T90 Compared with Al Khalid

[acetophenol]

I am now posting some of the equipments in Indian T-90 tanks, made by BEL

^^^^DIGITAL INTERCOM SYSTEM

^^^^ADVANCED LAND NAVIGATION SYSTEM (ALNS)

^^^WEAPON STABILISER SYSTEM FOR T-90S TANK

->There are videos of Indian T-90 with RCWS,I am not sure how many units are equipped with RCWs or their origin. However there are RCWS of Indian origin.

^^^DRDO made



None of the Indian T-90 tanks have an APS, as far as I know.

@Dazzler and others : I've posted what I know about Indian T-90s, if you need sources or other infos, please feel free to ask.

 

[Dazzler]

Darn please educate us about the AORAK ERA... Once again... Thanks!





Bhai ji you got a source for that??

is Aorak needed when the alkhalid can do this without it? no penetration beyond the first layer...

its all well known and nothign signifcant, even type-85, UD and alkhalid have catherine thermal imagers, the ammo part is the funniest sp leave it there.

 

[acetophenol]

Bhai ji you got a source for that??

Ofcourse bhai, do you think I'll dare post something in volatile thread like this without sources?

BDL gets Rs 3,000 cr contract for anti-tank Invar missiles - Firstpost

Invar is made by Indian firm BDL, there has been issues with ToT and all at the first. Invar now features in their product lists as well.

 

[Heinz Guderian]

alright dont start a rumor mill guys, get a ew things straight...

To date, indian t-90s are NOT fitted with any active protection systems, if anyone has a proof, bring it or rather shut up. AGain, indian t-90s have no battle management system and most of them even lack an ECS or AC for short

Their FCS is the same as the standard 1A45T used in all export model t-90s to date and there is little to no improvements in that department. I have been hearing they are being upgraded since 2004 at least, till today.

You know even T-72 is being upgraded with Arjun Mk2 turret, FCS and GCS. But I know you know very little about Indian tanks, and all are without any BMS.

BTW, ever you thought why Indian Army procuring HAL Rudra and LCH for its armored corps in large number, and actually its a very large number. Think about it.

 

[Seaman]

We dont need tanks for example "battle of longewala"

 

[desimorty]

We use and produce Invar ATGMs for use from our T-90

Do you have a source? It would be helpful

As for T-90 being heavier than AK.. Hence having a better armour Seriously ?

AK = 48 ton

T-90s = 46 ton

I was under the impression the T-90 is heavier but still consisting of power pack size i'd think the T-90 is packing more frontal protection. Still there is no major difference in armor protection other than an over glorified ERA from Russia which has yet to be field tested.

Because we can ! Because it goes more punch .. You would do too .. if you coup actually even make better rounds ..

Apart from DU we also use Tungsten .. !
Because we can and because we have developed them !

See thats interesting. DU rounds leave radiation and have other side effects but still question is why? AK and T-90 can be mission killed for the most part with HEAT rounds or well placed HESH and these rounds are usefull against fortifications and do not rely on range. Target doesn't have to be close. And then development of 2 types of armour piercing ammo is another question. Because we can is not answer to cash strapped civilian government...but then again I may have answered my own question.

Also don't you "think" systems like FCS,gunner sights,commander Sights,Hunter killer etc are much more important ?

Yea good, FCS and decent thermal imagers are important as well as training to use these. Hunter Killer is over rated. What it does is just take over the job of gunner and I'd imagine such a system is not necessary in all situations. Also all these things you've mentioned are the easiest things to change in tanks and they keep evolving as well which is why I don't bother with them. They are revolutionary but the technology is pretty widely disbursed so nothing bleeding edge.

It is based on the Type-90 series .. The same series which gave birth to chinese Type-98 and Type-99!

We already produced Type-90IIAP under license (although we modified it according to our needs.. Instead we started our own program .. Type-59 has nothing on AK.. They don't share a single similarity.

The gun on AK itself is based on the Ukranian KBA-3 ..

Really, repeat that bull shite agian because The Type 90 is based on 88 85 models whom are also based on Type 59 and so forth and the orginal arguement was to clarify the similarity between AK and T-72 which they have including size.

Check out the pic above!

As for "superior" ERA.: Ukranian ERA is better than the K-5s everybody would agree on that .. Meanwhile our AORAK is based on Knife ERA .. We surely took help from the Ukranians on this one.

Ah see. I wouldn't disagree but I wouldn't agree either. ERA is bullsh!te blocks. It works but its not radically different from other forms. However placement of ERA blocks seems to be more important to its use.

Ok boss!

You ever drive a pick up?

Peotective suites and jammers ? AK also employs them (although our are indigenous - produce by Pakistani companies)
Which such suite does indian army use? A source would be nice.

I'd like a source because that seems like bullsh!te again why again? well Buraq UAC recently was said to be of Pakistan design and indegnious and so forth, turns out it was bought off the shelf from China. Also is there other pictures of this APS actually in use or on tanks other than a floor model? And why is this tank missing ERA?
And i'm not going to look for source for you its BR information. There is no APS on Indian T-90s because of 2 reasons, 1 its disfunctional the moment the tank takes the first hit because its out in the open. I'd imagine your tank would have the same problem. 2. The swedish / southafrican system provides the same kill methods for the most part. Automated gernade launches, awarenesses etc... but the soft kill wia gernade launchers is the only tried method.

Nice isn't it? IEDs,multiple RR and RPG shots and the crew still survives to tell the tale !.. No penetration of the turret or hull.. Even that baby is rolling with a 125mm,Thetis system and other goodies !

CREW survived? I'd like a source.

Which one and a link .. Thanks.

For a tank nut i'm suprised you don't know. Leave it be. Its tank and it has a cost effective laser warning system in place. try googling south africa sweden laser warning system or something.

I believe (could be wrong) the chinese Refleck copy is called red sparrow .. But Kombat ATGM is the real deal for AK .. Aswell as our UD's whih themselves are on par with the T-84s.. Thank to russian sanctions and the Ukranian loyality.

Copy? DO you really think they copied or bought license production? If they did, they aint gonna sell to you unless Russia gets in on it.

alright dont start a rumor mill guys, get a ew things straight...

To date, indian t-90s are NOT fitted with any active protection systems, if anyone has a proof, bring it or rather shut up. AGain, indian t-90s have no battle management system and most of them even lack an ECS or AC for short

Their FCS is the same as the standard 1A45T used in all export model t-90s to date and there is little to no improvements in that department. I have been hearing they are being upgraded since 2004 at least, till today.

As far is I know there are open bids underway to increase survivability of the t-90s present and future. Which is why i'd rather not compare such bling since they are accessories to 40 odd tons. Not sure whats been done and not done, but the transparency is there.

 

[HariPrasad]

@Dazzler asked me to open this thread.


Edit some moderator thought it would be funny to change the title from T-90 to Arjun.

He wanted me to open a thread about the T-90SM/T-90A vs Al-Khalid because he made many claims but refused to answer them in the very thread he made the comments in. Or to be blunt he was pounding his chest and then backed out, then told me to open a new thread.


Going back weeks now Dazzler claims he knows the classified armor of the T-90, yet after asking him a dozen times or so to reveal this armor he refuses.

Another claim is that Russian battle field management is garbage and so is the fire control system on the T-90 yet when it comes to providing hard facts and details he has no answer. And what T-90 did you get to sit in again? Where was this again? Still have no answered that either.



Lets see how shitty the T-90s fire control system is:





Old article with broken link:

During one of the displays, T-90 struck 7 targets in 54 seconds. All were at the distance between 1500-2500m and the tank was on the move at 25km/h. While returning to position, the layer gave the control to the commander who used the gunner mode to fire to the rear of the vehicle and hit 4 more targets.



during the official trials of T-90, all of the ammunitions were fired by young conscripts who just finished training. All of the rounds – 24 of them, hit targets at a distance of 4-5km.


Indian crews quickly mastered the T-90S, they also did not have problems with the fire control and thermo-vision systems. Just after several training sessions Lt. Kapur of the Indian army acted as layer who accurately fired on to the targets at 2500-3000m. Officers from one of the panzer corps needed 20 minutes to familiarize with T-90S and successfully complete the task of destroying 4 targets at night from a distance of 3100m at an ambient temperature of 47°C.

hummmmm

Like MKi is inferior to JF 17.
I do not know ahy Pakistan buy T 80 than?

 

[desimorty]

You know even T-72 is being upgraded with Arjun Mk2 turret, FCS and GCS. But I know you know very little about Indian tanks, and all are without any BMS.

BTW, ever you thought why Indian Army procuring HAL Rudra and LCH for its armored corps in large number, and actually its a very large number. Think about it.

No there not. T-72 is being kept as it is with ERA upgrades and FCS, and when thats done, they'll go in cold storage for war time reserves. They T-72 doesn't require significant upgrades, its already a cost effective tank.

Orginal thread was about the armour and FCS between the 2 tanks T-90 and AK. I'm not going to dwell into differences that are slight but will point out that the T-90 is a lot more cost effective of tank compared to AK. T-90 has familiarity with the T-72 design and has backbones in Russian supplied parts.
If I had to choose a tank knowing theres not much difference in the 2, i'd PICK the T-90 simply out of support. The T-90 offers more development and support long term as its more widely used. If you spent enough money on a T-90 you could upgrade to beat the snote out of Challenger or give it good run for its money but thats not economical. Point being T-90 is based on the orginal idea from the Red Army. Its an idea thats still being worked on. Its a good idea and its something that Norinco tried to copy their own way. The large scale export success of the T-90 should speak for its self.

 

[acetophenol]

^^^^^^Indian ACs in T-90s and BMPs

^^^^From Arjun though

 

[SipahSalar]

A Pakistani in a T-34 is better than 10 Indians in Abrams.
Fact.

 

[desimorty]

We dont need tanks for example "battle of longewala"

Exactly but not entirely true. We don't need the tanks to be the best when they'll out number the enemy plus they need to spread out to fight more than just tanks, hence numbers are needed. Imagine India invades Pakistan, half of Indias tanks get destroyed and infantry will be slaughtered with out tanks to back them against enemy infantry. And the Pakistani armoured columns? Well they'll have to fight to survive against an enemy that controls the air and has considerable artillery support meaning they'll have to split up and scatter unless they want to become targets.

A Pakistani in a T-34 is better than 10 Indians in Abrams.
Fact.

Is that what Pakistan used to loose all 3 and half wars with India?

APS system being produced in India
SAAB and Wipro join forces for LEDS in India | defenceWeb
Seems it'll offer hard kill even against RPG which is really needed.

 

[HariPrasad]

Now a days everthing of Pakistan is No1. Pakistan special forces are No 1 so as ISI. Islamabad is second most beautiful capital. Pakistani men and woman are sexiest. Pakistani tanks can beat Russian tank. An unprecedented progress seem to have been made by Pakistan.

A Pakistani in a T-34 is better than 10 Indians in Abrams.
Fact.

Hummmm 71 war was made on same assumption. One Pakistani will beat 10 Hindus.

 

[Dazzler]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

India has two variants of the T-90 -> T-90S and T-90M "Bheeshma"

Since 2001, 310 T-90S tanks were supplied by Russia, about half of which were partially or completely assembled in India.

T-90S tanks are equipped with 1000hp engines and weighs 46.5T. It can fire FSAPDS and ATGMs along with other types.

T-90S tanks for India withstood direct hits from M829A2/KEW-A2 APFSDS at 250M without the ERAs in demonstrations

T-90M "Bheeshma" is the later variant of T-90 that India made with help of Russia and France.

^^^OFB built COMMANDER SIGHT TKN-4S FOR T90 S

^^^OFB built DRIVER'S SIGHT PASSIVE FOR T-90 S

^^^OFB built THERMAL SIGHT TI-ESSA FOR T-90S

^^^OFB built GUNNER SIGHT IG46 FOR T-90

T-90M "Bheeshma" features several improvements over the T-90S, and many of these improvements have been later adopted into the T-90S already in services, hence the shares designation.

T-90Ms are being produced in India, at HVF Chennai, with the first Indian made batch being inducted on 2009

T-90Ms has Kaktus K-6 ERA on hull and Kontact-5 ERA along with Semi-active baffle plates and ceramic layers with high tensile proprieties of the T-90 base armour and advanced armour composition for the Indian variants.

Gosh, these are all RUSSIAN systems being licensed manufactured in India, stop labeling them as "OFB PRODUCED INDIAN stuff" which it is not. And, there is nothing significant about this stuff really as Peleng ESSA sights contain catherine thermal imager imported from France.

Lastly, all of these systems are also operational on standard t-90S export model mate. Even ukraine makes many of these systems with improvements for mbts and upgrade packages.

Welcome to westan - westan-group.com

T-90S - UralVagonZavod - Special products

 

[HRM YANG]

Now a days everthing of Pakistan is No1. Pakistan special forces are No 1 so as ISI. Islamabad is second most beautiful capital. Pakistani men and woman are sexiest. Pakistani tanks can beat Russian tank. An unprecedented progress seem to have been made by Pakistan.




Hummmm 71 war was made on same assumption. One Pakistani will beat 10 Hindus.

They will, my friend, they will.

 

[acetophenol]

Gosh, these are all RUSSIAN systems being licensed manufactured in India, stop labeling them as "OFB PRODUCED INDIAN stuff" which it is not. And, there is nothing significant about this stuff really as Peleng ESSA sights contain catherine thermal imager imported from France.

Lastly, all of these systems are also operational on standard t-90S export model mate. Even ukraine makes many of these systems with improvements for mbts and upgrade packages.

Welcome to westan - westan-group.com

T-90S - UralVagonZavod - Special products

I never claimed that these were Indian made,i said clearly that those equipments were part of the first T-90S models supplied by Russia. Ive also posted some of the newer systems used in the later variants of T-90 in Indian service.