Support for Nato membership soars to 76% in Finland

[Foinikas]

Because you want to get stronger REGARDLESS how much weaker is the other guy.

Even if the other guy might nuke you to oblivion?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Even if the other guy might nuke you to oblivion?

Russia threathened to nuke Sweden early March which was likely the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[jhungary]

Honestly, it's dumb to say "Yeah, I am not going to do anything because Russia have nuke"
To which end would it stop?

"Hey, stop arming Ukraine or we wll nuke you" - Okay, then it will become
"Hey, leave Poland or we will nuke you"
"Hey, vacate Latvia or Estonia or we will nuke you"

If you are afraid Russia "May" nuke you, then you probably are going to do whatever they say.

That's why we also have nuke too.

 

[Abid123]

Russia threathened to nuke Sweden early March which was likely the straw that broke the camels back.

Even if you are in NATO they could nuke you without consequences.

 

[Foinikas]

Around 200-220,000 civilians were killed in Iraq from 2003 and onwards with US forces killing around 5% and the Iraqis themselves killing 95%.
Most of those killed by US were killed in the short time from the start of the war until the collapse.
It is documented in the Iraqi Body Count website.

How many millions of lives were ruined? Revenge killings,terrorist groups rose,car bombs and terrorist attacks had become a daily phenomenon in Iraq. Syria? The same thing and even worse. Libya? Civil War. Yemen fcked up to pieces by Saudi coalition and US support for them. I'm not saying the Houthi should have ruled,but the Western countries can't talk about humanitarianism and freedom when they have supported the complete downfall of Yemen.

It's like...save me your crocodile tears,you've been bombing other countries to pieces for decades.

Not you,not Sweden,I mean the other big ones.

Honestly, it's dumb to say "Yeah, I am not going to do anything because Russia have nuke"
To which end would it stop?

"Hey, stop arming Ukraine or we wll nuke you" - Okay, then it will become
"Hey, leave Poland or we will nuke you"
"Hey, vacate Latvia or Estonia or we will nuke you"

If you are afraid Russia "May" nuke you, then you probably are going to do whatever they say.

That's why we also have nuke too.

I don't think Russians protested or cared that much about the Baltic countries joining NATO. Or Poland. Ukraine is something very different. Finland too. And although I understand the Finns,the problem lies in that mentality some in the West have: Expanding and grabbing everything. Not caring about maintaining a balance. They just had to support and fund Ukrainian uprisings and now the war against Russia. Years ago,Russians had made it clear that they would not accept any meddling in their southern borders(in the 2008 Georgia War). Now,Biden and Johnson were prodding and prodding the bear through Ukraine. Maybe they thought the dragon was too much for them?

 

[Foinikas]

The Swedish capture of Moscow in 1610 was a great success.
Unfortunately for the Russians they ran away from the subsequent battle with Poland.

I was talking about Poltava,later on with epic Carolus

The purpose of NATO is to make its members feel safer.

So it's a Feel Nice Club? The problem is that some Western leaders had been trying to recreate the Cold War like crazy,the last 10-12 years. And now it seems like they made it.

 

[Sayfullah]

I think the Chechen and Syria situation is going to change. Putin is virtually bribing Kadyrov and Assad, when Russian start pulling force and start having difficulty paying bribe, there goes the loyalty. There are report saying Russia have to pull troop from Syria to fight in Ukraine, this mean it is draining a lot of resource for them, and things are going to change.

Whether or not the West should support weapon? I don't know. But there are going to be a lot of unclaimed weapon from both side of the war after this war, and where those weapon are going to end up would remain to be seen.

If Russia can’t pay bribes to Kadyrov and Assad, than that’s perfect time for west to send Russia to its grave permanently. West shouldn’t miss the golden opportunity because insurgencies in Chechnya and Dagestan alone would cripple Russia.
I’m not sure if assad will turn anti Russian tho because he still has support of Iran and Russians did a lot for him.
The weapons given to Ukraine during this war, it might fall into Chechen and Dagestani hands but it would be too late too little.
The greater risk the greater reward so west if it wants Russia to be permanently not a threat anymore, it must take the risk and send weapons to Chechens and Dagestanis because the risk is there but the reward if successful is huge as well.
If not giving them weapons, west should recognize independent Chechnya and Dagestan because Russia recognized Ukrainian territories as independent so west should return the favour and at least recognize Chechnya and Dagestan as independent.

I think the Chechen and Syria situation is going to change. Putin is virtually bribing Kadyrov and Assad, when Russian start pulling force and start having difficulty paying bribe, there goes the loyalty. There are report saying Russia have to pull troop from Syria to fight in Ukraine, this mean it is draining a lot of resource for them, and things are going to change.

Whether or not the West should support weapon? I don't know. But there are going to be a lot of unclaimed weapon from both side of the war after this war, and where those weapon are going to end up would remain to be seen.

If west plays it right it can even turn Crimea into hell for Russians. Russians since they occupied Crimea have oppressed Tatar Muslims in Crimea and have imposed restrictions on their places of worship. If west can guarantee Tatar Muslims who have been oppressed by Russia and soviets (when they use to control it) get religious freedom afterwards (part of Ukraine but have religious freedom), majority of the Muslims there will join the fight against Russia and revolt. Already there’s a couple Tatar Muslim groups fighting on behalf of Ukraine in the war. West can create a mass insurgency inside Crimea if it plays its cards rights and gains support of Muslims of Crimea.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

How many millions of lives were ruined? Revenge killings,terrorist groups rose,car bombs and terrorist attacks had become a daily phenomenon in Iraq. Syria? The same thing and even worse. Libya? Civil War. Yemen fcked up to pieces by Saudi coalition and US support for them. I'm not saying the Houthi should have ruled,but the Western countries can't talk about humanitarianism and freedom when they have supported the complete downfall of Yemen.

It's like...save me your crocodile tears,you've been bombing other countries to pieces for decades.

Not you,not Sweden,I mean the other big ones.

Maybe the people in the Middle East need to learn empathy and how to compromise.
There is no reason why Iraq, Syria or Libya could not have a good life, except for their tribalism.
They need to accept that they have no better right than their neighbour.

I was talking about Poltava,later on with epic Carolus

And you were trying to deliver a message that invading Russia will always fail, and I showed that this is not neccessarily true.

So it's a Feel Nice Club? The problem is that some Western leaders had been trying to recreate the Cold War like crazy,the last 10-12 years. And now it seems like they made it.

Russia created Cold War 2.0 by invading Ukraine in 2014.
Before that, the West was turning down spending on defense. Russia has very little to offer other countries and the West is attracting everyone.

 

[Foinikas]

Maybe the people in the Middle East need to learn empathy and how to compromise.
There is no reason why Iraq, Syria or Libya could not have a good life, except for their tribalism.
They need to accept that they have no better right than their neighbour.

Maybe. And is NATO the world police?

And you were trying to deliver a message that invading Russia will always fail, and I showed that this is not neccessarily true.

And yet mighty armies have been defeated by the Russians after they were beaten back badly.

Russia created Cold War 2.0 by invading Ukraine in 2014.
Before that, the West was turning down spending on defense.

Maybe that's what the defence companies and big money wanted in the West. A reason for countries to start arming again. There are a lot of interests at stake. The Americans and Western Europeans did a big mistake by supporting the Euromaidan and the ultra-nationalist governments that followed. Belarus,Ukraine,Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan,this is Russian turf. Imagine if Russians tried got Ireland in an alliance against the UK. If they supported and funded Catalonian riots.

The French and the Germans wanted to find a diplomatic solution,but the Americans and the British kept insisting on war and sanctions.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Maybe. And is NATO the world police?

The UNSC resolutions on Libya and Syria calls for all nations to do an effort.
Libya was not a NATO operation. It was an operation which involved some NATO countries and some non-NATO countries.

And yet mighty armies have been defeated by the Russians after they were beaten back badly.

You win some, you lose some.
Russia did not exactly win at Austerlitz.

Maybe that's what the defence companies and big money wanted in the West. A reason for countries to start arming again. There are a lot of interests at stake. The Americans and Western Europeans did a big mistake by supporting the Euromaidan and the ultra-nationalist governments that followed. Belarus,Ukraine,Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan,this is Russian turf. Imagine if Russians tried got Ireland in an alliance against the UK. If they supported and funded Catalonian riots.

No, Ukraine is not Russias turf.

The French and the Germans wanted to find a diplomatic solution,but the Americans and the British kept insisting on war and sanctions.

View attachment 844658

The West insisted on sanctions, and Russia insisted on war.

 

[Foinikas]

Russia did not exactly win at Austerlitz.

Nobody is saying Russians will all battles and all wars.

The West insisted on sanctions, and Russia insisted on war.

And the West insisted on meddling in Ukraine back in 2014 and supporting the ultra-nationalist governments.

It was an operation which involved some NATO countries and some non-NATO countries.

And what good came out of it?

No, Ukraine is not Russias turf.

Then I guess Mexico,Canada and Puerto Rico aren't USA's turf? Ireland isn't British turf? Hong Kong and Macau aren't China's turf?

Back in the Cold War there were boundaries. Remember what happened when the Soviets tried to install missiles in Cuba?

Americans threatened with nuclear war,Soviets threatened with nuclear war.

Is that what you'd like to see now? And for what? For Ukraine? Western Europeans suddenly care so much about Ukrainians,they want a nuclear war in Europe? Most considered them "russkies" until now.

 

[Foinikas]

He sounds like a US puppet. I did not know that swedes like to lick american ***.

Swedes despise Russians,but then again Russians have been violating Swedish air space for years.

 

[Abid123]

Swedes despise Russians,but then again Russians have been violating Swedish air space for years.

They are delusional if they don't understand that they are now targets of Russian nukes. They would be better off just neutral.

 

[Oldman1]

Russia has no plans of invading Finland if Finland stay away from NATO. Ukraine was invaded for a reason and if Finland wont behave like Ukraine there will not be any Russian invasion. Finns are miscalculating this , or simply in the bad influence of UK , US. This is the decision they will regret mark my words.
This will disturb the whole geo political situation of Europe.

Why not? I mean Ukraine as Russia says is artificial country and needs to be wiped out. Shouldn't Finland be treated the same since it was also part of Russia and Russia can decided to take it back?

 

[gambit]

Even if the other guy might nuke you to oblivion?

Russia cannot nuke US or any of our allies, namely, because we have baby formula. For some mysterious reasons, some PDF members believe baby formula have some cosmic inverse tie-in with Russia and right now, the US have a shortage of baby formula, that mean Russia is strong. So the time for Russia to nuke anyone is before our baby formula plants starts rolling again.