Its very ironic. Anyone having a different point of view is dubbed as "Anti-Pakistan and Anti-Army". Why is that, I wonder?
Your PoV is indeed 'different', different as it is from itself as it is from those who'd seek to preserve Pakistan's self-respect and ideological integrity. I label your rhetoric Anti-PA because there is not one thing you said that acknowledges their sacrifice and contribution to this great nation, which they give to this very day. And the highest order of sacrifice is blood. Even in the worst days of the Iraq War, not even the bitterest American Bush critic would dare say that American soldiers are dying in vain. And not only do you and your friends do it so casually, you go further than that calling them mercenaries, slaves, camp followers, etc. You attribute all kinds on nonsense like arrogance, greed, incompetence, cowardice to them just because they fight peace/nation/harmony destroying entities like Al-Qaeda and TTP and then you wonder why we think you’re Anti-Pakistan and Anti-Army?
It is as much as my country as much as yours. The Army is as much as mine as much as yours.
And yet your words and claims are more akin to an Indian troll than a proud Pakistani. It maybe your army in the most technical sense, but if your attitude is anything to go by it’s easy to see why you rather disown them. Instead of expressing a balanced, constructive, well researched PoVs, yours is completely one sided, sweeping, naïve and uneducated. A typical attribute of Mullahs in the Pakistani society.
The only difference here is, you are either from Army or simply have allegiance, and hence blindly defending everything regarding that instituition.
Hm not really. The army is not perfect and any serving or retired member will tell you this. Only difference between you and me is that I rather see them do better. When I read or hear BS about them, I rather do some brainstorming and research about it myself before blindingly believing everything and cherishing that accusation. Also in tough situations, where things are complicated and unclear, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt as opposed to any Indian or Afghan or terrorist because they are our armed forces after all.
No, sir, the country rise when people question the motives of the instituitions, the actions of the government, the wrongdoings of the institutions and demands transparency.
No, countries rise and fall when there is unity of purpose and sincerity of spirit. This moral superiority complex and talks of ‘transparency’ and ‘wrong doing’ is just an excuse when it comes to most Pakistan cynics. For you see I have a simple rule, you don’t criticize unless you have a better plan, an alternative suggestion because criticism for its own sake is pointless and counterproductive. So do you have any suggestions? Any ideas? Nope you just come here with same old emotional and uneducated rhetoric. When it comes to the PA your standards and expectations are utopian but your comprehension of their situation is non-existent. You also seem to ignore the realities of a tough and unfair world which is far from utopian either. You don’t have a word of displeasure for those whose evil agendas the PA is trying to fight, but the fact that the PA is fighting at all is a source of great anger for you.
There are precious lives of soldiers as well as civilians are being lost for some dictators who wanted to cling to his seat for the rest of his life and abused the army and the power.
Defending your country is not a waste of life. Far from it, and you pretend that the honor and lives of soldiers is important to you, but I know better. Yours is an inherited, primitive dislike for those of the soldiery profession. It is hard for you the see the worth of what they do. It doesn’t matter to you if they fight the Taliban or America, India or tribal separatists, you’ll always come up with more of the same excuse to distance yourself and disown your own country’s endeavors; even if that endeavor is mere survival. Disowning of the PA by Pakistanis is nothing new, we are after all a very polarized society. In fact you don’t need very much to disown the PA nowadays, for many people the fact that the PA fired back in self-defense or tried to patrol a border is sufficient. The martial creed is considered a world apart, you don’t attribute any respect or understanding to the honors and responsibilities they carry. To you they’re just sub-human machines in uniform with guns lead by greedy leaders. WHAT EVER they do is always out of bounds in your view. Islam is also just another excuse for you to look down upon them without even knowing them.
I can see you’re not stupid enough to blame our young men and women (openly), but you still hate the Army. You basically accused them of being capable of little more than producing selfish, power-hungry, corrupt, disloyal generals and being a complete drag on the country. But nothing could be further from the truth, whatever Musharraf was, he was barely the level of dictatorship, cruelty and singular ambition we saw in Nawaz Sharif’s or Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s time on the helm. Musharraf inherited the country at a tough spot, perhaps the toughest we have faced ever. He made tough decisions and naturally he made mistakes. But corruption wise he was clean, and his policies were designed to be in Pakistan’s interests. People like you however played on the masses insecurities, their fears, their stereotypes, their frustrations, their emotions in this time of great hardship. And the result is, you legitimized these terrorists not only in the mind of your own people but in the mind of the terrorists themselves. It was a force multiplier for them and fatality corrosive for national interests and for those whose job it is to defend them.
I’ve known people like you before. If whatever ideals that dictate your view were to have prevailed and Pakistan had ended up ignoring or confronting the US then you would have accused the same PA of pitting us against an enemy we could not defeat. But since we tried to get our own house in order so instead you accuse the PA of being mercenaries for the US. If the PA protects the country’s integrity by fighting brutal Baloch warlords then you’d have said we’re killing our own people. If India makes war on us and we have to confront that threat, your view will be more of the same; the PA is making the country suffer so people stay in line and fearful and what not, basically straight off an Indian propaganda book. Like I said NOTHING is EVER going to be good enough for your sort. Whatever stand the PA takes, it will always be the wrong move in your view.
You talk about our strategies as if one like yourself is qualified enough to second guess these things. Then fine I challenge you. Come up with a better what in your mind is a strategy or a reasonable course of action. Here is the situation we faced 8 years ago: Al-Qaeda and allies; exiles from all over the world, battle hardened ruthless fighters with questionable allegiances to anything or anyone including Islam. They flood into our unguarded borders in the tribal areas because they can’t face the might of a half hearted American campaign to oust them from Afghanistan; a country whose people don’t want them anymore. What do you do? Your country is under crushing sanctions, your enemies are rising, hoping to isolate, vilify and then eliminate your potentials. What do you do? I seriously wanna know. You forget your tribal areas? Let the tribes get compromised and infiltrated and eventually break away? What?
So Musharraf ‘killed people’ to ‘make America happy’ so he can ‘stay in power’ because ‘only America’ decides who stays in power, eh? I would expect this kind of nonsense from someone studying in a Madressah all his life (maybe I’m not wrong on that count after all). You attribute this monstrous malice to people, why? Do you check the moral credentials of yourself or those who do this accusing? Your primitive mentality will be the end of this country. This reckless unreasoning hate destroys things but doesn’t make anything. It is this attitude which made Musharraf’s job 10 times tougher than it should’ve been. And God knows it was tough enough already.
If we are to keep on denying every wrongdoing of the certain institutions we have allegiances/associations with.
What ‘wrong doings’ and ‘crimes’ is the poor PA guilty of indulging in? By the standards of the rest of the country and the world anyway…Firing at a tribesman who fires at them is a CRIME for an Army patrolling the borders of its OWN country? Or going after guys who chop heads off hostages (innocent people and servicemen), blow up schools, ruin the country’s sovereignty in every sense of the word, who impose themselves on the average Pakistani through force of intimidation and arms, those who are an abomination to Islam and anathema to Jinnah’s vision for Pakistan? Are these the ‘crimes’ you talk about? No these are not crimes, it’s just your lack of civic sense and duty and non-existence of your national loyalty and vision.
This is reminding me of East Pakistan. Every other Pakistani denied what GoP was doing in Bangladesh, and the GoP, as usual, tried everything to cover it up, and there, we gave a golden opportunity to enemy to interfere and use the benefit of our arrogance and ignorance and cut our arm.
Yes exactly what I’m talking about. You certainly remember and gleefully recite all the ‘crimes’ (highly exaggerated as it turned out) of the Pakistan Army in East-Pakistan. Something Indian text books and movies would, like you, high light beyond all accurate proportions.
But what about the pathetic amount of loyalty and faith displaced by the locals? What about nation-breaking treacherous scum like Mujahib and the Muktai Bahani? What about all their reckless hate and weakness through which they got manipulated by the enemy? Wasn’t 71 a lesson for us about why we should keep foreign poisonous ideologies like yours out of our country? Wasn’t that reason for us to take a fierce ideological fight to those who advocate tribal, ethnic identity above nationality Mister ‘Pashtun’?
Wasn’t that a reason for us to strengthen our borders and our people against infiltration and guard them jealously? Given our experiences, should we not be the first to call out those who advocate/justify/tolerate the actions of those who use internal violence as a tool for change?
You haven’t learned anything from 71, mainly because you don’t know anything about 71, only whatever it is that your Anti-Pakistani affiliates have told you. Which is that Pakistan has no right to defend its territorial sovereignty because the PA will forever be evil and can do nothing good, is that it? People who might consider violence against the state should be taken to account from the start. Dhaka did not happen because the PA launched a counter-insurgency operation (in fact that saved Dhaka for longer than it would have) but because politicians like Bhutto and Mujhib tried to manipulate and lash the uneducated and emotional masses into a frenzy (much like what politicians are doing today). If the PA had withdrawn before the 71 then East-Pakistan would have gone to Indian forces too, at least this way we tried. You see no one bothers suggesting genuinely realistic positive outlets for the people’s concerns, all the people get is vulgar one sided rhetoric like yours. See not a word of displeasure we hear from you Pashtun for those entities that have bought war and death to the once peaceful regions of our country. Whose every act is a demonstration of barbarianism and those whose shameless ambition is unlimited. Not one word for them where as Pakistan is smashed and ridiculed again and again by you for everything from 71 to Red Mosque. But not even one deed from the terrorists provokes your irk? And then you ask why I call you Anti-Pakistani and Anti-PA, why I think your lot is naïve and primitive?
Dhaka fell because India invaded due to our weakened military disposition which was because of weakened popular ideological perception which was due to politicians exploiting lack of singular vision and faith in the masses. The country’s problems just won’t evaporate by blaming everything on the army and telling them to withdraw. That in fact is the worst possible rhetoric you can make in a time of war, because it is counterproductive. What the PA needs now is the nation’s prayers, faith and support. The PA has done NOTHING to deserve the likes of you. No one gave a damn about the tribal areas in BB or NS’s time, no one minded supporting the Taliban. But now since it was during Musharraf’s time this tribal/Taliban problem began then people like Pashtun came and banged the entire weight of history on the PA’s head, as if somehow it was the PA that was responsible for not giving FATA a chance at a proper life or development (PA always tried, it was the tribes that resisted). Where is your sense of balance? Where is your sense of justice? Where is your genuine concern for the nation’s affairs?
You have no ‘concerns’, because if you did you’d at least care to familiarize yourself with the reality first. All you have is raw unchecked contempt and you seek to fit in whatever half-truths with that narrow vision of yours you call a ‘reality’. There is no professional, dispassionate, objective thinking from the likes of you (or our parliament for that matter), all you know about is rants, political scoring, and generalized nonsensical upheaval.
You’re morally and ideologically confused and concepts like faith and loyalty mean nothing to you. Patriotism is just such an outdated, old style concept for you right? The latest fashion is in criticizing everything the government does, no doubt picked up from Indian or American trends only difference is that they do what they do to serve their country’s interests. You instead of creating a reasonable counter-balance just can't help taking the easy way yourself.
No, there's no propoganda. It's a fact that PA/ISI supported Talebans. It's a fact that Pakistan was the first country that legitimised Talebans and supported them with every thing they could to gain control of Afghanistan.
Factually speaking this maybe true, but your words and implications are a propaganda never the less. Like I said you pick out overblown observations out of foreign media and fit them into your little anti-Army vision. Then you come here to suggest that our support to the Taliban is so morally incriminating, and that our turning our backs on Taliban is also a moral outrage and/or cowardice and we’re getting what we deserve and what not. All completely rubbish and essentially foreign anti-Pakistani themes. Here is the reality.
Pakistan did support the Taliban of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar just like most Afghans did, just like the Saudis, the UAE and the Americans to a large extent at the time. Things went wrong, we were never in a position to give orders. Our advice on everything from the destroying of the Buddha statues to the sheltering of Al-Qaeda was disregarded. When an American attack was imminent, we tried our best to convince Omar that he won’t able to withstand it, that he should compromise with Al-Qaeda. Again we were ignored and insulted, we were right. The US invasion of Afghanistan was legal according to international protocol, and the subsequent swift overthrowing of the Taliban was a clear indication of their insufficient domestic support too. We had lesser obligation to stand by them than they had to stand by us, by what logic should we, a nation of 166 million, have sided with a broken and outlawed irregular group? By what moral or Islamic logic should we have invited all this trouble and death into our country when their own countrymen don’t want them?
And you dare come here, you DARE come here to tell us that the PA or ISI invited the Taliban into our unguarded tribal borders? Just so that you can later accuse us of hypocrisy when we fight them? They came in despite our best efforts. We deployed brigades worth of troops based on what we saw on the news alone (Americans didn’t bother informing us) but in the end it was an impossible task particularly with the much honored Pashtun tendency to shoot everything that moves and doesn’t speak Pahasto. The tribes were infiltrated, manipulated, used and eventually sidelined by the Taliban who used the same lovely logic you’re preaching here… That the Pak Army are ‘slaves’ to America for exercising order and control over their own country and should be eliminated through brutal war. Nothing Islamic or morally righteous about it, just same old tribal and ethnic vanity, opportunities and ambition for violence and loot and conquest. Where people like you should’ve been honorable and firm, and said no we do not tolerate violence against the state and state institutions, which is the UNIVERSAL law of statehood, Islamic or otherwise. You and our politicians rather take the easy cowardly way out, blame everything on the Army and America. No need to look at this objectively or think about our country’s future or prosperity or well being. If the Army fights back, call them traitors, proclaim fatwas forbidding their Namaz-e-Janazas, make exploitation of the WoT the cornerstone of your political ambitions. Doesn’t matter if you come up with no workable solutions, the nation is too thick to realize that anyway. Soldiers and officers are dying? Well who cares, our sons and fathers don't go into the army, our family is ‘elite’. Lets continue with this, already PA has pressure from aboard, let’s try to make most of the pressure ourselves. People die? Long term stability ruined? International, humanitarian, Islamic Law broken? Who cares? It is not politically convenient to blame the terrorists ever, just blame the army for ruining the people’s lives. When the terrorists commit a crime say it is the Army’s fault for forcing them to do it, but if there is collateral damage when the Army fights? Oh yes that is completely unforgivable and the army should be condemned. Isn’t this right Mr Pashtun?
The result of the above mentality, we are still struggling with terrorists to this very day. It would have been long over if the people of Pakistan and politicians had thrown their weight behind the Army’s efforts to expel foreigners.
But in answer to your retarded insinuations. Pakistan (like a lot of people)
once supported the Afghan Taliban under Mullah Omar but has had absolutely NO connections with Al-Qaeda. The Pakistani Taliban (TTP) we are fighting now have no connection with Mullah Omar’s Taliban and have openly defied Mullah Omar’s authority. Mullah Omar doesn’t have a very high view of Betullah Mehsud and I reckon same is the case the other way round. The Pakistani Taliban also have a closer affiliation with Al-Qaeda militants than the original Taliban ever did. The Haqqanis and Hekmatyar groups were supported by us during the 80s and were supplied weapons and finances from all over the world. These 2 groups, it is alleged, constitute part of the Taliban spectrum that is not openly hostile to the PA and is apparently trying to convince the Betullah group to stop confronting the PA as well. Also these 2 groups were not part of Mullah Omar’s Taliban and have in fact confronted the Taliban in their own times. Mullah Fazrullah, the Swat Taliban group is an affiliate of Betullah, not Mullah Omar and we don’t owe any loyalty or allegiance to him or anyone else. It is hard to have the entire picture these days I know, but I unlike you and Indians, would naturally give my servicemen the benefit of the doubt until as time things are made irrefutably clear instead of trying to implicate them in some imaginary moral dilemmas. We already have enough Anti-Pakistani people doing that all over the net, we don’t need your addition. Indians movies are not a reality Pashtun, time you and your friends understand.
And you have yet to address the contradictions in your allegations. You can either accuse us of being 'guilty' of befriending the Taliban or being 'guilty' of trying to kill them. You cant hit us with both sides of the hammer. Your hate for the PA is unreasoning, but you have to chose your side never the less.
You must understand the design of the Super Powers as to how they play their games by installing their own people in GoP and other institutions and then when its time, they make the case and go after the country(Iraq is the best example).
This is a tough world no doubt. But the west and the superpowers are not out to get you. Those who are weak and easily manipulated will always be preyed on, which is only natural. People like you make Pakistan and Pakistanis weak, disunited, confused and unfocused. Just like the Americans thought the Iraqis were, so they could just walk over them. How can you compare Pakistan to Iraq anyway, we know you don’t have a very high opinion of Pakistan but this is too much. How many years was Saddam in power and how many years Musharraf? Did Musharraf have a secret police that kept the nation in complete fear? We have the opposite infact, we have people like you running around with air time in the middle of a war. What Kurds did Musharraf or the PA gas? What Shias did Musharraf or the PA massacre? Did we ever use Chemical weapons on anyone? Did we ever fight a brutal pointless 8 year old war with a fellow Muslim country? I ask again, WHY without ANY reason do you think so lowly of your own country? Does it give you savage pleasure?
If someone was to invade Pakistan, they would use your rhetoric to do it Pashtun. Almost word to word, about how the PA has ‘enslaved’ Pakistani people. About how we lack moral credentials, and you think people like me are the ones who leave the door wide open for foreign interference.
Al-Qaeda? does Al-qaeda even exist? That tells me how much you know about international affairs.
LOL, sorry please excuse my ignorance for thinking Al-Qaeda exists. But whatever Al-Qaeda is, whoever is pulling their strings, whoever is using or manipulating them, they still HAVE NO PLACE in Pakistan. All this violence, all those suicide bombings, IED attacks, a thousand plus soldiers, thousands of civilians don’t drop dead of their own accord. Again you take the easy way out by pretending that Al-Qaeda doesn’t exist or that they can’t be ‘Muslim’. Grow up, they are what they are, they are wrong and they have to be destroyed. Your sort is in the way.
You lack the courage to acknowledge that all who are born Muslim or act in the name of Islam, are not Islamic.
And it amazes me how people here assume things on their own. e.g. accusing me for "praising western and indian democracy standards" and "snubbing Pakistan".
I didn’t accuse you of it. I was just talking about people from whom you get your rhetoric. But I won’t be surprised if you said it, given the fact that you consider the PA’s involvement in government in the best an unforgivable crime and abomination, a stain on the honor of generations of officers. It is not hard to see whose standards you’re trying to mimic. Your expectations and demands in regards to the PA’s nature and conduct are utopian, but any standards that you might apply to western principles of democracy or even Islam are non-existent. International or Islamic Law does not allow for private Armies, it does not allow for private armies carrying out ‘justice’ and chopping the heads of those who disagree. There is no place in civilized societies for those who use extreme violence to satisfy their agenda, there is no place for those who use violence at all.
You refer to some concepts of democracy and Islam which you accuse the PA of having broken, but ALL the rules and regulations and fundamentals that go with these concepts are ignored by you for the sake of the terrorists. You legitimize a chaotic, violent, confused, irrevocably inhumane and backward agenda and you pretend to have vision or moral authority over anyone? Over Pakistani soldiers?
When people like you are there to defend "all the wrongdoings" and snub everyone who raises his voice by calling him/her "any-pakistan" and "india-lover".
I unlike you, defend no ‘wrong doings’. I unlike you have the courage and a sense of moral obligation to acknowledge the wrong doings and I, unlike you, also have the decency to support and respect those who are trying to confront and destroy the wrong doers in spite of any personal frustration or bias I might have towards them.
As far as you having a lot in a lot in common with some of our Indian posters here in regards to your view of the PA… well I’m surprised they haven’t thanked all your posts yet. But I’m sure they would have done if it wasn’t for you obvious pro-Taliban tendencies.
brilliant strategy of the west, I must admit.
LOL, the west is not out to get you. You and people like you are a joke in themselves. The west just wants their agendas filled, and the pathetic, pointless, paranoid and undisciplined people in 3rd world countries just make their job all the more easier.
If you haven't noticed, one of the yank here also supported you all for killing your own people and excellently saying "patrioc pakistanis".
You should know, there is another American here. He thinks that Pakistan is dragging its feet in the WoT so naturally I and he are usually at odds. But you’d get along with him much better because he, like you, likes to think of the PA as little more than an organization of corrupt and incompetent aristocrats who are suffocating the Pakistani people. But you know what? I still respect him more than I respect you, because he pushes the line for his country. He pushes the legitimacy of country’s agendas and endeavors at the cost of ours. Being a frontline ally to a superpower is no easy job after all, but there is respect. You on the other hand push the line against your own country, seeking to rob us of all moral, social and legal credibility. That’s sad, and makes us a worse nation than say Turkey, you know why? Because in this world if you don’t speak up for your own honor and interests, no one will do it for you. Why is it that only the Pakistan Army is tasked with the defense of Pakistan’s ideological frontiers? The PA is quashed between people like you and people like him. Instead of providing a natural counter-weight for your country, you like our politicians rather take the dishonorable easier route instead of being constructive for the nation and through it the world.
I guess patriotism is left for those who supports the western design that the country is supporting?
You’d be more than happy to call Turkey and Turkey’s system an aspect of ‘western design’. But recently they were the ones threatening to pierce the sovereignty of a US Occupied country in defiance of the US where as in Pakistan it’s the other way round, isn’t it? We have all the potential; manpower, population, military might they have and more but why are we the ones facing a situation where our integrity is threatened? The only difference between our respective situations are a whole lot of insecure, confused and self-loathing people like you who hold us back; people who owe their loyalty to no one and no ideal, and most certainly not Islam. Our sovereignty is violated by US drones no doubt, but it is also ruined on a larger scale by people you ignore, you support or legitimize. The only thing holding Muslims back is our lack of civilization-al maturity, something that is manifested by your words perfectly. I know for a fact that most Turkish are more patriotic than you, and what they dont know they dont talk about.
How exactly you know I never served Pakistan? is serving the country only means one have to be in Army?
I’m sure you haven’t served in the military but that’s not what I was referring to. You lack the capacity to comprehend what I meant by ‘serving the Pakistan that is’. It means you give your allegiance, loyalty and respect to your people and nation despite any shortcomings or failings you see in them. It means you try to make the country better instead of trying to belittle it without justification down straight. In order to make Pakistan better, if that is indeed your wish, you need to start from somewhere. And let’s see how much help your sort has been to Pakistan recently. Here we are in the middle of a brutal, tough war. Every day brings more blood (service-men and innocents), more international ridicule and more chaos. How do people like Pashtun ‘serve’ Pakistan in these tough situations? By branding the forces fighting to contain chaos ‘traitors’ and ‘mercenaries’, by legitimizing the terrorists, their crimes and their agendas all the while demanding that we break relations with the west. A great service you are doing Mr Pashtun, surely we can see you have the country’s larger interests at heart. When people in your country rape innocent women in the name of punishing Zina, here you are sitting and telling us that they are following a noble cause? You
dare to tell us fellow Muslims, that these men aspire to Islamic ideals of all things? And then you claim the PA has issues with right and wrong?
The country does not flourish, because it is ruled by army for half of her life. The other half was directly influenced.
You just did it, didn’t you? Mindlessly attributing all of Pakistan’s ills to the Army. Well if members of the nation’s armed institutions participating in government is such an ‘outrage’ to you, the rest of us would have only hoped that these lofty standards you would have applied to your RPG wielding, people intimidating, self-imposing brutal Taliban friends as well. At least when the PA takes over it is not done through force of arms and public beheadings.
This is the ‘Islam’ you want is it? You say that women should not go to the market place alone and quote a Quranic verse to that effect, I challenge you and say they can go quoting an Hadith to that effect. Who decides then? If my women go to the market and you try to harm them then there is war amongst Muslims, in the name of Islam of all things. And then what decides who wins? The fact that who’s got a bigger gun ofcourse, the person who is willing to cross a few lines. Is this the future you have envisioned for our creed? A future of barbarianism and disorder, is that what Islam means to you? Maybe it does, but not to the vast Majority of Pakistanis. Pakistan is a nation of higher caliber than you, and the PA will not shrink from its duty and oaths no matter how easily that comes to you.
No not Islam, like everything else you have twisted, corrupted and perverted all these noble ideals to excuse your instinctive hate for the PA and the crimes of those you obviously sympathize with.
The dictatorships only land the country in utter chaos. Specially as big as ours. Perhpas if you haven't noticed, Pakistan crumbled in past 10 years. One after another incidence and our stupid policies to deal with them, almost caused us terrorist state notion.
You impulsively label Pakistan a complete dictatorship, but how many dictators come in with legal sanction and wide spread popular/political backing. The fact that the military have felt obliged to take the helm is not a sickness, it is a symptom. In the end no one hates military rule more than military-men, but a realistic evaluation will tell you that there was little choice. Atleast people like Ayub, Zia, Musharraf tried to offer something to the nation, tried to make amends, bothered trying to fix things and looked for a concept of democracy that would fit us…more than can be said for any civilians. And at least they all left peacefully when it was clear their services were unwanted and didn’t use violence and mass murder to retain their seats.
You cannot talk about dictatorship because you don’t know what it’s like. Have you ever lived in North Korea under Kim, Iraq under Saddam, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, Egypt under Mubarak or even Saudi under the Sauds? No those are real dictatorships, where talking like you are right now will mean you and your family are dead. Much like what we would face in a Taliban-government situation (or worse). Pakistan has given you so much, yet you do not realize it. You are intent on comparing us to the monarchs of the middle east, when we are so much more. I sincerely hope with every fabric of my being that the military never has to come in again, but then again looking at people of your nature and purpose, it is not that hard to see why the people of Pakistan might need drastic methods of salvation. But I do expect their stabilizing, reassuring, deterring influence to last from the background, because Pakistan needs it. Sad truth of the matter is that there would not have been a Pakistan today if it wasn’t for the Army, and I’m not just talking about India ambitions. PA is the one truly national institution which slices through all the lines of social, ethnic, sectarian, financial differences like if they don’t exist. I say this with both pride and regret, but it’s true. Those who make violence against the PA, attack the very fabric of the nation. You cannot afford to be so disillusioned and delusional and blame all our woes on the Army and America. Jinnah’s vision has yet to be realized, but guess what? Your Taliban friends are certainly not the way to go.
Pakistan has NOT crumbled BTW, you don’t know what a crumbled Pakistan would look like. This is another example of your mentality with naïve conceptions for what passes for a reality in your head.
One after another stupid policies landed us into "Top 10 Failed State" status.
No it is your Taliban friends, and your failure to support those who fight them that has landed us in that list. Why do you care about that damn list so much anyway? You certainly don’t care if a western think tank lists the Taliban as the main force ruining Pakistan and continue to indulge in your contempt for the Army’s efforts to eradicate them.
I guess we are on two different sides of the river. Time will tell, time always tell.
Yes we are. And I hope the battle lines are drawn quickly and plainly so your type can be sorted out soon and the people of Pakistan can be on their way to a greater future. History will remember Pakistan's resolute sons who wanted to help, but will not regard highly those who have only been obstacles to achieving Pakistan's full potential.
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if anyone knows how to tire people out with his/her energetic self, it's definitely you Pashtun! I'm afraid, I can't understand logic anymore and my intellect has dried up.
