T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[Safriz]

Oh, ok! I dont insist HQ-9 is superior. I think HQ-9 is superior? Is that ok?



How do you leave out Aster 30 if you think ToT is the main problem? Best of all Aster 30 is also a Naval based VLS which shall have easy intergration into Turkish existing naval program.

Yes Aster-30 was also offered as Joint/Co-Production to Turkey by MBDA as stated here

But this latest news about HQ-9 means that Astra-30 has been rejected....
It is a Hot launch in VLS while HQ-9 isnt and that can be a contributing factor including many others such as costs and things i wont and don't know.

My patience has really been tested, while I tried to read through all the comments, but I end up with same conclusion.

1. People assume alot
2. People make up fairy tales inside their head
3. People insult each other even more than the two above mentioned

Turkey has been using western arms for a long time, changing all that would set us back decades. I believe that the choice of HQ-9 is interesting and like Cabatli said, it's not without a purpose. But the choice is not based on how good HQ-9 is. It's been said before and I'll repeat it for people who doesn't know, The turkish government values TOT more than the actual products, because there is a belief in Turkey that with knowledge, dedication and time, we can surpass what we've been offered. Possibly even compete globally with our products.

Atawolf pointed out about T-129 and how it was modified to suit our needs, so I think it's worth considering that he might not be wrong. We did buy a stand alone system after all.

Politically it's going to be interesting. The trouble in Syria, and possible missile attack on Turkey would be faced with the PAC-3 and HQ-9 system, and if one of them fails it's going to be a massive blow to either PAC-3 or HQ-9. HQ-9 is even more exposed because it'll be a Chinese/US system that failed to protect Turkey against missile attack.

Of course that's only if we're attacked, but think about it. I know our Pakistani brothers are quite fond of the Chinese because of the relations they have (since india has the US), but what would Pakistan think if the HQ-9 failed.

I think people should stop coming up with their speculations and stick to the facts. Failing that, just wait and see what's going to happen, it's quite interesting :)

This is an open discussion..Dont crash the party with your angry comments plz...But then this is very typical of some Turks on this forum.

 

[T-123456]

Yes Aster-30 was also offered as Joint/Co-Production to Turkey by MBDA as stated here

But this latest news about HQ-9 means that Astra-30 has been rejected....
It is a Hot launch in VLS while HQ-9 isnt and that can be a contributing factor including many others such as costs and things i wont and don't know.



This is an open discussion..Dont crash the party with your angry comments plz...But then this is very typical of some Turks on this forum.

Try to read his post again,he meant all people so relax.

 

[hacksquat]

I would like to share my 2 cents if I might. This might be a long one

About half of turkish radars belong to NATO,if they don't want to integrate the system,they won't.I won't even talk about NATO satellite system,you'd have to creeate one of your own to work with the chinese system.

Well, thats not really how NATO works. The only NATO radars in Turkey are with the temporary patriot batteries and the X-band AN/TPY-2 radar in Kurecik. You can rest assured that the rest are completely operated by Turkish Armed Forces and connected solely to our network and no one else. Now you might argue that the "big picture" (in the main C&C center in Ankara), which is the correlation of ALL the radar data, is being shared with NATO and you might be right. But it still has nothing to do with our ability to integrate chinese missiles into our own C4I infrastructure. We have an independant command and control structure with our own software developed by Havelsan of Turkey.

I would also like to add that the system we are offered by our Chinese friends is at the "lower end" (in terms of range) of the long range missile defence systems. We were not offered THAAD, S-400 nor HQ-19 which could intercept MRBMs and could use the early warning satellites. But to intercept SRBMs land based radars are more than enough and we do not need NATO's early warning satellites for that.

I think there is a confusion between Turkey's own missile defences and NATO's integrated missile shield. Since the very first day of the NATO shield talk our politicians as well as the military brass insisted Turkey will keep its independant abilities to defend itself. Not only that but NATO's missile defences does NOT cover southeast Turkey so assuming otherwise would be foolish.

Chinese engineer secretly inspecting those NATO system in Turkey can help to overcome those problem.

That I am afraid will not happen. AFAIK the closest china can get is check out our AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel radars or our outdated ancient nike hercules junk since we don't have a proper modern air defence network in place

Too bad that Russians not offered S400,but I understand them,Americans would immediately put a paw on best defence system in world.
So HQ9 is good alternetive way for Turkey if S400 is not in the case!But on the other hand,why Turks dont purchase American products?If I were a Turk i will always purchase NATO products(US especially)becouse US is probably most important Turkish ally,so HQ9 even S400 not that important like US allience.
@Beast Yes Turkey is crucial becouse they are most powerful country in the Muslim world.With Turkish allience,US will have 24/7 control over Balkan and Middle East.
Where future lies?Can you answer me please.

Two main resons that pop in my mind. TAF 100% relies on US aircraft and a little independance in our AD network can go a long way. And our "historical enemy" Greece operates both S-300 and Patriots. Also given their European status in a potential conflict I am sure SAMP/T system would be compromised in no time. The other factor as mentioned numerious time could be the unprecedented ToT our Chinese friends offered

I think Cabatli's post hits the nail on the model we are going to follow:

-Either re-develop Chinese FD-2000 with domestic inputs, a Kasirga like project model, and produce "national" missile batteries in home and for export markets

-or commence another project simultaneously (Hurkus like project model) to develop a "national more advanced" SAM thanks to Chinese co-production and tech transfer experience gained form FD-2000 program.

 

[Herstory]

What's wrong with most of Chinese posters here?
Seriously, you guys act very rude and childish.

Chinese people in my country are mostly very humble.

On topic, congrats for both Turkey and China.

 

[Safriz]

Plus Aster and other western systems ToT was marginal.It was more of a "Bolt on" western system on top of a Turkish system..
Western companies did not give the degree of ToT Turkey wanted..
For example GENESIS system was married to a Raytheon's Fire control system with Turks Manufacturing GENESIS and Raytheon manufacturing Fire control and bolting them together..thats not a ToT..

This ws mentioned in a Janes article

 

[flamer84]

Plus Aster and other western systems ToT was marginal.It was more of a "Bolt on" western system on top of a Turkish system..
Western companies did not give the degree of ToT Turkey wanted..
For example GENESIS system was married to a Raytheon's Fire control system with Turks Manufacturing GENESIS and Raytheon manufacturing Fire control and bolting them together..thats not a ToT..

This ws mentioned in a Janes article

Yes,that is why was trying to say earlier,full Tot isn't always full Tot.
@hacksquat and other turkish members-any chance of some information regarding the parameters of the systems offered during turkish testing transpiring to the public opinion ? Like in the swiss tender for fighter jets i mean.

 

[madmusti]

We Get the Tech that we need for an Start for an own Air Defense System !

That was the Critical Point ,to say something other is only Trolling here !

 

[hacksquat]

Yes,that is why was trying to say earlier,full Tot isn't always full Tot.
@hacksquat and other turkish members-any chance of some information regarding the parameters of the systems offered during turkish testing transpiring to the public opinion ? Like in the swiss tender for fighter jets i mean.

AFAIK there is zero information released to public on how the system was chosen and even what the systems are. We don't even know how many and what the project model will be. I think It was last year the requirements changed to allow us greater independance but Americans and Russians didn't really warm up to the idea. American's tried to sweeten the deal by offering us great offsets (more than 1 billion $$) but I guess being self sufficient + the great initial price were more appealing.

 

[eddieInUK]

Turkey to buy $4bn air defence system from China - FT.com

 

[kalu_miah]

Great news, all Muslim nations should improve their ties with China.

 

[Oublious]

In the end the Turkish missile wil supperier then the Chinees i think. It wil be redesigned with Turkish configurations.

 

[al-Hasani]

Great news, all Muslim nations should improve their ties with China.

Indeed bro. China also has ancient ties with Islam, Muslims and the Middle East and other Muslim areas. I for instance know that Arabs and other Semitic people and Chinese people traded with each other and came into contact well before the appearance of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Arab_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

‫

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/258449-chinese-arab-people.html

Also China is a world power and although there is already cultural, economic, military, political etc. ties we need to expand them way more to counter Western influence which is not always good for the region.

I have always had a soft spot for China and wish to see much bigger cooperation on all fields that can benefit both parties.

China already has a significant presence in South East Asia (Indonesia, Malaysia etc.) and those states are Muslim and Indonesia is even the most populous Muslim country. China has never had problems with Muslim states even when they were ruled by conservative communists.

Pakistan already has excellent relations with China. They showed the light.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Great news, all Muslim nations should improve their ties with China.

Turkey is a secular state :/

But I do like to see KSA developing stronger ties with the PRC.

 

[al-Hasani]

Turkey is a secular state :/

Bro you can be Muslim and secular at the same time. By far most Turks are Muslims.

 

[Neptune]

Bro you can be Muslim and secular at the same time. By far most Turks are Muslims.

yeah. %30-35 of Turkey's muslim population are practisers. Thank to "erdogan the magnificant", he'll bring seriat one day. He is a tall idiot...