What's new

Suu Kyi could be held guilty of crimes against humanity, says UN special envoy

The place Rohingya lives is far away from Chinese pipelines. You should worry more about Indian presence in MM than Rohingyas. Indians will make sure that Your presence in Rakhine is no more than a commercial venture. Thats why they put a counter project called Kaladan port.

What a crybaby you are LOL.

Enjoy losing....you got on your knees for a US intervention (remember you were salivating when it came up in some vague irrelevant way in a non-legislative discussion) by now and they didn't even lift one tiny finger your way.

Guess it turned out like your Aladdin skyscraper 100% guarantee project :P What a surprise.

What west can offer us to solve this issue?

Words and feelz.
 
.
u are completely misunderstand or purposely take other history called Kaman ethnic who is already recognized as our ethnic and yes they all are muslim too. their ancestors served as body guard of arakan kings with the help of Bengal sultans. the earliest thing which is mentioned about rohingya is in colonial era for migration of people from BoB as they need workers for their farms in arakan state.
No, you yourself are making mistakes on the chronology of Muslim migration to Arakan. Kamans are the descendants of those Muslim retinues who moved from Bengal in around 1657 CE when Shahjada (Prince) Shuja, who was the Subedar (Viceroy) of Bengal and the 2nd son of Emperor Shahjahan, fled to Arakan. Shuja was subsequently killed by the Arakanese King, but his retinues domiciled in Arakan and worked in the military.

But, the main group of Muslims themselves settled in Arakan in 1430 CE at the head of an expedition team under the exiled Buddhist King. The King was reinstated and the the retinues domiciled in Arakan. This group may have been mixed with other groups and now have renamed themselves Rohingya. In Bengal proper, there is no group who call themselves Rohingya.

But, read history. You will find all the Buddhist Kings after 1430 had Muslim names, although they were not Muslims. Why it was so? And why it was that the Bengali language was more developed at the Arakan Royal Court than it was in Bengal proper? When Gaur had Persian as the Court language, Arakan had Bengali. I can remember only two names in the Arakan Court. Poragol Khan and Chuti Khan who masterminded the development of Bengali.

Note, Arakan was not a part of Burma before sometime around 1780s. The British Indian govt joined Arakan with Burma for administrative purpose.
 
.
No, you yourself are making mistakes on the chronology of Muslim migration to Arakan. Kamans are the descendants of those Muslim retinues who moved from Bengal in around 1657 CE when Shahjada (Prince) Shuja, who was the Subedar (Viceroy) of Bengal and the 2nd son of Emperor Shahjahan, fled to Arakan. Shuja was subsequently killed by the Arakanese King, but his retinues domiciled in Arakan and worked in the military.

But, the main group of Muslims themselves settled in Arakan in 1430 CE at the head of an expedition team under the exiled Buddhist King. The King was reinstated and the the retinues domiciled in Arakan. This group may have been mixed with other groups and now have renamed themselves Rohingya. In Bengal proper, there is no group who call themselves Rohingya.

But, read history. You will find all the Buddhist Kings after 1430 had Muslim names, although they were not Muslims. Why it was so? And why it was that the Bengali language was more developed at the Arakan Royal Court than it was in Bengal proper? When Gaur had Persian as the Court language, Arakan had Bengali. I can remember only two names in the Arakan Court. Poragol Khan and Chuti Khan who masterminded the development of Bengali.

Note, Arakan was not a part of Burma before sometime around 1780s. The British Indian govt joined Arakan with Burma for administrative purpose.


Also, Arakan was the vassal state of the Bengal Sultanate for centuries. Mrauk U was a minting town of Bengali Taka back in the day. Their kings took up Persian titles, following the examples of the Bengal Sultanate, and the subsequent Mughal Subah of Bengal. The Arakan Kindgdom's court, had numerous Bengali poets and intellectuals, the most famous of them being Syed Alaol (from Fatwabad, Faridpur), Abdul Hakim (from Sandwip, Chittagong) and Daulat Qazi (from Raozan, Chittagong), who wrote mostly in Bengali, and occasionally in Persian. Not to mention, the countless Muslim ministers in the Arakan court.
 
Last edited:
.
Myanmar has similar issues in their northern regions with ethnic Chinese towns -- citizenship not given, militias created, sporadic fighting ensues. So far all China has done is ask all sides to de-escalate the conflict. Certainly no ideas about changing boundary lines.

Bangladesh crossing the boundary line into Myanmar would be an escalation -- this is counterproductive. Very likely, in the end, all sides will have to compromise. People who want to stay in Myanmar will need to assimilate into mainstream in exchange for citizenship. People who don't want to stay migrate to Bangladesh. I am sure China has given Myanmar some friendly advice but we can't coerce them.

Almost every country has some tribal discontent somewhere. Myanmar has a lot because of its history. Smashing the country into pieces like former Yugoslavia would truly create a humanitarian disaster on a much larger scale.

BD came into existence as well from a smashing/breaking environment...so their lot think its a one stop solution for everyone else (esp whoever is being "mean" to them at some current juncture). But most everyone else knows better.

So obviously for BD ppl types... Cameroon also needs to be broken apart into pieces:


@Aung Zaya check out the parallels...
 
. .
Fascinating find I must admit, political tensions stemmed from the use of a certain colonial language.

Thats the lingering legacy of "unclean" partitions/colonial borders all across the world.

Essentially you can never really get a perfect break/delineation I suppose (in the interests of a feasible demarcation)....and then the onus is for those left behind (say after a population transfer period) to integrate well and the majority to also accommodate. If a language is enough, definitely stark ethnicity/religion difference would be more than enough in a developing region.

Conceptually breaking it up further I don't think inevitably solves the issue each time either....in fact it could very well make things worse long term.

I am about a quarter way through a BBC documentary (from the mid-late 90s I think) about the yugsolav breakup....its quite fascinating to see how a sequence of (in hindsight) small things and emboldened minority forces (in both the majority and minority ethnic groups) managed to rip apart a united country in a few short years, almost in a pavlovian way to the unity that existed under the Tito years....but it is tempered by the real tragedy it wrought and that continues to linger of course.
 
.
No, you yourself are making mistakes on the chronology of Muslim migration to Arakan. Kamans are the descendants of those Muslim retinues who moved from Bengal in around 1657 CE when Shahjada (Prince) Shuja, who was the Subedar (Viceroy) of Bengal and the 2nd son of Emperor Shahjahan, fled to Arakan. Shuja was subsequently killed by the Arakanese King, but his retinues domiciled in Arakan and worked in the military.

But, the main group of Muslims themselves settled in Arakan in 1430 CE at the head of an expedition team under the exiled Buddhist King. The King was reinstated and the the retinues domiciled in Arakan. This group may have been mixed with other groups and now have renamed themselves Rohingya. In Bengal proper, there is no group who call themselves Rohingya.
dividing into 2 different races upon the people groups from same origin , same language and same culture is non-sense. both are bengali who come from Bengal and practice bengal tradition. how it can be different groups. ? on other hand , there is also not enough to comprise a race with guard population alone. it's sure that there is no rohingya at later centuries but Kamans. rohingya word is appeared only after the mass migration of people from Bengal arrived as workers in colonial era.

Note, Arakan was not a part of Burma before sometime around 1780s. The British Indian govt joined Arakan with Burma for administrative purpose.

since 1780 is enough for arakan to be part of Myanmar. even both East pakistan and British agreed this. we should have asked CHT , former part of arakan kingdom as well at the time. i think our Leaders forgot to do it.
 
.
we should have asked CHT , former part of arakan kingdom as well at the time. i think our Leaders forgot to do it.

I brought this up in another forum, and ppl kinda left the discussion lol. BD HAS its half (CHT + CTG strip) of the area already basically. I mean (just one example).... Germany today can complain about all the land it gave to Poland (after WW2), the massive numbers that were forced at gunpoint to move away from their generation settled land.....but they are too mature and smart to do that....they built their country up and now are economic giant....and let history stay in history realm rather than bring up the bad blood which everyone will just argue forever on....especially when they themselves were not there and use to bubble their emotions and own failures.

But you see the issue can only be one-way for them (BDees) and they have no great vision or ability to try put things aside for greater good. They are in eternal victimhood complex, just keep dealing with them the way you are buddy....you created so much heartburn in such a small timeframe lol.
 
.
dividing into 2 different races upon the people groups from same origin , same language and same culture is non-sense. both are bengali who come from Bengal and practice bengal tradition. how it can be different groups. ? on other hand , there is also not enough to comprise a race with guard population alone. it's sure that there is no rohingya at later centuries but Kamans. rohingya word is appeared only after the mass migration of people from Bengal arrived as workers in colonial era.



since 1780 is enough for arakan to be part of Myanmar. even both East pakistan and British agreed this. we should have asked CHT , former part of arakan kingdom as well at the time. i think our Leaders forgot to do it.


The CHT barely had any people aside from groups like the Mru, before the 18th century. First, the Chakma came to settle there from Arakan, and later on the Marmas, AKA Rakhines after their defeat at the hands of the Bamar Empire. Also, there would be none of us here talking about Northern Rakhine, if the Burmese didn't commit so many attrocites, or at the very least deny them citizenship. People in the CHT are full members of Bangladeshi society, and have all rights, and many of them serve in the army (much more men compared to their proportion of the population), and obviously politics as well. Infact, we've even let them still preserve their nominal kingdoms, despite abolishing Zamindaris elsewhere in Bengal. You guys on the other hand, deny Rohingyas a basic right as citizenship.
 
.
^^ Trying to take the moral high ground on feelz? Check!

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/eb049231

The government of a dubiously democratic, newly independent state, in a relentless and openly avowed land‐grab, is waging genocidal warfare against the non‐Muslim tribal minorities who occupy lands along one of its borders with India. A Bangladeshi army commander operating in the Tracts once avowed the government's aim: “We Want the Soil but not the People of the Chittagong Hill Tracts.” A genocidal intention could not easily be more explicitly expressed.

Such great treatment of "citizens" indeed:

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/groups/w...violence-and-brutality-chittagong-hill-tracts

This is hardly surprising: since March 2015, access to outsiders is tightly controlled and the indigenous people are forbidden to speak to foreigners without supervision.

The Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh have been affected by what has been described as “genocide” or “ethnic cleansing” for many years. In the 1960s and 1970s, thousands were forced off their lands to make way for reservoirs and hydroelectric schemes, a displacement made worse by massacres against the Jumma people (the collective name for all indigenous peoples in the region), and nearly twenty years of conflict against a military dictatorship and also with the democratic government of Bangladesh. This only ended in 1997 when a peace accord recognised the rights of the Jumma people over their lands. This accord remains largely unimplemented and the Jumma people are not even acknowledged in the Bangladesh constitution.

The Bangladesh government has settled hundreds of thousands of Bengali people in the Chittagong Hills, and they now make up the majority of the population in the region. Settlement has not been peaceful. In a number of violent clashes, tobacco, rubber and tea planters have seized Jumma lands at will, usually with military support. By 2012 the situation had become so bad that one indigenous woman told Amnesty International;

“We are now left with no land to farm and grow crops, or forest to go to for collecting fuel, wood, and fruit. Life has become very hard as we have [the] army at very close proximity and I feel very insecure even walking short distances.”

Violence, particularly sexual violence, is routinely carried out by settlers and the military alike. The figures make for sickening reading: in 2014 alone 117 indigenous women faced physical and sexual abuse, 57% of these being children. Twenty one of these women were raped or gang-raped and seven were killed afterwards. During the first few weeks of 2015, at least three confirmed rapes were reported within sight of military checkpoints supposed to bring security to the area. These are only the reported incidents; the true figure is likely to be much higher. It is common practice for the police not to report rape and medical staff are pressured against doing so. No wonder indigenous lawyer, Samari Chakma, calls the Chittagong Hill Tracts a “rapist's heaven”.

Concerns over human rights violations have been stifled, often brutally, as in the case of Kalpana Chakma, indigenous human rights activist, abducted in 1996 and not seen since. Generally allegations are met with indifference by corrupt officials, or by official reprisal. Following damning reports by Amnesty International and other human rights concerns, the Bangladesh government has placed restrictions upon the Jumma peoples speaking with outsiders (restrictions which do not apply to the Bengali population in the region). As Jerry Allen, writing for Amnesty International, comments;

“...no evidence or even plausible accusation has ever been brought forward of outsiders collaborating with indigenous people to detriment of the sovereignty of Bangladesh. The authorities just want to silence the indigenous people.”
 
.
since 1780 is enough for arakan to be part of Myanmar. even both East pakistan and British agreed this. we should have asked CHT , former part of arakan kingdom as well at the time. i think our Leaders forgot to do it.
Since the Arakanese Muslims have been living there centuries before the Burmese annexed it, why do you think these Arakanese natives can be expelled? It is the Burmese who are late comers. They have no right to expel the natives.
 
.
Since the Arakanese Muslims have been living there centuries before the Burmese annexed it, why do you think these Arakanese natives can be expelled? It is the Burmese who are late comers. They have no right to expel the natives.

Says a hypocrite from a product of two partitions.
 
.
^^ Trying to take the moral high ground on feelz? Check!

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/eb049231

The government of a dubiously democratic, newly independent state, in a relentless and openly avowed land‐grab, is waging genocidal warfare against the non‐Muslim tribal minorities who occupy lands along one of its borders with India. A Bangladeshi army commander operating in the Tracts once avowed the government's aim: “We Want the Soil but not the People of the Chittagong Hill Tracts.” A genocidal intention could not easily be more explicitly expressed.

Such great treatment of "citizens" indeed:

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/groups/w...violence-and-brutality-chittagong-hill-tracts

This is hardly surprising: since March 2015, access to outsiders is tightly controlled and the indigenous people are forbidden to speak to foreigners without supervision.

The Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh have been affected by what has been described as “genocide” or “ethnic cleansing” for many years. In the 1960s and 1970s, thousands were forced off their lands to make way for reservoirs and hydroelectric schemes, a displacement made worse by massacres against the Jumma people (the collective name for all indigenous peoples in the region), and nearly twenty years of conflict against a military dictatorship and also with the democratic government of Bangladesh. This only ended in 1997 when a peace accord recognised the rights of the Jumma people over their lands. This accord remains largely unimplemented and the Jumma people are not even acknowledged in the Bangladesh constitution.

The Bangladesh government has settled hundreds of thousands of Bengali people in the Chittagong Hills, and they now make up the majority of the population in the region. Settlement has not been peaceful. In a number of violent clashes, tobacco, rubber and tea planters have seized Jumma lands at will, usually with military support. By 2012 the situation had become so bad that one indigenous woman told Amnesty International;

“We are now left with no land to farm and grow crops, or forest to go to for collecting fuel, wood, and fruit. Life has become very hard as we have [the] army at very close proximity and I feel very insecure even walking short distances.”

Violence, particularly sexual violence, is routinely carried out by settlers and the military alike. The figures make for sickening reading: in 2014 alone 117 indigenous women faced physical and sexual abuse, 57% of these being children. Twenty one of these women were raped or gang-raped and seven were killed afterwards. During the first few weeks of 2015, at least three confirmed rapes were reported within sight of military checkpoints supposed to bring security to the area. These are only the reported incidents; the true figure is likely to be much higher. It is common practice for the police not to report rape and medical staff are pressured against doing so. No wonder indigenous lawyer, Samari Chakma, calls the Chittagong Hill Tracts a “rapist's heaven”.

Concerns over human rights violations have been stifled, often brutally, as in the case of Kalpana Chakma, indigenous human rights activist, abducted in 1996 and not seen since. Generally allegations are met with indifference by corrupt officials, or by official reprisal. Following damning reports by Amnesty International and other human rights concerns, the Bangladesh government has placed restrictions upon the Jumma peoples speaking with outsiders (restrictions which do not apply to the Bengali population in the region). As Jerry Allen, writing for Amnesty International, comments;

“...no evidence or even plausible accusation has ever been brought forward of outsiders collaborating with indigenous people to detriment of the sovereignty of Bangladesh. The authorities just want to silence the indigenous people.”


The Dam thing was during the Pakistan era, and was protested by a lot of people back then. But, aside from that, the insurgency against the Shanti bahini is a thing of the past. Well, of course, atrocities have been committed, and the Bangladesh government nor the people deny it. But, the settlement of Bengalis there wasn't a government propositioned thing, but rather the people's own doing. In the current day, people in the Hill Tracts aren't really treated badly, nor are they denied any citizenship rights, unlike the Rohingyas. Foreigners, including foreign tourists, require permission before visiting, but not talking to indigineous people. The media isn't really restricted there like you think it is. I've went there before once with a half-white relative, and they needed permission to enter, but it's not really a big deal since most people enter areas through Kaptai/Rangamati which has powerplants and cantonments. Foreign civilians can't enter Bangladesh military installations.
 
.
The Dam thing was during the Pakistan era, and was protested by a lot of people back then. But, aside from that, the insurgency against the Shanti bahini is a thing of the past. Well, of course, atrocities have been committed, and the Bangladesh government nor the people deny it. But, the settlement of Bengalis there wasn't a government propositioned thing, but rather the people's own doing. In the current day, people in the Hill Tracts aren't really treated badly, nor are they denied any citizenship rights, unlike the Rohingyas. Foreigners, including foreign tourists, require permission before visiting, but not talking to indigineous people. The media isn't really restricted there like you think it is. I've went there before once with a half-white relative, and they needed permission to enter, but it's not really a big deal since most people enter areas through Kaptai/Rangamati which has powerplants and cantonments. Foreign civilians can't enter Bangladesh military installations.

At the end of the day, it boils down to who has more credibility. I do not assign any more to BD side of things than Burma.

You did your games as a free country to CHT people for a cpl decades after 1971...in the most atrocious way and then you say now you gave whatever remains of them (and after you pushed in tons of settlers) ...."citizenship" so its all good.

But because Burma started on this same process later (given their own internal conflicts in other areas that were much higher priority at the time) with regards to Arakan coast area....they are not good compared to you.

What gives you the right to be this much of a hypocrite?

Maybe 1971 should have been allowed to forment and fester in East Pakistan/BD ....to level of time as it did inside Burma....and who knows what you would be doing to CHT people right now at the same time in the exact same way (or lot lot worse) that you are crying foul about the Burmese perceived treatment to Rohingya/BD illegals. Till then its not morally correct to claim any high ground on this matter given you guys engaged in the same exact thing out of convenience, just you were sheltered and ignored enough by the world....but the similarities are all there. If you genuinely hold a mirror first to yourselves before you bark about Burmese today....you can get some modicum of credibility over time. Till then it is what it is....and the immediate important players in the region recognise that...heck even your own govt secretly does. Emotion based feels doctrine, veiled under a raincoat of hypocrisy will lead BD to doom....its crystal clear. If BD is pragmatic and becomes level headed player long term, it does a lot better in realising its potential.
 
.
At the end of the day, it boils down to who has more credibility. I do not assign any more to BD side of things than Burma.

You did your games as a free country to CHT people for a cpl decades after 1971...in the most atrocious way and then you say now you gave whatever remains of them (and after you pushed in tons of settlers) ...."citizenship" so its all good.

But because Burma started on this same process later (given their own internal conflicts in other areas that were much higher priority at the time) with regards to Arakan coast area....they are not good compared to you.

What gives you the right to be this much of a hypocrite?

Maybe 1971 should have been allowed to forment and fester in East Pakistan/BD ....to level of time as it did inside Burma....and who knows what you would be doing to CHT people right now at the same time in the exact same way (or lot lot worse) that you are crying foul about the Burmese perceived treatment to Rohingya/BD illegals. Till then its not morally correct to claim any high ground on this matter given you guys engaged in the same exact thing out of convenience, just you were sheltered and ignored enough by the world....but the similarities are all there. If you genuinely hold a mirror first to yourselves before you bark about Burmese today....you can get some modicum of credibility over time. Till then it is what it is....and the immediate important players in the region recognise that...heck even your own govt secretly does. Emotion based feels doctrine, veiled under a raincoat of hypocrisy will lead BD to doom....its crystal clear. If BD is pragmatic and becomes level headed player long term, it does a lot better in realising its potential.


International observers aren't saying anything against us. Even Amnesty is not saying anything much compared to what they write about the situation in Rakhine. There have been never talk of any sanctions of any type against us, nor are any governments condemning anything we do. This should tell you the difference in intensity between the two situations (one of which is resolved). And the Rohingya thing started back in the 60s, when their citizenship was taken away, when the Military Junta came to power. Before that, they were allowed all citizenship rights, including right to be elected and to vote. I'm not sure what you're on about, aside from your weird obsession with Bangladesh and Bangladesh-related topics. You honestly are a funny dude. I'm guessing you take yourself as a "Keyboard warrior", trying to "fight" people lmao in some online forum?

2pph35h.jpg
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom