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Swat Operation II

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if alquaeda doesn't exist or is just a pretext then pashtun you might actually be making sense.

why did the arabs come to afghanistan, what were they doing there?
 
if alquaeda doesn't exist or is just a pretext then pashtun you might actually be making sense.

why did the arabs come to afghanistan, what were they doing there?

before 9/11 or after 9/11??

before 9/11: were they not allowed to go to afghanistan? if u r talkin about OBL, he had blood relations in both Saudia and Afghanistan

after 9/11: well they came to help afghanis in their fight against invaders.

btw this thread is about swat
 
do NOT get started on this sh!t, Dhakka fell because of the ignorance of people there, secularism and hindu influence, indian contribution, and last but not least, maltreatment of bengalis. do NOT make baseless claims of oppression, you have no idea what happened and why it happened. things are not as one-sided as indians, bangladeshis, and of course you, imagine and depict.

P.S: a piece of advice to all the members here, if any of you choose to ignore rants, I encourage you to do so. if you bother replying, you do so at your own expense. you will only be tired out in the end.

Assad, they could be baseless very well but I am coming from Hamood Ur Rahman commission report (not the biased international figure). And that report was approved by GoP and Military. If you think someone is based on that commission report and doesn't know anything, than thats fine, it's your take on it. Because I know the right information can only be coming from you as you once said. So my appologies for challenging your information with Hamood Ur Rahman commission report.

But anywhichway, I agree, there's no need to discuss that in this topic, it was just a figure of speech regarding an argument, if someone would like to carry it tho, I'd be more than happy to learn and share the views but wouldn't like to divert the topic myself either.
 
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Alright, for the sake of advancing this discussion, lets move back to Swat. The issue of 'revolutions' and such while quite interesting is obviously off topic.

Lal Masjid is over and done with, and we obviously have a raging insurgency on our hands that needs to be dealt with. I believe Pashtun has quite clearly stated that he does not support the people burning down schools or slaughtering civilians and soldiers alike. Where I woudl like him to clarify is whether he considers the TTP (Swat) own statements accepting responsibility for these actions and issuing Fatwa's banning education for girls as evidence that along with foreigners, we have local people from Swat and FATA who are involved in these heinous acts - Mullah Fazlullah and his spokesman Muslim Khan being part of the leadership.

I am less certain of Anwar2's opposition to these crazed extremists, and that is more worrying given his statement of having served in the military, since it might indicate that some in the officer class are all to willing to harbor sentiments supporting an overthrow of the State (treason) by gun toting extremists, in pursuit of some Utopian (in their minds) Khilafat.

But the point here is this, the US presence in Afghanistan has nothign to do with Mullah FM, in terms of his goals. Unlike Mullah Nazir, Gul Bahadur, Haqqani etc. Mullah FM is not waging a jihad against occupation - his goal is to take control of the Swat valley and impose his medieval mindset on the people there, and possibly extend it from there to other parts of Pakistan.

There is no question then that this is a challenge to Pakistan from within Pakistan (no matter who might be supplying him or supporting him externally) and it needs to be met. This is not therefore about fighting the USWoT, it is about fighting the Pakistani War on Terror. There should be no question about the legitimacy of the fight in Swat and the need for the military to have our full support.

Criticize their tactics sure, criticize their failures , sure. But at the same time it needs to be constructive criticism. Assad is correct in that he has chewed out the PA, here and on other forums, for appearing to capitulate in front of the militants, especially when we were signing peace deals with them, after the deals had failed the first time. But he has also argued for the Army to take a more aggressive CI position, and not asked for the Taliban to be allowed to run riot in the face of perceived failures.

So criticize the tactics all you want, but it shoudl be clear that the Taliban are not going to be allowed to take control of our land and subjugate our people, and to that end even poor tactics are better than no opposition at all.
 
Well not exactly. Sufi Mohammed supports Fazulllah and endorses what he does. Secondly, it's a misinformation that Sufi Muhammad does not want armed conflict with GoP. He was the main person who started this armed conflict back in the 90s:
So I am not sure where you are getting your information from about sufi Mohammad.
I dont know y ur only looking at half the picture!
1.TNSM renounces militancy; Sufi Mohammad freed
TNSM renounces militancy; Sufi Mohammad freed -DAWN - Top Stories; April 22, 2008
2.The TTS parted its ways from TSNM of Sufi Mohammad as the later refused to launch a violent movement for enforcement of Sharia’h in the region. The TNSM has reportedly opposed the TTS warning too.Tehrik-e-Taliban Swat (SST) led by Maulvi Fazlullah, a splinter faction of Tehrik Nifaz-e-Sharia’h Mohammadi (TNSM) of Sufi Mohammad..WEEKLY PULSE
3.In this context, the TNSM’s role in the ongoing Swat crisis is intriguing. Its founder, Maulana Sufi Muhammad, who is also the father-in-law of Maulana Fazlullah, has distanced himself from the happenings in Swat and expelled Fazlullah from his organization.
http://san-pips.com/PIPS-SAN-Files/SAN-Home/SAN-PAK-Article7/San-Main-A7-D.htm
Also reinforced by the ANP info minister (in the video link u provided) that until now he has abided by the agreement.My info stands validated.
Thats a wrong information again. It wasn't him who broke the truce, it was Federal Govt. that broke the truce by arresting their people. The six point deals also included that no action will be taken against them or their fighters. Yet, the GoP broke the truce by arresting one of their leader in Hangu, breaking the truce TTP made with Prov. govt. and the Provincial Govt. raised their concern over that as well, because they are the biggest losers in that - the following video will attesify this and the other facts on ground:
Capital Talk – 19th January 2009
Beg to differ again;
The truce was broken twice by fazllulah and not the gop;
1st signed in may 2007..ended with the beheadings of two policemen,4 mnths later,post the LM siege,when fazllulah declared(revenge)'jihad' on Pakistan until shariah reaches islamabad!
2nd in may 2008,this time 15 point deal,ends two months later around the 8th of july again with an ambush on 4 policemen in peshawar.
"The Swat agreement is scrapped as the militants have (continued) their attacks on security forces," said Rahman Malik, an adviser to Pakistan's prime minister. Malik's statement comes after four policemen were killed in an ambush in the provincial capital of Peshawar.
Pakistan's Swat peace agreement in the crossfire - The Long War JournalPakistani government inks peace deal with Swat Taliban - The Long War Journal
Even if that minister was correct (Various reports point otherwise),its obvious the TTS broke the truce first.The arrested militant was beitullah's aide,not TTS,as the minster puts it he was released later,didnt stop the violence!
You are mistaken again. Dir and Kohistan and Buner and Shnglapar, militants tried to take control of these areas (they even blew one masjid along with worshippers in dir) but the response from the people was exceptional and they dealt with the problem. The Military told them they will help them, but they refused and said they will take care of the matters.
ur only reafirming wht I said before.btw sufi mhd is based in tirimgarha,dir.The writ of the gov is maintained there,as per the deal.
Now go back to Matta, Kabal, Charbagh (is as big as a mall in North America btw), here army started operation on their own. Nobody asked for it and now we can see whats going on there. Similarly Mingawara was very quiet, even during the elections, but as soon Army stepped in, that too has fell.
Hot spots of TTS.Elections were held post the first phase of the operation.Fazllulah was badly defeated then.90% Swat under GOP.Enter the new gov,a subsequent peace deal,gives them two mnths to regroup and the show starts again!
(link to source available if u want)
So the point here is, who is forcing PA to create this gap between themselves and the civilian society that now PA officers are told not to disclose they are from Army and do not wear uniforms in public. I mean why?
Thanks to one sided views by the media.Thanks to our fanatic mullahs now,the security personal,be it police,paramilitary or the military,none r safe!Neither r the civilians for that matter.
yes, so what do you do? start flattening he villages?
if u refer to bajaur or khar,it had to be done to avoid ambushes,since u wont take my word here's frm the horses' mouth
You have to either occupy or remove the structures," says one soldier, "otherwise the militants will return to them once we've left." read complete here
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Crucial battle on Pakistan's frontline
In the case of swat there r pitched battles.I wish the PA could flatten mountains,it probably would have made the task much easier!
Kill everyone because you don't know who is who?
most of the villigers,like i repeated b4 get caught in the crossfire.its sad really,but they were being butchered by tts as well.atleast now someone's fighting back.
or should you come with a better strategy, something political, something more surgical. You do not cut the arm if it is hurting you. You fix it, through proper means.
swat is destined to be the talibans ultimate fighting ground,and to spread their ideology,thanks to the difficult terrain and its proximity to islamabad.
I do not support a dialogue alone,that would only indicate a loosing grip on the valley.more troop movement and a massive operation launched backed by ssg and intelligence network and a political,civilian backup.I hope.
Why has he allowed to meet with american officials in Serena Hotel (confirmed in one of Zaid hamid's lectures)? why has he allowed to hold press conferences? Why he is given safe passages many time when people reported on the ground that he is there and PA should take action? rather PA stood by and the people who reported it, found shot dead the other day.
Paste sources plz.it depends if these interviews were conducted during the peace deals or after.The deals r interesting too..a large part unknown!
And what will be in the end (the third phase), another deal struck with him to find peace. Watch, there will be another deal in the making soon. So if we are to make deals with him, then why destroy the lives of your own citizens? why not just make the bloody deal and get over it!
i understand the frustration but i hope not...there r two examples to go by,no wonder an accelaerated operation has been launched but we can only hope and pray that this time round the army suceeds.if there has to be a deal it should be from a point of strength,not weakness as the prev were.
Exactly. We loss much more than what we gained in few helicopters and few billion dollars. That is why I said, some people, some where up there, made these decisions for their own petty gains. Not for the country.
I dont think PA itself gained anything more than alot of backlash,most of it uncalled for.Our 'aid ' has been less than required.Frankly even if didnt receive it anymore...it wont make extremism or the likes of fazllulah disappear.He is our very own nightmare.Eliminating these goons is equally imp for us!
I
still disagree. The people of Swat are are not migrating in masses. Families are leaving, who can afford to leave, thats about it. Everyone is still there. Media is just exagerating that.
Incorrect.only till end of dec 2008,a third of the population had migrated,and recently there r thousands moving to safer places.
U wil find this in the above links ive posted
Officials estimate that up to a third of Swat's 1.5 million people had already left the area uptill dec 2008.
around 20,000 civilians have fled pitched battles in a week.Pakistan 'kills 35 militants', thousands flee Swat - Yahoo! News
U can find a latest video on aljazeera as well.
It's not like Bajaur, where over half a million were made refugees to destroy "tunnels". I am not sure how a tunnel can be dug in those treacherous mountains from Afghanistan to 100 km inside Pakistan. These people must be sent to Switzerland to dug that tunnel under Alps that they are trying to dig for years to build a railway line.
I dont know y u find this fact to be so funny.have a read below.its been a part of afghan warfare as well.
Pakistan steps up its offensive against militants - Sulekha.com News
(Tho I am sure you've heard the stories abotu jawans dropping the weapons by refusing to kill their own muslim brethern).
And they learned that these 'muslim' breathren will not bat an eyelash before they decaptitate them and parade in the markets of Mingora! I donot class these fanatics as muslims or our brothers!
I disagree. Swat and FATA is a mismangement of PA. They never let civilian instituition to take control. Musharraf unilaterly decided everything, from operations to invasions. Everything.
Invasions?Things detoriated post the peacedeals,u will see from the above reports.corruption in our civilian institutes has never let anything develop.We have our chance now,but its sad to see such clueless gov officials as those ministers in the video link.Hell even ppl on these forum can give better ideas to bring abt civilian progress in Swat!
And that is exactly what happened in Dhakka. yahya said, kill three million of them and rest will eat from our hands. He was not civilian leader, but military dictator. There was no civilian govt. at that time.
My bad.Wht i meant was the power struggle and total mistrust amongsnt the two parties that won the election in '71 to form a democratic gov.Civic failures of such scales bring in such tragedies.
And General Kiyani's recent remarks that Army have to intervene in GoP time to time to make sure everything goes accordingly, makes perfect sense that Military runs the govt.
R u sure the word he used was 'intervene'?again id prefer a link to that piece of news.
Let us die hungry or in the hands of enemy (if thats the final fate), but with dignity, and not by the people who sworn to protect us.
I would have said bravo to that stand,only that i dont agree.Would u rather languish at the will of the fanatics?Sir while I understand that high collateral damage is not acceptable,it will decrease with the ppl leaving for safer places,we hafto understand that they only way forward is through maximum possible elimination of these parallel forces.Its not simple warfare,whtever news comes from there will be unusual too.we hafto understand that.
Thank you!
 
Alright, for the sake of advancing this discussion, lets move back to Swat. The issue of 'revolutions' and such while quite interesting is obviously off topic.

Lal Masjid is over and done with, and we obviously have a raging insurgency on our hands that needs to be dealt with. I believe Pashtun has quite clearly stated that he does not support the people burning down schools or slaughtering civilians and soldiers alike. Where I woudl like him to clarify is whether he considers the TTP (Swat) own statements accepting responsibility for these actions and issuing Fatwa's banning education for girls as evidence that along with foreigners, we have local people from Swat and FATA who are involved in these heinous acts - Mullah Fazlullah and his spokesman Muslim Khan being part of the leadership.

I am less certain of Anwar2's opposition to these crazed extremists, and that is more worrying given his statement of having served in the military, since it might indicate that some in the officer class are all to willing to harbor sentiments supporting an overthrow of the State (treason) by gun toting extremists, in pursuit of some Utopian (in their minds) Khilafat.

But the point here is this, the US presence in Afghanistan has nothign to do with Mullah FM, in terms of his goals. Unlike Mullah Nazir, Gul Bahadur, Haqqani etc. Mullah FM is not waging a jihad against occupation - his goal is to take control of the Swat valley and impose his medieval mindset on the people there, and possibly extend it from there to other parts of Pakistan.

There is no question then that this is a challenge to Pakistan from within Pakistan (no matter who might be supplying him or supporting him externally) and it needs to be met. This is not therefore about fighting the USWoT, it is about fighting the Pakistani War on Terror. There should be no question about the legitimacy of the fight in Swat and the need for the military to have our full support.

Criticize their tactics sure, criticize their failures , sure. But at the same time it needs to be constructive criticism. Assad is correct in that he has chewed out the PA, here and on other forums, for appearing to capitulate in front of the militants, especially when we were signing peace deals with them, after the deals had failed the first time. But he has also argued for the Army to take a more aggressive CI position, and not asked for the Taliban to be allowed to run riot in the face of perceived failures.

So criticize the tactics all you want, but it shoudl be clear that the Taliban are not going to be allowed to take control of our land and subjugate our people, and to that end even poor tactics are better than no opposition at all.
right now, I would criticize the lack of intel in there areas, and the lack of direct "surgical" type operations to cut off militants from their supply lines. it's quite apparent some people have never heard of satellite imagery before, I could have sworn hearing about China sharing their military satellite images with Pakistan. either that was just a baseless rumor, or our planners simply don't know how to analyze satellite images.

if we have access to satellite images in realtime, it would just be a matter of coordinating airstrikes on militant groups congregating whereever they are. there have to be bases out there, and although militants enter and enforce in the city, they still have to go back to regroup and get supplies. instead of focusing on militants in the city, make sure you destroy their supply lines from their bases.

now, let's say there are civilians living near the militants-since they're too afraid to let their wives and children out of their sight when at risk of an airstrike-we could always rely on surgical strikes with troops or special forces with helicopter support. we can conduct night raids, using night vision goggles. now, let's say we don't have satellite imagery in realtime, what can we do without intel from above?

we still have plenty of UAV's that are cheaply and easily available through our own indigenous suppliers. the air force has only acquire a few Falco UAV's, while the army has acquired a few LUNA UAV's from Germany at ridiculous prices. although we could use these for more complex imagery intel gathering, we can't use them for prolonged periods. Instead of wasting so much money acquiring UAV's from foreign companies, we can just acquire our own indigenous UAV's in mass. if Pakistani UAV's are good enough for border patrol and other uses for Austrailia, Spain, UAE, and even the United States, I see no reason why they aren't good enough for the Pakistani army. that is unless, we feel that indigenously built military equipment is inferior to "gora teknology".

we can use UAV's as a cheaper alternative for satellite imagery-which is turning out to be the case with all western countries, UAV's are supplying cheaper images in realtime as compared to satellite imagery. instead of reconnaisance by aircraft sorties and wasting fuel, we can acquire cheap UAV's to gather intel. each unit of troops-if we organize groups of 50-100 soldiers- can have cheap tactical UAV support for intel gathering to hunt these militants down. if the military is truly intent on going through RMA and become a net-centric force, they're doing a very bad job at it with troops in the tribal areas running around without bullet proof vests and driving Toyota pickup trucks. Yet, I can see that some of the idiots conducting these operations feel that firing artillery shells off into the mountains is good enough to vanquish the militants.

anyways, the armed forces only find Swat and FM Mullah as a problem. this operation could have ended a long time ago, with less civilian casualties if ANP hadn't pushed for a peace deal. of course, the army in all of their wisdom feel that they should "genuinely" stay away from politics and let Zardari and the awam sort out their own differences. with that said, the military is not going to launch operations against groups that avoid conflict on Pakistani soil. unfortunately, any commander that signs a peace deal with the army will become a victim of predator drone strikes.
 
Where I woudl like him to clarify is whether he considers the TTP (Swat) own statements accepting responsibility for these actions and issuing Fatwa's banning education for girls as evidence that along with foreigners, we have local people from Swat and FATA who are involved in these heinous acts - Mullah Fazlullah and his spokesman Muslim Khan being part of the leadership.

I didn't quiet get. What leadership? or are you asking if there are locals involved or not?

But the point here is this, the US presence in Afghanistan has nothign to do with Mullah FM, in terms of his goals. Unlike Mullah Nazir, Gul Bahadur, Haqqani etc. Mullah FM is not waging a jihad against occupation - his goal is to take control of the Swat valley and impose his medieval mindset on the people there, and possibly extend it from there to other parts of Pakistan.

My point is, it has everything to do with WoT. It provided every opportunity to elements within and from outside, to exploit our involvement in WoT (pushing army into civilian areas as per the design to create gap between the civilian society and armed forces).

Or else, why there was no militancy until recently in Swat? There had been absolutely no problems in Bajaur, until a suspected drone attack on Madrassah killed 80 students, that to hide the attack Musharraf said he attacked them as they were "terrorists". Most students were under 16. They were sleeping in their school when the attack took place. It wasn't even like LM. They had nothing to do with anything. They threatened nobody. They were just there to learn. so that attack was on the pretext of WoT. Nothing more nothing less.

And even after that attack, no problem was there, just a few protests (since 80 families lost their loved ones who were gone for learning), few shots fired here n there, but no major incident at all, until Army decided to invade bajaur and we all know how U.S. constantly pushed army to control Bajaur until then (that was not even out of control) and when bajaur was wrecked, while fighting the WoT, the things started to get messy in Swat. Because a lot of different groups (for their own agendas) got an opportunity to exploit the situation.

So there's no argument on this that the wreck in our country is not because of WoT. From every angle you look at it (going back to the core of the problem, not looking at the situation from the middle of the events), it's our invovlement with WoT, that is causing us such a grief that the country is in shambles, economically and security wise.

There is no question then that this is a challenge to Pakistan from within Pakistan (no matter who might be supplying him or supporting him externally) and it needs to be met. This is not therefore about fighting the USWoT, it is about fighting the Pakistani War on Terror. There should be no question about the legitimacy of the fight in Swat and the need for the military to have our full support.

There was no challenge, until we decided to take part in WoT to invade our own lands on becoming part n parcel of U.S. WoT. Fazullulah et al. existed long before that and will possibly be there long after today. They were not threatneing people, they had no control over the valley (except few far flung villages), they did not fire a shot at any police station, they did not issue any fatwas against girls education, they did not blew any school, they did not slay any security officer, they did not challenge the govt. writ - all for being there for years.

Then why do you think they all of a sudden decided to go that route?

Criticize their tactics sure, criticize their failures , sure. But at the same time it needs to be constructive criticism. Assad is correct in that he has chewed out the PA, here and on other forums, for appearing to capitulate in front of the militants, especially when we were signing peace deals with them, after the deals had failed the first time. But he has also argued for the Army to take a more aggressive CI position, and not asked for the Taliban to be allowed to run riot in the face of perceived failures.

And that's what I am doing. Criticising the tactics. The heavy handedness. The strategy, that miserablly failed. I never said they should withdraw from Swat. I never said they should not deal with the miscreants. All I questioned is the ruthless heavyhandedness strategy against scattered enemy.

I mean if you have a termite problem in your home, what do you do? put a tactical trap for them or burn down the entire house?

The militants in swat are not holed up in one location. They are dispersed in entire area. And hence the collective punishment is a total failure, rather it damaged the livlihood and lives of every single person.

And on top of that, there's a perception on the ground that Fazullulah is a military's man. He was seen many times with american/pakistani officials holding meetings in Serena. most of his fighters are usually given safe passages, when people provide information to the army about the fighters location. When their caravans are passing, they are not attacked etc. etc.

It's seems like Military acts against them when it feels like and the way it feels like. E.g. Military asked Pir Sameeullah to raise a Lashkar and they will support him. He did and clashed with militants. Military watched from the sidelines, while he was killed and his body hung from the tree. While at the sametime, a densly populated city of charbagh was bombarded, dozens of women and children were killed by shells, and when people asked why, they said they had intel there were militants there.

So people have this perception that Military and Militants are one and its just a controlled chaos. And hence our area leaders (such as Afzal khan Lala) have met with General Kiyani and have clearly told him about this perception on ground and aske dhim to do something about it to eradicate that perception.

So criticize the tactics all you want, but it shoudl be clear that the Taliban are not going to be allowed to take control of our land and subjugate our people, and to that end even poor tactics are better than no opposition at all.

I wish they will not be allowed. But I can tell you right now - I see a deal will be struck on give n take bases and they will prevail. They will be called Patriots again, and the army will move out and end the operation as soon (whatever) objective they have is accomplished (whether it's making america happy to show we are fighting the WoT in our own lands, or cashing in the opportunity to milk the cow).

The deals will be struck again and that will createa massive gap that if we have to strike a deal, why did we destroyed everything in the first place. But that's far fetched for now since we don't know what future strategy is of army, as clearly in two years they couldn't control the militancy rather increased it from Matta to entire Swat and there are hints now that new strategy is being planned to resolve the issue within weeks (that they couldn't resovle in two years).
 
"it's our invovlement with WoT, that is causing us such a grief that the country is in shambles, economically and security wise."

occasionally pashtun you make perfect sense.

so logically you wouldnt want any part of pakistan to be a sanctuary for terrorist groups directed at third countries.

id like you to explain to me what the arabs and uzbeks and chechens are doing on your territory.

its the pashtuns its the pakistanis who pay the price. that is because you are pawns.
 

Swat: the other view


By Syed Irfan Ashraf
February 05, 2009


THE ongoing insurgency in Swat has spawned a heated debate in the media. For some it is a class war between the landless and the land-owning elite.

Others believe it to be a global jihadist agenda spearheaded by rigid Al Qaeda-led Wahabi elements. Here it is important to add personal journalistic observations to help understand another dimension to the story of Swat where negligence on the part of state institutions, parochial political interests and the naiveté of the rural folk have given birth to a militant culture that thrives on vandalism, brutality and anarchy.

In June 2007, while in Swat, it was suggested that I interview Maulana Fazlullah because of his increasing popularity. But at that time many considered him to be just another black-turbaned cleric riding on horseback to preach Stone Age values. In fact, the firebrand Fazlullah was getting as popular as US radio priest Father Coughlin who shot to fame in the early 1930s. Locally known as ‘Redoo Mullah’ (Maulana Radio) at that time, Fazlullah spat fire and venom on the state’s policies, condemning every liberal institution. His campaign for establishing a madressah in Swat was at its peak. Naïve women generously donated jewellery and equally naïve men their hard cash, not knowing how dearly they would pay for their endeavours in the days to come.

Visiting Swat again in early July, I found some 40 cleric-owned FM channels working in a radius of between 10 to 40 kilometres. Maulana Fazlullah was on top of his game. His expert oratory skills made him the most popular radio cleric. One wondered how a local mullah and school and madressah dropout used the same propaganda techniques that were developed in 1818 after extensive research by the Creel Committee members in the US and used to lethal effect by the Allied forces against Germany. Youngsters sat outside their roadside houses enjoying his state-bashing sermons.

It was disturbing to note that the state authorities let this mess go unchecked. Even more bizarre was the absence of any liberal source of entertainment to offset the ongoing propaganda. This was partly explained when a local tailor Iqbal Ali told me about the FM device he had purchased for entertainment. Predictably, Iqbal started receiving threatening calls. Unexpectedly, some officials politely advised him to withdraw in favour of the clerics. Similarly, an Afghan cleric had also launched an FM station in the vicinity of Tehsil Matta and used to broadcast sermons against Fazlullah. His pupil later revealed that in the last call he received from his teacher, the latter was desperately crying for help, following which he disappeared.

At that time, everything in Swat revolved around Fazlullah. It seemed that strong forces were imposing a militant mindset on the people of Swat, going about this job in an organised fashion. In this strategy, the MMA provincial government could not escape blame for offering Swat on a platter to the militants.

One by one anti-Fazlullah officials were replaced by more docile ones. The then district coordination officer had the reputation of being an ‘official Talib’. One MMA minister from Swat said, “Fazlullah is doing exactly what we want but cannot do.” Besides MMA, a federal minister and Musharraf aide sent rice-filled begs to Imam Dheri where Fazlullah was based. Similarly, local influential figures also tried to woo Fazlullah by sending material for the construction of his seminary.

This approach disillusioned Swat’s liberal circles who got the impression that all developments in Swat were part of a larger game plan and the northwestern terrains of Gut and Peuchar were the epicentre of the militants’ network. Conspiracy theories have it that Sufi Mohammad-led Tehrik-i-Nifaz-i-Shariat-i-Mohammadi activists have been living in this terrain since 1995 when they were flushed out from Swat. One TNSM leader accepted that the area had been used for jihadi activities and ‘mujahideen’ in the past lived in the Osheri Dara near Peuchar. They declared Peuchar a paradise for militants. Denizens of Peuchar also feared that their area is important because of its strategic depth and access to Afghanistan via the inaccessible thick-forested mountains bordering the Kunar province of Afghanistan.

Today, it is not unusual to find militants concentrated in the valleys carrying out successful raids in downtown Swat and also providing support to Baitullah-led Taliban in Bajaur and Mohmand Agencies via Lower Dir. However, it is hard to believe that state intelligence agencies were unable to understand the networking of the militants in Peuchar, something the common people feared much before the military operation.

To record Fazlullah’s first-ever, on-camera interview, I reached Imam Dheri on July 6, 2007. In the presence of his shura member Muslim Khan, I found Fazlullah unfolding his vision for Swat. It was hard to accept it then, but now like other Swatis I believe him. To my question about the future of Swat, he replied, “I see that whatever the [Musharraf] government is doing in Swat is utter failure. It is possible that these policies might lead to his downfall soon. This does not mean the end of a government and the start of another one but this would be the end of the state itself.” He added, “If force is used against us, then this time the case will be different from Jamia Hafsa. There were children locked inside the four walls there, but we have trained people — and mountains also. We surely will be a hard nut for the state to crack.”

Fazlullah did not stop here. He warned the high-ups, “Once I am killed, or disappear or run away from here it will be hard to control the situation.” When Fazlullah was threatening the state and government, his words were full of conviction as if they were part of a written script.

A leaf from the life history of Miangul Jehanzeb recorded by Fredrik Barth in his book The Last Wali of Swat is relevant even today. The book quotes Miangul Jehanzeb as saying: “My father (Abdul Wadood alias Baacha sahib) always used to tell me that a pir (religious leader) and a ruler cannot last together. So one, and one only, should be the ruler.

And if you [Miangul Jehanzeb] are the ruler, you have to limit the influence of the pir and if you cannot remove his influence, you can at least remove him. When he created the state, he chased out all those pirs who used to exercise political influence over the people.”
 
A latest piece of news from swat;

Suicide attack at Mingora police station, dozen injured
Updated at: 2345 PST, Thursday, February 05, 2009
MINGORA: At least 12 policemen were injured when a suicide bomber rammed his explosive-laden vehicle into a police station in Mangora on Thursday.

Out of 12 injured, six are said to be in critical condition, sources said.

According to sources, three rockets were also fired at the police station.

On the other hand, the administration of Saidu Sharif Hospital has refused to send the ambulance to the blast place.
Suicide attack at Mingora police station, dozen injured

How tough can this get for our brave security ppl.Its really sad.God help them!
 
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The other side to our PAs' operation in Swat;

Diary of a Pakistani schoolgirl (iii)
(a seventh grader from swat)

MONDAY 26 JANUARY: HELICOPTER TOFFEES

I woke to the roar of heavy artillery fire early in the morning. Earlier we were afraid of the noise of helicopters and now the artillery. I remember the first time when helicopters flew over our house on the start of an operation. We got so scared that we hid. All the children in my neighbourhood were also very scared.

One day toffees were thrown from the helicopters and this continued for some time. Now whenever we hear the choppers flying we run out and wait for the toffees but it does not happen anymore. A while back my father gave us the good news that he was taking all of us to Islamabad tomorrow. We are very happy.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Diary of a Pakistani schoolgirl (iii)

:pakistan:
 
Hello Orion, thanks for your reply. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your PoV and way of putting it in words. Here's what I wanted to add/comment on some stuff.

I dont know y ur only looking at half the picture!
1.TNSM renounces militancy; Sufi Mohammad freed
TNSM renounces militancy; Sufi Mohammad freed -DAWN - Top Stories; April 22, 2008
2.The TTS parted its ways from TSNM of Sufi Mohammad as the later refused to launch a violent movement for enforcement of Sharia’h in the region. The TNSM has reportedly opposed the TTS warning too.Tehrik-e-Taliban Swat (SST) led by Maulvi Fazlullah, a splinter faction of Tehrik Nifaz-e-Sharia’h Mohammadi (TNSM) of Sufi Mohammad..WEEKLY PULSE
3.In this context, the TNSM’s role in the ongoing Swat crisis is intriguing. Its founder, Maulana Sufi Muhammad, who is also the father-in-law of Maulana Fazlullah, has distanced himself from the happenings in Swat and expelled Fazlullah from his organization.
http://san-pips.com/PIPS-SAN-Files/SAN-Home/SAN-PAK-Article7/San-Main-A7-D.htm
Also reinforced by the ANP info minister (in the video link u provided) that until now he has abided by the agreement.My info stands validated.
Beg to differ again;

My mistake, I should have mentioned that and then in that context I should have said that why Sufi is supporting FM. See this is officially painted stance of Sufi/GoP and yup, thats all nice n dandy, if one is to only believe in what he/she reads.

As a matter of fact, its widely believed in the closed quarters that Sufi is the main strategist for FM. He is sort of a screensaver for the crimes of FM (or who ever is supporting them). If Sufi is to come aggressive, he'd lose the opportunity to achieve what he started back in those days. So it's like a political move, by saying I renounced the violence and implementation of shariah and renouncing the actions of FM.

If that was case, he is useless to FM and FM would have never secured his release. He didn't secure Sufi's release only to have him renounce his violence and go against him, that he had to form TTS instead of TNSM that he was part of, you know. It's Sufi's political stunt nothing more. He is as much involved in it, as much one can think of. He still vows for Shariah Nizam, and if you'd remember back in october he refused the Govt. proposed Nizam-e-Adl and said he would only wants full sharia (true shariah, as he calls it). TNSM chief rejects Nizam-e-Adl Regulation, wants ‘real Shariah’

In the same article he said "Sufi said he would visit Swat for convincing militants to abandon militancy after the implementation of Shariah."

You see 'after implementation of Shariah' here... why not before? That's the support right there. His renouncing violence or distancing himself from FM is simply a political stunt. One can safely believe that he is the strategist.

Since FM himself is a petty criminal (if I'd be so generous to alot him some credibility), that's why we all are amazed, who is doing the strategies for him? who is teaching him how to fight? who is planning his moves that the entire GoP and PA could not handle him for 2 years, yet increased his power and grip on the valley.

So certainly, someone (whoever it is) is running the show that is why he is still out there, roaming freely, holding press conferences, running his radio untraceable, and moreover able to pull stunts (blowing things around) in tough curfews where even children are shot at if they show up in their windows.

The truce was broken twice by fazllulah and not the gop;
1st signed in may 2007..ended with the beheadings of two policemen,4 mnths later,post the LM siege,when fazllulah declared(revenge)'jihad' on Pakistan until shariah reaches islamabad!
2nd in may 2008,this time 15 point deal,ends two months later around the 8th of july again with an ambush on 4 policemen in peshawar.
"The Swat agreement is scrapped as the militants have (continued) their attacks on security forces," said Rahman Malik, an adviser to Pakistan's prime minister. Malik's statement comes after four policemen were killed in an ambush in the provincial capital of Peshawar.
Pakistan's Swat peace agreement in the crossfire - The Long War JournalPakistani government inks peace deal with Swat Taliban - The Long War Journal
Even if that minister was correct (Various reports point otherwise),its obvious the TTS broke the truce first.The arrested militant was beitullah's aide,not TTS,as the minster puts it he was released later,didnt stop the violence!

To begin with, TTP is join venture of all these small little parties. In fact Fazullulah is headstrong on Baitullah and have supported him instead of baitullah supporting FM. And the peace deal was very clear, no person from TTP will be touched (not TTS, but all the groups coming under umbrella of TTP). And when Fed. Govt. captured the leader in Hangu (not even in FATA, but Hangu), it was a breach of truce deal from the GoP side (not provincial side, because Prov. govt. accuses GoP for not supporting them in the truce deal by making such incursions inside provincial area that ruined the truce).

So after that, even if they let go of the captured leader, it meant nothing to TTP establishment, as the truce was broken by GoP.

And I am not sure which incident of 2007 are you talking bout. Would you shed some more light on it perhaps? which group was involved at that time, what was the timing, whether TTP TTS came together, what were the circumstances etc. Because I know for sure that none of the peace deals were broken by the militants, rather they were pushed around by the GoP (why, we don't know).

As I remember one of FM's speeches, when his fighters were attacked while under the negotiations when he said he wont attack until he finds out if deals are made or not on mutual conscent, and yet hsi fighters were attacked, by jeorpodizing the deal and renewing the violence.

ur only reafirming wht I said before.btw sufi mhd is based in tirimgarha,dir.The writ of the gov is maintained there,as per the deal.

There was no deal about Dir. People of Dir have strictly refused Army to internvene in their matter and said they will take care of it and they did (just as Kohistan, Buner, Shangla Par, Che Kesar, etc.).

E.g. watch this video - Capital Talk - 18 September 2008 | pkpolitics.com

It's basically about Bajaur dignitaries questioning the heavy handedness of Army, but there's an MNA from Dir, who is confirming that Dir didn't take help of the military to control the militancy. So there was no deal with Sufi that he wont disturb Dir. If they can, they will, trust me, they just can't because there's no military, police etc. in Dir, hence nothing is challenged there, just as Kohistan, Buner and other areas.

And I would think 10 times before believing in what Rahman Malik says. I have never seen an incredibly uncredible man like him before.

Hot spots of TTS.Elections were held post the first phase of the operation.Fazllulah was badly defeated then.90% Swat under GOP.Enter the new gov,a subsequent peace deal,gives them two mnths to regroup and the show starts again!

Well I beg to differ, he wasn't defeated during that time. He was openly defiant, sending all sorts of messages, attacking matta left n right, blowing up Sangota and Kaanju at will.

If he was defeated 90%, easily within few months of operation, then how come just two months were enough for him to regroup and give a serious headache to Police, F.C. and Active Military for over a year now? The equation of timeframe is little off in my opinion.

So trust me, it's a sham that he took that time to regroup. In fact, in the time of truce, Army never left, it was very much there, just not conducting operation and was only firing when fired at (so to speak). This is why the question arises, how FM is allowed to get everything done with few thousand untrained (or poorly trained) men with AK47s, thumbing his nose (apparently) at one of the world's finest armies that have deployed over 40,000 troops alone in swat.

Don't you smell something fishy?

if u refer to bajaur or khar,it had to be done to avoid ambushes,since u wont take my word here's frm the horses' mouth You have to either occupy or remove the structures," says one soldier, "otherwise the militants will return to them once we've left." read complete here
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Crucial battle on Pakistan's frontline

yes indeed I was talking about Bajaur (Khar is the main city there, quiet far from the Afghan border). And yes I read the army's excuse of flattening the villages so they can see. They have burned all our crops and cut down all our trees in Swat, where they are camped, I know very well they want to have sight.

But is this a strategy? destroy everything of your own people in order to protect them? What kind of protection is that? That's why I oppose this operational strategy. It has destroyed our citizens livlihood. They are very poor people, they are not able to re-build those simple mud houses that had been razed in thousands. Entire villages have been flattened, all of it. All markets have been brought down in Khar. for what? protect the citizens?

This is what your provided link from Sulekha says:

"In the meantime, the Pakistani army has used helicopter gunships and fighter jets to blast entire villages in Bajur to rubble, driving 250,000 tribesmen out of their homes"

That's just a small example. If you visit bajaur. It's almost flattened and over half a million made refugees, and what, when they will come back, will come back to?

Who will build their houses? who will pay for the damages to the civilian infrastructure that took 60 years to build (and you know that its nothing more than a basic infrastructure that took us 60 years to build in the first place)? Why, because Army wanted to secure themselves as they couldn't see who is shooting at them? What kind of strategy that would be that they can't deal with a guerrilla warfare in urban area?

I thought Army secures the property and lives of the people of the country they are recruited to defend. Not the other way around (people giving their lives, homs, properties, livlihoods, to protect the army).

Hence the strategy was a total catestrophy. The half a million people who were first displaced from their homes, now have no homes. They are not rich people. They are not middle class. They are not lower class. These people live under the poverty lines and have built these houses, markets and all God knows how. All is gone.

How would we do the damage control now? Where will be put the people whom houses we have razed, in fact entire villages, whatever infrastructure they had, is gone. What busineses they could run form markets, are gone, along the markets.

Who will feed them? Who will provide them shelters? We all know the earth Quake people, for whom we got billions, are still crying, yet something that we unnaturally raised due to our faulty strategies.

In the case of swat there r pitched battles.I wish the PA could flatten mountains,it probably would have made the task much easier!
most of the villigers,like i repeated b4 get caught in the crossfire.its sad really,but they were being butchered by tts as well.atleast now someone's fighting back.

First of all, TTS does not butcher people just for the heck of it. I have to come across with one incident where they had shed a blood without a cause (tho it depends on the cause as well) but regardless, they know that if they will butcher people just like that, they will never be able to survive or gain support from locals. Thats for a fact.

The bodies of certain common people that are usually found in the streets and all, are basically local people settling their enmities. Farmers against the landlords, old enmities being sorted out, etc. etc. That's a ground fact.

And that happened because operation wrecked havoc and anarchy in the area and gave a chance to many people to settle their disputes and then robbers, gangsters, thiefs, getting their pockets filled.

As a matter of fact, TTS is super quick in providing justice to ppl on (I hate to admit) very fair bases. Let me give you an example. A guy from our town (Mingawara) went to local authorities to ask them to have this "qabza-group" removed from his land that is only source of his income. Local authorities (police etc.) told him army is incharge, they can't do anything. He went to Army, army refused that it can't help. He went to TTS, within 2 hours, he got his land back with an appology from the people holding it.

Similarly, there are many things I can tell you that TTS is doing for the people that the authorities should be taking care of. So trust me, TTS is not butchering anyone, rather helping people to gain more and more support against the failed govt. and a failed military operation that people already are questioning.

swat is destined to be the talibans ultimate fighting ground,and to spread their ideology,thanks to the difficult terrain and its proximity to islamabad.

Well thats not really a destiny. The other side of the story, Swat is the shortest possible route between China and Afghansitan through Bishaam at silk route. China recently built that road wider and with material that made me question if it will be used for tanks in future or what. There are parts of the road, that are so straight between mountains that it almost look like a landing strip. The road also connects to Galiyat to Islamabad.

The rumour has it, in the event of NWFP falling to americans, that area is being prepared for Chinese armies to move in to protect their borders. So it's not really a destiny, it's a preplanned thing, if one is to kick in the conspiracy theories bucket.

I do not support a dialogue alone,that would only indicate a loosing grip on the valley.more troop movement and a massive operation launched backed by ssg and intelligence network and a political,civilian backup.I hope.

Totally agree with that (and that is why I am here to raise this concern of aerial bombardment and tanks shelling, which had been miserablly failed and lost the people's support as well). If you show it to the people that you are there to protect them (not destroy their properties and lives), they will support you through and through.

So yes, it's deffinately SSG and intelligence network job. Absolutely.

Paste sources plz.it depends if these interviews were conducted during the peace deals or after.The deals r interesting too..a large part unknown!

The sources regarding his meetings with americans etc. in serena hotel, I probably would take ever to find the lectur eof Zaid hamid by re-watching every one of them to see where he quoted that, but here are some other sources as well: Shireen Niazi (defense analyst) article stating:

"A look at the Serena Hotel, Swat's guest book for the last two years, will reveal interesting information especially regarding the Americans who visited there dressed as locals, speaking Pushto (a point that had been made in an earlier column), and were in touch with Fazlullah."
Game Is Over For RAW, CIA & Their Collaborators In Zardari Govt

And here's Tariq Ali's take on it:

"while US intelligence experts regularly check into the Serena hotel in Swat to meet Maulana Fazlullah, a local pro-Taliban leader."
My voice Pakistan forum, Casualties of another war by Tariq Ali

i understand the frustration but i hope not...there r two examples to go by,no wonder an accelaerated operation has been launched but we can only hope and pray that this time round the army suceeds.

We can only hope.

if there has to be a deal it should be from a point of strength,not weakness as the prev were.
I dont think PA itself gained anything more than alot of backlash,most of it uncalled for.Our 'aid ' has been less than required.Frankly even if didnt receive it anymore...it wont make extremism or the likes of fazllulah disappear.He is our very own nightmare.Eliminating these goons is equally imp for us!

Absolutely. Thats my point. we gained absolutely nothing by pushing our armies to fight someone else' war for little goodies (that went to someone else pocket anyway). But the confusion regarding this entire thing is severe. Who is who, nobody can tell. And I certainly believe PA is not eliminating them, as it's not hard at all to eliminate them. they will strike deals with them, I can see it. That is why I believe there's some sort of bigger game being played, tho for what? I can only use my imaginations.

Incorrect.only till end of dec 2008,a third of the population had migrated,and recently there r thousands moving to safer places.
U wil find this in the above links ive posted
Officials estimate that up to a third of Swat's 1.5 million people had already left the area uptill dec 2008.
around 20,000 civilians have fled pitched battles in a week.Pakistan 'kills 35 militants', thousands flee Swat - Yahoo! News
U can find a latest video on aljazeera as well.

Yes certainly, Media has been exagarating it. I am from the area and I maintain 5 houses, 3 in swat and 2 in Peshawar. I can tell you from right now, the only people who migrated (well in thousands but way less than reported in the meda) are those who could afford, or have places to go. That's about it.

People saw Bajaur refugees status when many died out of cold, hunger and deseases being refugees and yet Govt. could not provide for them as promised for those refugees it drove out for operation. So the ground reality is, people are scared to believe in govt. and hence they are not becoming refugees, except those who can afford. Everyone else, only moves out from the area to adjacet village, while the operation goes on, and then moves back in to the rubbles of their houses.

I dont know y u find this fact to be so funny.have a read below.its been a part of afghan warfare as well.
Pakistan steps up its offensive against militants - Sulekha.com News

It is funny if you have gone to Bajaur and then beleive in the reports that tunnels are dug. There's no way, no machinery in the world, can dig tunnels as long as media try to project it. The terrain is cruel. it's a series of mountains, not mud moutains, but dry stone mountains. And Khar is very far from Afghanistan. a tunnel from Afghan border to Khar, will be a miracle.

The article you provided says this:

"That's another cave. The tunnel runs from here, 100 meters to there."

More caves lie at the end of a 20-foot-deep (6.1-meter-deep), narrow mud staircase barely wide enough for a thin person."


That's how big the tunnels can be dug there. The original tunnels that were used by Pakistan to supply mujahideen in Soviet era, should have been already in control and or destroyed as they were between the two borders, not running from the cities to border (it's impossible to dig tunnels that long there in the mountains, except short ones).

In anywhichway, destroyign a 100 meter long tunnel or a 20 ft. wide cave, should not result in wiping the village. It means, there's something wrong in the strategy, or they don't care at all about people, it was just them against everyone else.

And they learned that these 'muslim' breathren will not bat an eyelash before they decaptitate them and parade in the markets of Mingora! I donot class these fanatics as muslims or our brothers!

Of course not. But who are these people? You must understand that there are several groups involved in that area. Everyone having their own agenda. Foreigners (RAW/Mossad backed militants) are there too. Yet all of them are using talebans name to confuse the issue. So nobody knows who they were, who were doing these beheadings, etc. and engaging military, while claming to tbe from TTP, as several times, FM et al. refused to be carrying many different ops. Blowing up PTDC hotel in malam Jabba is one of them and the killings of several people found in the fields etc. is another.

so this confusion is clearly created by someone who have some sort of objectives behind this military operation. One being engaging military with civilian society to create a gap between the two. The other being top brass pushing the army on behest of U.S. pretext of WoT for their petty interests. Both pointing towards one thing, someone engaging the military with civilian society to create this gap between two (like they did with saddam hussain, and talebans, by first supporting them and engaging them with civilians, then telling civilians we will liberate you from the so called rulers).


Invasions?Things detoriated post the peacedeals,u will see from the above reports.corruption in our civilian institutes has never let anything develop.We have our chance now,but its sad to see such clueless gov officials as those ministers in the video link.Hell even ppl on these forum can give better ideas to bring abt civilian progress in Swat!

Oh absolutely agree, but the point is, nothing works. The civilian institutes blame Military and Military blames civilian institutes. So whats the solution? who to blame being a neutral person? since people inclining towards military would take their side and those inclining towards politicians will take their side. Where's the equation, the neutral approach? who is at fault? and how to fix it?

R u sure the word he used was 'intervene'?again id prefer a link to that piece of news.

Well the article really used the term interventions and that's how its been put:

"Kayani insists he's a committed democrat, but he nevertheless argues that military interventions (there have been four since independence 61 years ago) are sometimes necessary to maintain Pakistan's stability. He likens coups to temporary bypasses that are created when a bridge collapses on democracy's highway. After the bridge is repaired, he says, then there's no longer any need for the detour."
The Newsweek 50: Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani | Newsweek The Global Elite | Newsweek.com

It was sidely reported on pakistani media as well, using the term intervention in english and "mudakhalat" in urdu media outlets.

I would have said bravo to that stand,only that i dont agree.Would u rather languish at the will of the fanatics?!

I would languish on the wills of anybody than bowing my head on enemy's feet and live without a dignity and being bitchslapped around the globe by every single ton dick or harry as a beggers are not choosers (on an argument that US pays us so we can't fight back). I am raised to live as a free person, with a dignified and honourable life for myself and for my country, even if I have to lose my lifeto preserve the dignity of my nation.

It further confuses when we see that when our side of the border isbreached, then it's nothing, we can't fight, we have no means to fight, we can't match the enemy, blah blah blah, but when eastern side of the border is under tension, the entire army is ready to take on 10 times more stronger enemy, threatneing to nuke, and making all sorts of claims that it will be in no time that we will beat the 10 times bigger army and knock some sense in them.

Perhaps these are the events that make people think that why there are dual standards. They say is it the life of the tribal people worth nothing than a collateral damage, while in the east it becomes life n death and dignity and honour problem even if India raises an eye brow? Or is it because there is some sort of a covert deal struck between top military brass and america to play this drama on western border under the pretext of WoT to justify and legitimize American occupation and advances, while renting our army to them for petty self interests.

You see, all kinds of things comes up in mind of the people when people see how the things are dealt on the ground.

Sir while I understand that high collateral damage is not acceptable,it will decrease with the ppl leaving for safer places,we hafto understand that they only way forward is through maximum possible elimination of these parallel forces.Its not simple warfare,whtever news comes from there will be unusual too.we hafto understand that.
Thank you

And where do you want them to go? To whom? how would they feed themselves? hide under which shelters?

And I agree it's not a simple warfare, but the strategy has been adapated is very simple - Bomb everything in the sight. Sure, you can understand that, but ask those who are living under those conditions, whether they will understand or not. And may God never bring this upon you, but you don't know how a person feels when he sees his entire family perished in minutes by tank shells or Fighter Jets that are suppose to be for protecting him... there's no understanding on his or people losing loved ones, in this regard.

Therefore the strategy should change at once to surgical operation, as you said, SSG + massive intel network. Nothing else is going to work but would exactly do what the enemy wants, create massive gap between armed forces and civilian society, with every bomb they drop.

Thank you for your time and understanding. :pakistan:
 
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"it's our invovlement with WoT, that is causing us such a grief that the country is in shambles, economically and security wise."

occasionally pashtun you make perfect sense.

so logically you wouldnt want any part of pakistan to be a sanctuary for terrorist groups directed at third countries.

No I don't want my country or individuals, to be accomplice in any kind of terror activites, be it supporting the states that perpetrates terror under the sham of reacting to terror (e.g. American occupation of Afghanistan).

id like you to explain to me what the arabs and uzbeks and chechens are doing on your territory.

They were broguht by your country to defeat Soviets, so you can become the sole super power.

its the pashtuns its the pakistanis who pay the price. that is because you are pawns.

Well it's a vicious cycle, today we are paying for your crimes, tomorrow you will pay for your crimes. History has it, no imperial power ever lived for ever. Let's not call it a day Señor. We have still a long way to go.
 
Pashtun two things i would like to get very clear answers to;
1.between fazllulah(ttp),the GOP n the Pa who would you trust most to handle the situation in swat?
i know wht u will say abt the pa,but anyway.
2.do u advocate the rule of shariah(ttp style) in swat and other areas?
I'll answer ur post later (im tired now,sorry).very simple answers plz,just want to be clear abt ur stand.
Thanks!
 
Pashtun two things i would like to get very clear answers to;
1.between fazllulah(ttp),the GOP n the Pa who would you trust most to handle the situation in swat? i know wht u will say abt the pa,but anyway.

Certainly not FM. Doesn't matter who he is (supported by Military as people's perception, supported by foreigners as some say, or even if he acts on his own) not him/them.

But the representatives of the people (Civilian institutions), that can include Provincial Govt. backed by GoP and other political parties holding stake in the nation as well as PA help in tactical/surgical operation and for Intel as deem neccessary by the Prov. Govt/Representatives of civilian society.

2.do u advocate the rule of shariah(ttp style) in swat and other areas?
I'll answer ur post later (im tired now,sorry).very simple answers plz,just want to be clear abt ur stand.

No. Never.

And that's ok, take your time, I am dead tired too and need to get some stuff done as well. Thanks!
 
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