Targeting Indian Oil Refineries

[Cobra Arbok]

They weren't enough to stop Roses and Thunders from bombing your territory.

I repeat, Flankers, M-2000s, Bisons and anti-air defences couldn't stop a few Roses and Thunders from bombing your country and taking out your aircraft. You may have even accidentally shot down one of your own.



And the PAF blew the sh!t out of Onka harbour in response. And let's not forget about the humiliation at Dwarka that happened in 1965, your navy became too much of a b!tch to even participate after that mess.

Anyway, we don't need to use the navy or the air force, we can just send some missiles your way and let Durrani, Ghaznavi and Ghauri work their magic a 2nd time.





We took over 1/3 of it in 1947, I don't know how you can possibly consider that an Indian victory when you lost such a large chunk of it and the part that you do have is draining your military of so many resources.



We ended up capturing more land than India did and halted it's invasion in little over two weeks. There's no way you can spin that as some sort of victory without blatantly lying.



Taking Kashmir wasn't the objective. And we still operate Point 5353 to this very day, the region's dominating feature.



Outnumbered 15:1, and didn't even suffer 1% of the casualties the Indians/Bengalis did. But if you guys want to celebrate that, be my guest. The rest of the world remembers it as a Hindu holocaust.



It will only be trashed when India has the balls to invade Pakistan after burning so many of it's soldiers in Kashmir.

Until then, just sit down and continue to take the L.

Havn't we discussed that before? We did not lose an inch of territory as Kashmir was an independent princely state, India had no intentions of annexing it until Pakistan attacked it. And the part we have is valuable because it includes Ladakh, which gives us control of the Indus River.

In 65, we actually conquered more territory than you. I do not know from which source you are making that claim. Read what neutral sources have written about the war, such as the US Library of Congress, one of the World's most respected research organizations.

If you want to consider point 3355 a win(despite the fact it was not part of India before the war) Then we took point 5310 and 3770 among others and still hold them today. We also have the most important peak in the KArgil sector(Tiger Hill) and as a result have secured the Siachen Highway, which means your objective of the war failed.

Our navy have 1k km range anti ship cruise missiles.. This time we will destroy your whole navy with in your own waters.....u cant surprise us but we will... Must remember DGISPR statement

Please research the Size and capacity of the IN before making such ridiculous claims. Also keep in mind the PN is the weakest branch of the Paksitani Millitary, whereas the IN is the strongest. The opposite is true of the Air forces. And since you want to talk about cruise missiles, I am guessing you have heard of Brahmos?

 

[Hamza913]

and this thread was supposed to be primarily about Naval attacks

It doesn't need to be naval.

As for Dwarka, the Indian Navy in 65 was nothing like it is today.

And the Pakistani military is nothing like it was in 1971. Stop making false comparisons if you don't like it when others do the same.

after the PA was losing on the ground.

But you realize we have all that and much more

We have more nuclear missiles than India. And if you want to keep escalating, we can keep playing that game until it's MAD. So in a war, your options are limited to:

1. Backing off before we escalate things further.
2. Facing a nuclear holocaust.

Your call.

As well as missie defense capabilities.

We saw just how useful those systems are back in February. If they really worked so well, India wouldn't be p!ssing itself every-time Pakistan threatens to go nuclear.

 

[SQ8]

I would look at target selection for Pakistan in terms of warden’s rings.
Similar targeting tactics exist for Pakistan and will be pretty effective in conflict.

So far our Humint outpaces India by a large margin.... but only so far.

 

[Hamza913]

We did not lose an inch of territory as Kashmir was an independent princely state

That intended to join India, hence why the Maharaja tried to cleanse the region of all Muslims and eventually ended up signing off his land to India too. You lost land that would have been yours if it wasn't for the Pashtun tribals who invaded (I guess history truly does repeat itself).

In 65, we actually conquered more territory than you.

No you didn't, even your laad la Hussain Haqqani agrees that Pakistan captured more land. India blatantly lied about the amount of land it lost despite multiple pieces of evidence, such as the infamous denial of losing Munabao even when the Pakistani military provided pictures of troops in the city.

If you want to consider point 3355 a win

5353.

We also have the most important peak in the KArgil

No, Point 5353 is the region's dominating feature as per your own army. That's what makes the capture so significant.

despite the fact it was not part of India before the war

If that's what you want to believe.

 

[Placemat]

I think the best way is by regular strike from fighter jets. Cruise missile may not be the best way since this is not a moving target. That being said, during the 27 Feb attacks by Paf, the refineries were ready with counter measures by shutting down pipelines and ops.
If you think that a missile strike would mean that the entire locality would go up in a ball of flames , it's not true. There are checks and ways to shut of supplies and ensure safety. Not just that , there is resiliency built in to the system where opS can start quickly on cessation. In the whole while there will be a halt to operations and significant impact it will not cause ruin like a nuke strike

 

[Cobra Arbok]

It doesn't need to be naval.



And the Pakistani military is nothing like it was in 1971. Stop making false comparisons if you don't like it when others do the same.

We have more nuclear missiles than India. And if you want to keep escalating, we can keep playing that game until it's MAD. So in a war, your options are limited to:

1. Backing off before we escalate things further.
2. Facing a nuclear holocaust.

Your call.



We saw just how useful those systems are back in February. If they really worked so well, India wouldn't be p!ssing itself every-time Pakistan threatens to go nuclear.

Two can play

the pictures game

captured Pakistani tanks

The facts are that India did capture more territory than Pakistan. I am not saying this was a big victory for India, but it definitely was not a Pakistani victory either.

you are right. Pakistan's military has changed. This is not 1971 and 1965. But India's military has changed as well. The facts are that there are various factors on both sides that ensure there will never be a full scale war. In my initial posts I was just pointing out the infeasibility of Pakistan being able to target Indian oil refineries. Yet for some reason my posts have triggered a bunch of Pakistanis. Then again, I made the mistake of thinking this was a serious military thread, when it is actually another bash India thread.

And 5353 is not even in Kargil, its in Drass. And its so-called strategic advantage is negated by the fact that it is surrounded by peaks India captured from Pakistan. Which is why Pakistan failed its objective of cutting off the Siachen Highway.

 

[CodeforFood]

That intended to join India, hence why the Maharaja tried to cleanse the region of all Muslims and eventually ended up signing off his land to India too. You lost land that would have been yours if it wasn't for the Pashtun tribals who invaded (I guess history truly does repeat itself).



No you didn't, even your laad la Hussain Haqqani agrees that Pakistan captured more land. India blatantly lied about the amount of land it lost despite multiple pieces of evidence, such as the infamous denial of losing Munabao even when the Pakistani military provided pictures of troops in the city.



5353.



No, Point 5353 is the region's dominating feature as per your own army. That's what makes the capture so significant.



If that's what you want to believe.

I just logged in to see you have replied to all the bullcraap he is been uttering lol...

 

[Tom M]

Jamnagar, Essar, Gujarat, Panipat, Guru Gobind Singh Refineries account for about 50% of India's refining capacity and are close to Pakistan. What would be best ways to strike these facilities? Jamnagar and Essar are the closest and represent about 30% of India's oil refining capacity and are less then 130 mi from the Pakistani border. Cruise missiles? Drone Swarm? Stand off munitions? Rockets?

@CrazyZ guy. I guess all your refineries are safe and secure from any attacks, right ??

 

[Hamza913]

Two can play

My pictures didn't just show Pakistan achieving things, they also showed how Pakistan clearly did better than Indians are willing to admit. Your invasion was halted and reversed in little over two weeks. At one point, your army was even worried we would take Delhi:

Chapter 12 of Pradhan's book is titled "Retreat to Beas" in which there is detailed discussion of Indian COAS's proposal for the Indian Army to retreat behind Beas in the face of Pakistan's fierce counter-attacks after India's attempted incursion in Lahore. Pradhan argues in this chapter that during the 1965 war with Pakistan, Indian COAS General Chaudhuri feared that "a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance".

http://www.riazhaq.com/2013/09/inside-story-pakistan-army-at-gates-of.html

In my initial posts I was just pointing out the infeasibility of Pakistan being able to target Indian oil refineries.

It's not at all infeasible, Pakistan can quite easily hit India pretty hard. Your military knows this, hence why they're hesitant to escalate things.

I made the mistake of thinking this was a serious military thread, when it is actually another bash India thread.

It could have been serious, but you spat out your usual bullsh!t and then cried when others replied in kind.

And its so-called strategic advantage is negated

No it's not, your very own military says it's the region's dominating feature:

Former Indian Lt. Col. Kuldip Singh Ludra states, "it dominates, by observation and fire, the complete area on both sides of the Line of Control."

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0VJwAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

https://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020828/nation.htm#3

Unless you have anything factual to say that contradicts this, I think our discussion is over.

 

[war&peace]

You know...we just need few crazy people like you to be decison maker in Pakistan...Unfortunately IK is a sane person...
I hope your wish come true and Pakisttan do something like you are dreaming in this thread...

You labelling him crazy means he hit the spot

 

[Signalian]

Jamnagar, Essar, Gujarat, Panipat, Guru Gobind Singh Refineries account for about 50% of India's refining capacity and are close to Pakistan. What would be best ways to strike these facilities? Jamnagar and Essar are the closest and represent about 30% of India's oil refining capacity and are less then 130 mi from the Pakistani border. Cruise missiles? Drone Swarm? Stand off munitions? Rockets?

why do you need to take down oil refineries?

 

[Riz]

Please research the Size and capacity of the IN before making such ridiculous claims. Also keep in mind the PN is the weakest branch of the Paksitani Millitary, whereas the IN is the strongest. The opposite is true of the Air forces. And since you want to talk about cruise missiles, I am guessing you have heard of Brahmos?

You heard of CM-400??? Size doesn't matter we already proven on 27 feb

 

[Cobra Arbok]

My pictures didn't just show Pakistan achieving things, they also showed how Pakistan clearly did better than Indians are willing to admit. Your invasion was halted and reversed in little over two weeks. At one point, your army was even worried we would take Delhi:

Chapter 12 of Pradhan's book is titled "Retreat to Beas" in which there is detailed discussion of Indian COAS's proposal for the Indian Army to retreat behind Beas in the face of Pakistan's fierce counter-attacks after India's attempted incursion in Lahore. Pradhan argues in this chapter that during the 1965 war with Pakistan, Indian COAS General Chaudhuri feared that "a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance".

http://www.riazhaq.com/2013/09/inside-story-pakistan-army-at-gates-of.html



It's not at all infeasible, Pakistan can quite easily hit India pretty hard. Your military knows this, hence why they're hesitant to escalate things.



It could have been serious, but you spat out your usual bullsh!t and then cried when others replied in kind.



No it's not, your very own military says it's the region's dominating feature:

Former Indian Lt. Col. Kuldip Singh Ludra states, "it dominates, by observation and fire, the complete area on both sides of the Line of Control."

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0VJwAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

https://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020828/nation.htm#3

Unless you have anything factual to say that contradicts this, I think our discussion is over.

If you actually researched 1965, you would know the purpose of invading Lahore was not actually capturing it. Lahore was too well-defended, and the Indian Army did not have the capability to capture it. Even now it does not. The reason the IA launched the offensive in Lahore district was to divert Pakistani troops from Kashmir. It worked, and the IA was able to capture Haji Pir Pass in AJK, cutting off Pakistan from Kashmir. Pakistan launched a counter offensive against India to capture enough Indian territory to force India to cede its gains in Kashmir and Punjab, but was only able to capture small amounts of territory in Rajasthan and the Rann of Kutch. The Pakistani invasion of Khem Karan resulted in a failure as Pakistan was driven back across the International Border at the BAttle of Asal Uttar.

Here is what historian John Keay had to say about the war:
"The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India's Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate"

He also wrote "The Pakistani thrust into Kashmir was quickly blunted, then outflanked by an Indian counter-strike further south. In fact Indian tanks had reached the outer suburbs of Lahore when a ceasefire came into effect"

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...fxzTOou8#v=onepage&q=India: a history&f=false

Here is what historian Devin Hagerty wrote in his book South Asia in World Politics
"The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat."

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...nepage&q=South Asia in world politics&f=false
These are only a few of the many works written on the topic, most arriving to the same conclusion.

 

[TheNoob]

Stuxnet is a weapon without being a weapon. Or any other ransomware could do the job.

oh yeah, do that thing with some nationals entire database and have them pay their entire reserve to you. lol

 

[Hamza913]

If you actually researched 1965, you would know the purpose of invading Lahore was not actually capturing it.

Here is what historian

Regardless, Pakistan captured more land and halted India's invasion in little over two weeks. Nothing you say will change that.