T-129 helis for P.A confirmed? PM Pakistan

[Irfan Baloch]

I know i know you can put all sorts of jammers and electronic stuff in to protect the chopper, but then that just raises the cost and the level of tech to that of a fighter.

I think, budgets should be spend more on UAVs and SMART missiles, rather than choppers.


Just my 2 cents.

you got it all wrong sir.. same argument can be then used for tanks too.. why have tanks then.. they are sitting ducks and cant outrun anything except Rana Sanahullah...

going even further... one would argue why have army? why not only airforce then?

the point is... the helecopters, both attack and transport fill up a very special and important niche in the Armed forces structure.

they are readily available as compared to the aircrafts. they are more flexible can easily manage terrain can conceal themselves...

go watch some helecopter videos in action and you will understand why they are needed

 

[Super Falcon]

for last 3 yaers we are still thinking about T 129 but when do they come in PA colours

 

[skybolt]

 

[skybolt]

 

[skybolt]

 

[skybolt]

---------- Post added at 12:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

 

[skybolt]

UMTAS

UMTAS (Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi) is a long range air-to-surface anti-tank missile developed by Turkish armor and missile manufacturer Roketsan

Background
UMTAS program was initiated in 2005 by Turkey's Undersecretariat for Defence Industries (SSM), specifically to provide T-129 ATAK combat helicopters with an indigenous guided missile. Following successful completion of Phase-1 under the Design Contract dated 29 September 2005 with Roketsan, Phase-2 Development Contract was signed between SSM and Roketsan on 31 July 2008. The project is being carried out in accordance with the Phase-2 contract.

Description
UMTAS missile features "fire and forget" and "fire and update" infrared guidance with a tandem anti-armor warhead. It is capable of engaging targets at 8 kilometers.

LRAT, which is also adaptable to land platforms, has the following capabilities:
-Lock-on before and after launch
-Can be used in day or night and in adverse weather conditions
-Tandem warhead, effective against reactive armors
-Insensitive munition characteristics against liquid fuel fire and bullet hits
-Communication of seeker image to the user and command by user using Data Link.

Roketsan is also planning to produce versions of the missile that can be land vehicle-launched and intends to offer the UMTAS for export.

 

[skybolt]

 

[skybolt]

 

[skybolt]

To a question, Prime Minister Erdogan said the Turkish defence industry has significant production capacity in armoured personnel carriers, unmanned aerial vehicles and sea vessels.

Turkey will start production of attack helicopters by 2013, he said while referring to possibilities of defence cooperation between Pakistan and Turkey.
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Latest Pakistani News, Business, Gilani, Erdogan agree to strengthen bilateral ties

 

[Skywalker]

Still it can't out run the modern Man-portable SAMs that Pakistan's neighbors might field in the future.


I don't know why, but combat choppers seem like a waste of money. Good for insurgent warfare where the militants don't have SAMs to shoot it down, but no matter how modern it is, i can't see it surviving long in the airspace to be dominated by Mirage, MIGs,Sukhoi, F-16s or J-10s.

I know i know you can put all sorts of jammers and electronic stuff in to protect the chopper, but then that just raises the cost and the level of tech to that of a fighter.

I think, budgets should be spend more on UAVs and SMART missiles, rather than choppers.


Just my 2 cents.

Does that mean Americans and west are stupid to invest in combat helis. I think they forgot to take your advise. Chill our mate.

 

[cabatli_53]

The Attack Helos' engine powers can not be a sole indicator of being powerfull than rivals. The most important factor to judge the performance criterias of copters is the power to weight ratio of those systems. Have you ever checked the total take off weight of AH-1W's that 1690 shp engine powered ? Let's take a look of them.

T-129: Total takeoff weight : 5000kg/ Engine:1350x2shp(2700)= 540 shp/tonnes
AH-1W: Total take off weight: 6690kg/ Engine: 1690x2 shp=505shp/ Tonnes
Eurocopter Tiger HAP: Total Take off weight: 6000kg/ Engine:1170x2 shp = 390 shp/Tonnes



I think This figures are enough to tell Why T-129 is ahead of 1W in terms of performance criterias...

Thanks for clarifying.. not sure how you arrived at 540 sph/ton for T-129 and 500 sph/ ton for Cobra.. my figures are a bit low but still T-129 beats Cobra as per your conclusion


1 ton = 907.18474

Max take off weight Kg Tons
T-129 5000 =5000/ 90718474 =5.51
Cobra 6690 =6690/ 90718474 =7.37

powerplants
T-129 2 x 1361 = 2722 SPH
Cobra 2 x 1690 = 3380 SPH

T-129 2722/5.51= 493.87 SPH/ton
Cobra 3380/7.37= 458.34 SPH/ton

You did the same calculation with me but I get 1000kg equals to 1 tonnes in there... Besides, I took the power of T-129 as 1350 but The actual hoursepower of T-129 was 1361shp so The results of new calculation indicates more powerfull P/W ratio than previous...


For T-129;

Engine power: 1361x2 = 2722shp
Takeoff Weight: 5000kg= 5 tonnes

(P)2700shp/(W)5 tonnes= 544,4 shp power to lift per tonnes of T-129.

According to results of this calculation, T-129 is way ahead of European and USA W class rivals in terms of power performance...

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[somebozo]

Everything remains remains secret hints in Pakistan until it comes out in the open..remember how the world was shocked on our nuke test? and then on JF-17 unveiling??

 

[graphican]

T-129 has awesome control! Its going to be such a great addition to PA's arsenal. Mashallah! Alhamdolillah!