17 was co-developed
 
as day passses i can feel that the incredible india will soon make some incredible products with incredible world records that will certainly astonish the whole world.
WAY TO GO, Incredible India.
 
We dont say that JF-17 is 100% Pakistan and China made.
Atleast we havebater radar and enjine and jet is in the air....

But ur still undecided abt LCA

Still no engine and radar is decided for LCA.....

Dont srum....it shows that ur child.

JF 17 (think that they want to change 71s scenario by this jet)

Engine : Klimov RD-33
Maximum Thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning

Radar : SELEX Galileo Grifo S7

Tejas

Engine
General Electric F-404 (for prototypes and initial batch)
Maximum Thrust: 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust, 17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner

Eurojet EJ200 (Eurojet EJ200 propulsion offer has thrust-vectoring) and the GE F-414 engines are under evaluation to power next batch of HAL Tejas.

Eurojet EJ200 :

Maximum Thrust: 13,500 lbf (60 kN) dry thrust / 20,000 lbf (90 kN) with reheat

GE F-414 :

Maximum Thrust: 22,000 lbf (98 kN)

Radar

The LCA's coherent pulse-Doppler Multi-Mode Radar is designed to keep track of a maximum of 10 targets and allows simultaneous multiple-target engagement. Jointly developed by the LRDE and HAL

new radar is supposed to be EL/M-2052 AESA from Elta
 
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There are hue and cry from some members regarding LCA development took 20 years and Pak-China completed in record time. .. Whats the time dude? Its time to check reality ...


PAC v/s HAL

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Production history
* JF-17 Thunder
* MFI-17 Mushshak
* MFI-395 Super Mushshak

Aircraft parts

* K-8 Karakorum (also known as Hongdu JL-8)

Aircraft maintenance components

* F-16 Fighting Falcon
* Dassault Mirage III and Dassault Mirage V
* Chengdu F-7
* Shenyang F-6
* Nanchang A-5

Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV)
* Ubabeel Aerial Drone – A small arms target designed for target practice use by operators of small arms, machine guns. Also used to train operators for the larger and faster Baaz Aerial Drone.[2]
* Baaz Aerial Drone – A recoverable aerial target designed for use with air defence guns and surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems.[3]
* SELEX Galileo Falco – A surveillance UAV, production began in August 2009.[4] [5]

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited

Fighter aircraft

* HF-24 Marut — Mk1 and Mk1T
* Tejas — Light Combat Aircraft
* FGFA — under joint-development with the Sukhoi Corporation
* MCA — India’s indigenous stealth fighter
* Su-30MKI, a derivative of Sukhoi Su-27 co-developed with Sukhoi Corporation

Helicopters
HAL Dhruv of the Indian Army

* Dhruv — Advanced Light Helicopter
* Light Combat Helicopter (under development)
* Light Observation Helicopter (under development)
* Indian Multi-role Helicopter (under development)

Engines

* GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri- Co-developed with GTRE(DRDO)(under development)
* PTAE-7- For indegeniously designed Lakshya PTA

Light trainer aircraft
Closeup of a HAL Kiran aircraft.

* HT-2
* HPT-32 Deepak
* HUL-26 Pushpak
* HAOP-27 Krishak
* HA-31 Basant
* HJT-16 Kiran — Mk1, Mk1A and Mk2
* HJT-36 Sitara — Intermediate Jet Trainer (under development)

Transport aircraft
Saras, developed by HAL and National Aerospace Laboratories.

* Saras — Co-developed with the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL)
* HAL Multirole Transport Aircraft — under joint-development with Ilyushin Design Bureau

Passenger Aircraft

* Indian Regional Jet (IRJ) of 70-100 seater capacity to be jointly developed with NAL.

Glider

* HAL G-1 — first original design produced by the company in 1941; only one built.
* Ardhra — training glider

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

* Lakshya PTA — Unmanned Aerial Vehicle

Licenced production

* Harlow PC-5 — first aircraft assembled by HAL
* Percival Prentice — 66-built by HAL
* Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 — FL, M, Bis and Bison upgrades variants
* Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27 — M variant
* SEPECAT Jaguar— IS, IB and IM variants
* AdourMk 811 for Jaguar
* Adour Mk 871 for BAE Hawk Mk 132
* HAL Ajeet — improved version of the Folland Gnat
* Aerospatiale SA 315B Lama — HAL Cheetah, Lancer, Cheetal Variants
* Aerospatiale SA 316B Alouette III — HAL Chetak, Chetan Variants
* Dornier Do 228 and Garret-5 engine
* HAL HS 748 Avro
* Sukhoi Su-30MKI
* BAe Systems Hawk Mk. 132 — scheduled production of 42 aircraft

soo whats your point..????

For 2 decades HAL was sitting idle, banging head on LCA !!
 
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