T-129 helis for P.A confirmed? PM Pakistan

[graphican]

50 of those? No I hope there should be some 120+ at-least.

 

[graphican]

T-128 would be a lot better than SuperCobra in many ways. I am happy we didn't go for an American platform this time.


Specifications (T-129)
Crew: 2 pilots
Length: 14.6 m (47 ft 11 in)
Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft&#178
Max takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
Powerplant: 2× LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor
Performance

Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
Ferry range: 1,000 km (540 nmi, 620 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)
Armament

Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
Rockets: 4 pods with
38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun-pod
Missiles:
8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, Roketsan Cirit anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
4-8× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles

AH-1W SuperCobra
Head-on view of a U.S. Marine Corps AH-1W carrying full armament
Data from Verier,[20] Modern Fighting Aircraft,[21] International Directory of Military Aircraft[22]
General characteristics

Crew: 2: pilot, co-pilot/gunner (CPG)
Length: 58 ft (17.7 m) (with both rotors turning)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft (14.6 m)
Height: 13 ft 9 in (4.19 m)
Disc area: 530.83 ft² (168.1 m&#178
Empty weight: 10,200 lb (4,630 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 14,750 lb (6,690 kg)
Powerplant: 2× General Electric T700-401 turboshaft, 1,690 shp (1,300 kW) each
Rotor systems: 2 blades on main rotor, 2 blades on tail rotor
Fuselage length: 45 ft 7 in (13.9 m)
Stub wing span: 10 ft 9 in (3.28 m)
Performance

Maximum speed: 190 knots (218 mph, 352 km/h)
Range: 317 nmi (365 mi, 587 km)
Service ceiling: 12,200 ft (3,720 m)
Rate of climb: 1,620 ft/min (8.2 m/s)
Armament

20 mm (0.787 in) M197 3-barreled gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 rounds ammo capacity)
2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 rockets - Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
5 in (127 mm) Zuni rockets - 8 rockets in two 4-round LAU-10D/A launchers
TOW missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two 4-round XM65 missile launchers, one on each outboard hardpoint
AGM-114 Hellfire missiles - Up to 8 missiles mounted in two 4-round M272 missile launchers, one on each outboard hardpoint
AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles - 1 mounted on each outboard hardpoint (total of 2)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

50 of those? No I hope there should be some 120+ at-least.

i think this is the A 129 agusta mangusta.

 

[graphican]

Cabatli wrote something mentioning a day in future and I think that day has come, Alhamdolillah.

Brothers,

Keep all those specifications of T-129 alive in your minds because the day When Turkish and Pakistani counterparts signed agreement to co-produce a proper version of T-129 for Pakistan requirements, I am going to remind you all those specifications of your own T or P-129 again... Personally, After Milgem cooperation agreement have done between two brother country, I have strong senses to make another great cooperation agreement for T-129 in those days too... It was also being registered by Pakistan authorities who have shown their interests for T-129 in inernational defence fairs...

Regards...

So Sir Cabatli, we are waiting for something that is safe to share.

 

[graphican]

i think this is the A 129 agusta mangusta.

Sir, whats the difference between the two? to me both look the same... what am I missing?

 

[ANG]

Dear All, one key question... Where is Pakistan going to get the money for buying this helicopter, setting up a plant, and training people on building and maintaining it? Given her economic situation, this seems highly unlikely. Turkey is not China, and cannot give Pakistan a soft loan or grant. Take care.

 

[TechLahore]

Turkey is not China, and cannot give Pakistan a soft loan or grant. Take care.

Let me ask you one key question. Are you familiar with Turkey's financial position and have you confirmed with their government that they will not be able to provide terms which would make the deal possible?

Because if you haven't, it seems you're just throwing out an ill-thought out doubt without considering that Pakistan has managed to procure everything it needed to from numerous sources, whether it is Chinese missiles, Russian engines, US jets, Swedish AWACS etc.

You rest easy and let the Armed Forces work with the Turkish firms in question to work out a deal.

 

[Jigs]

Sir, whats the difference between the two? to me both look the same... what am I missing?

Ours uses CTS800-4N engines that produce 1300 horsepower each. They are much more powerful then the stock ones the Italians use. The avionics are also all Turkish and the optics housing looks different. Besides that the structure is the same.


Stock A-129

T-129

 

[Irfan Baloch]

T-128 would be a lot better than SuperCobra in many ways. I am happy we didn't go for an American platform this time.

for me range, speed and max take off weight are very important and Super Cobra beats iT129 if we go by your numbers. also cobra has more powerful engine
only service cieling and rate of climb is where cobra is lagging.

 

[khurasaan1]

Cobras, yes, SuperCobras, no. The T-129 was in competition with te SuperCobra, and others. If the T-129 deal is finalized, then the SuperCobra dream is over. PAA will always look for more affordable Cobras. It's the PAA's F-16.

Of course, the USA could now make the SuperCobra affordable in light of this announcement, in which case I hope the PAA isn't foolish enough to fall for. Learn from the mistakes of the PAF.

I guess ur analysis is good...PAF should't fall for super cobras...and only go for T-129...

 

[khurasaan1]

for me range, speed and max take off weight are very important and Super Cobra beats iT129 if we go by your numbers. also cobra has more powerful engine
only service cieling and rate of climb is where cobra is lagging.

how come the cobra engine is powerful than T-129 if the rate of climb and the service cieling of cobra is lagging?????????

 

[Jigs]

for me range, speed and max take off weight are very important and Super Cobra beats iT129 if we go by your numbers. also cobra has more powerful engine
only service cieling and rate of climb is where cobra is lagging.

Look at the rate of climb.

 

[Donatello]

Still it can't out run the modern Man-portable SAMs that Pakistan's neighbors might field in the future.


I don't know why, but combat choppers seem like a waste of money. Good for insurgent warfare where the militants don't have SAMs to shoot it down, but no matter how modern it is, i can't see it surviving long in the airspace to be dominated by Mirage, MIGs,Sukhoi, F-16s or J-10s.

I know i know you can put all sorts of jammers and electronic stuff in to protect the chopper, but then that just raises the cost and the level of tech to that of a fighter.

I think, budgets should be spend more on UAVs and SMART missiles, rather than choppers.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Still it can't out run the modern Man-portable SAMs that Pakistan's neighbors might field in the future.


I don't know why, but combat choppers seem like a waste of money. Good for insurgent warfare where the militants don't have SAMs to shoot it down, but no matter how modern it is, i can't see it surviving long in the airspace to be dominated by Mirage, MIGs,Sukhoi, F-16s or J-10s.

I know i know you can put all sorts of jammers and electronic stuff in to protect the chopper, but then that just raises the cost and the level of tech to that of a fighter.

I think, budgets should be spend more on UAVs and SMART missiles, rather than choppers.


Just my 2 cents.

Yes well then how do you expect the Army to fight when the enemy helicopters come in above and take out 200 Al Khalid tanks with missiles from Helcopters ? The Al Khalids don't come with anti helicopter weapons - ? do they

The baktarshikens we got only work if a solider sets it up in open , if enemy has a helicopter shooting away while hoovering do you think the soliders will get a chance to setup those baktarshikens ?

Or how about scenarios when 20,000 soldiers are stuck on a difficult mountain terrain and they need food and petrol supplies how will the
F16 land on a mountain

Or How about When you have a natural desaster and you need to rush in supplies to 300 people stranded where there are no fancy airport runways

Or How about you plan to neutralize 30-40 Enemy combatants in urban areas ? The F16 will fly over the building over and over again , the pilot can hoover over and shot and kill running combatants on foot or in vehicles ? can he


The bottom line ins Helicoptors provide a powerful Punch against opposing nation's Tanks and ground units -

Yes its not good vs Fighter planes but its role is for support for ground unit's success-



We need 100 Transport helicopters
We need 100 Attack configuration choopers
We need 100 Multipurpose Helicopters for All purpose usage


The chooper is also a important vehicle to move troops from one location to another and to fly them also out from danger out to safer higher grounds -

Its a tactical Item -

Currently our Army with no Helicopters is no different then Iraq's Army it can't protect its airspace and it has no helicopters to launch deadly attacks on enemy Tanks with rockets

The helicopter is mainly suppose to reside with Army units for their operation for ground success -

The fighter planes are more for providing High Altitude and Air Superiority - Helicopters are not for Air Superiority but more as a added tactical item for Generals on ground

Heck you can move 20 commandos behind enemy lines with a helicopter and they do all sorta funky things ....Helicopters are a MUST

And not to mention - just providing that extra COVER for ground units - from other army

Fighter planes are like Hammer you use it to put nail in wall
The Helicopters are more like screw drivers to put scres in the wall

If the Army needs to screw enemy needs helicopters
if it needs to nail down a Enemy it will use F16, Thunders, and J10B

Also I have never seen a F16 airlift a injured solider before nor has it ever produced a escort to a group of military convoy while flying low altitude and provideing eye sight 360 degrees to ground realities from all sides so the military convoy is not ambused ??

F16 will do a flyby and then come back 15 min later after burning up half of its fuel and then it will need to land back in airport leaving the military convoy at mercy of enemy