Taimur: Pakistan's ICBM?

[The Deterrent]

We got the tech from them, the know how and assistance, but after that, we are now doing our own research and making our own missiles. Examples are Babur, Ra'ad or you can even check out the earlier Shaheen II and current Shaheen II missiles, which can clearly tell that we are making our own missiles based on our research and are not exact copies of Chinese tech or given by the Chinese.

Brother,thats exactly what I'm trying to say....(may be I'm poor at the selection of words).....

I haven't mentioned anywhere that Pakistan merely copied Chinese systems...we improve them...

To copy another thing is not a great job,but to improve its qualities is the best thing...thats what we do as I have mentioned...we get few delicate parts,manufacture most of are own,utilize experience of other countries and bring out a successful weapon.....

This is the main reason why 90% of our missile tests do not fail...

Babur was reverse engineered from Tomahawk...and after repeated failures it was a success...Ra'ad is the smaller aerial version of Babur without booster motor and low-drag producing avionics...

 

[The Deterrent]

Here compare these two Shaeen II missiles and see the difference yourself.

Saw any difference ?? Does that not tell you that we are doing our own research and making missiles as we deem fit after we got the initial know how about missiles from the Chinese ??? Hope you are not that blind as our neighbors are.

The missiles at display on 23rd March are dummies...I'm just clarifying...

 

[The Deterrent]

I hope the above examples as well as the Babur and Ra'ad CMs are more then enough to tell you and shut the mouths of some others that we are making our own missiles, through our own research, after having gotten the tech and know how from the Chinese.

Still if someone has an issue, God help him or should i say gods help them to understand as hatred is something which makes you not see the reality.

Sir,"own" research takes a lot of time...which we didn't have.....but the missiles are our very own.....

And thank you for the good wishes for me...

 

[The Deterrent]

Here let me give you another example, look at the earlier Shaheen 1 missile and compared it to the latest picture from the latest test of Shaheen 1 missile, look at the top of the missile, the warhead section and hopefully you can see the difference between the shapes.

Earlier Shaheen 1:

And the latest pic of the Shaheen 1 (enlarge to see it clearly):

Thank you for that....I hadn't noticed it...

 

[unicorn148]

Becoz we are extremely short of finances and can't give any attention to the space related programs. Primary concern is to have a nuke delivery system in place and make it as much better as we can.

We don't make satellites and nor have we the potential to launch satellites of others in such tight & already dominated market, and i can assure you, we would not have gotten any business too from other countries as there is no selling skills with us and the strategic value with others.

The day, we start having enough money, you will see a space program too, but our planners lack the vision and neglected the space program, evident from the number of satellites we have leaving aside having any launching capability.

Take the example of Britain, do they have their own ballistic missiles even though they have the infrastructure to develop had they wanted, or look at their own space launching capability or the past endeavors in this field. Read up about the British and may be you can have an idea that even if you can do something, its not feasible or due to certain reasons you just can't jump everywhere.

By the way, good attempt at a cheap shot, but you need a better understanding how such strategic decisions are done.

Let me help you, read about the British Black Arrow program, may be you get an understanding.

You can just say lack of funds because at this time Pakistan doesnt require a ICBM but they are going after it and spending a lot in it. If these funds are utilized by SUPARCO they might have at least built a SLV by now
Briton is a member of ESA so they do not require a separate space program

 

[khurasaan1]

We haven't tested it yet...

I guess he mean cold test... ..not hot test..

 

[Parashuram1]

And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?

 

[Sinnerman108]

And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?

May be, may be not ...

Lets put it this way .. it is best to have the capability once you're on a roll ....

As for 7000 km thing .. lets say we like to play ransom

 

[The Deterrent]

And what would be the point of increasing the range of your missiles when your regional adversary (the Indians) is already covered with your current arsenal? Do you have any adversary 7,000 Km away?

That is my point too.....therefore we can conclude that there is nothing as a a Pakistani ICBM (taimur/tipu) under development...you are absolutely right...

 

[The Deterrent]

I guess he mean cold test... ..not hot test..

What do you mean?...cold test of what?

 

[Screambowl]

Good rubbish and nonsense to cover up the blunders, but thanks for the effort, we already know what fails when and how many times. Keep the nonsense BS to Indian audience to satisfy the egos.

And i believe we are not discussing about who is being how much centric about whom. We all know the answer to that.

There is no need to shy or hide any Blunder. I said they fail because they are experimental Missile, no one is denying the fact that they fail after all we have crossed the threshold. How many experimental missiles did Pakistan launch?? Don't tell me you don't have money to do experiments now.

Just Like Iran is doing experiments sending launch vehicles building satellites to develop an ICBM or IRBM or North Korea with T-1. In fact they have launched their satellite. Things work in a system.

Well i am not sure that what you meant by the above two paras, but if am right you meant to say that for ICBM you need to know the know how of warhead separation from the main body of the missile, as either in ICBM or IRBM there is reentry of warhead after separation from the main body, and that know how can be used in making SLV, for separation of satellites.

If am correct with what you meant, then let me notify you, that Pakistan does know the know how of warhead separation and uses warhead separation as well as post separation correction system in its warheads, thus if it wants, it can easily make an IRBM or ICBM as it has no problems in warhead separation or RV sections of missiles and when & if Pakistan wants to go for SLV, it can easily do that, provided we have the money to research and carry on such expensive program, but its hard for us to spare money for such things right now.

That's what I am saying. Every country is going through a system of development. Except you! I just do not understand. Pakistan never had a SLV how did they manage to compact a Missile without doing experiments on prototypes, without throwing dummies into the orbit. Without carrying out experiments with Mass to Range to Stability of the warhead or RV. you theoretically developed one of the best missiles on papers gave them structure and launched it. When you did not have money for SLV and experiements and development of this industry, how you supposed to have a missile program at all.
wow!

 

[TaimiKhan]

There is no need to shy or hide any Blunder. I said they fail because they are experimental Missile, no one is denying the fact that they fail after all we have crossed the threshold. How many experimental missiles did Pakistan launch?? Don't tell me you don't have money to do experiments now.

Hadn't we any money, you would not have been seeing the different versions of the missiles coming out after modification done to them. We don't like to reinvent the wheel, nor are our ambitions to target far flung areas for now, thus we are not going for super duper missiles, for now. We have been doing tests and we even had failures, but since our defence establishment is tight lipped thus we don't know much about their failure rate, but getting the tech from others was the main reason to have reliable tech with us as we could not afford the testing and prototypes thingy due to cost factor.

That's what I am saying. Every country is going through a system of development. Except you! I just do not understand. Pakistan never had a SLV how did they manage to compact a Missile without doing experiments on prototypes, without throwing dummies into the orbit. Without carrying out experiments with Mass to Range to Stability of the warhead or RV. you theoretically developed one of the best missiles on papers gave them structure and launched it. When you did not have money for SLV and experiements and development of this industry, how you supposed to have a missile program at all.
wow!

As said before, our missile program is a joint venture, we got tech and assistance from the Chinese, thus its clear that they helped us out in lot of stuff with respect to missiles and their tech and after what we learned from them, we started to put it in our developed platforms. For making ballistic missiles, you don't need to make an SLV first. Ballistic missiles with separating warheads is more easier tech compared to launching satellites, so am still at loss of words to fully understand what is your point from the above para.

Keep may be you could next time in better words explain your point.

By the way, did Ballistic missiles came first or SLVs ?? Query it, it may give you an idea to what you are saying.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimi ....

Ghussa nahi karte ....

Yaar, her cheez ki aik intehaaa hoti hai.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Brother,thats exactly what I'm trying to say....(may be I'm poor at the selection of words).....

I haven't mentioned anywhere that Pakistan merely copied Chinese systems...we improve them...

To copy another thing is not a great job,but to improve its qualities is the best thing...thats what we do as I have mentioned...we get few delicate parts,manufacture most of are own,utilize experience of other countries and bring out a successful weapon.....

This is the main reason why 90% of our missile tests do not fail...

Babur was reverse engineered from Tomahawk...and after repeated failures it was a success...Ra'ad is the smaller aerial version of Babur without booster motor and low-drag producing avionics...

Reinventing the wheel is stupidity.

Plus, you seriously need to look at Babur & Ra'ad designs and their specifications, may be it can give you an idea that both are different designs with different specifications.

Both missiles origin is also different, babur may have gotten influenced by Tomahawk, but Ra'ad is from something else.

 

[Screambowl]

Hadn't we any money, you would not have been seeing the different versions of the missiles coming out after modification done to them. We don't like to reinvent the wheel, nor are our ambitions to target far flung areas for now, thus we are not going for super duper missiles, for now. We have been doing tests and we even had failures, but since our defence establishment is tight lipped thus we don't know much about their failure rate, but getting the tech from others was the main reason to have reliable tech with us as we could not afford the testing and prototypes thingy due to cost factor.







As said before, our missile program is a joint venture, we got tech and assistance from the Chinese, thus its clear that they helped us out in lot of stuff with respect to missiles and their tech and after what we learned from them, we started to put it in our developed platforms. For making ballistic missiles, you don't need to make an SLV first. Ballistic missiles with separating warheads is more easier tech compared to launching satellites, so am still at loss of words to fully understand what is your point from the above para.

Keep may be you could next time in better words explain your point.

my only point is,how come Pakistan has ability to make an RV put it in an orbit and guide it during re-entry phase without actually knowing the ballistics. Because we never heard from you, developing your own rocket launching it with a dummy projectile or some related programs. How come you achieved so sophisticated technology without carrying out any experiments on your own. How come you had a knowledge of stage separation or RV separation and sub-orbitals and orbital altitudes with CEP of just 30 meters with such a compact rocket assembly.

By the way, did Ballistic missiles came first or SLVs ?? Query it, it may give you an idea to what you are saying.

if your are talking about a stage separation ballistic missiles with sub-orbital trajectory and RV then SLV's came first.