Sukhoi SU-30 Carnage in Ukraine!

[TopGun786]

Look! Here is what happened!

Pakistan shot down

999900000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Indian planes including fighters, Helicopters, refulers etc etc etc.

ITS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT which is of the most interest to me. Pakistan's government quitely returned one single captured soldier IMMEDIATELY! With NO CONDITIONS AT ALL!

I wonder WHY after such a MASSIVE victory, Pakistan could not even enforce ONE single will on India? Could have asked some land in Kashmir to be returned? Or some Pakistanis in Indian prisons to be returned? What stopped that? Why waste Pakistan Forces such a brave behaviour? Why quitely return the sole capture of the fight at all? Why not exact some REAL price from India?

Does not look a position of power AT ALL to me. Looks more like a position of desperation and hesitancy to escalate.

India for all its failings (in bombing, in CAP, in defending against PAF) did ONE THING MATERIAL. It escalated the situation.


Actually, YES!
Modi has been repeatedly questioned on his "Koi an ghus aaya hei" dialog.
Reporter after reporters in India have shown that China has changed the realities on the ground.
Retired military leaders (like Col. Panag) have shown even during early engagement that India forces have lost its control around Lake Pagnong and is not patrolling till where it used to.

May I ask, why is Pakistan's government and forces not questioned similarly for letting such a golden opportunity to go waste?

It seems you are not as smart as I thought you would be.
Your frantic way of typing numerals indicates that you are seriously damaged from the inside (another carnage). Is it a good way to hide frustration and embarrassment?
No, we did not shoot any refuelers. I will repeat, We only shot 2 Jets (Su30 & Mig21) and only one Helicopter (Mi17). Plus there is an unknown number of equipment losses when Indian Army posts were pounded by precision strikes inside Indian Occupied Kashmir.
And hence, it is proved yet again that cow dung and urine-induced effects on the brain create a gap of more than two poles of the earth between fantasies and reality. But.......... as you are my neighbor and we always take good care of our neighbors it is my duty to make you feel happy, and depending on your logic and I will accept my defeat by accepting the following points.
1- Indian spice bombs hit with pinpoint accuracy, just 40 kilometers away from the intended target.
2- Indian jets win the race when PAF chased and shooed them off.
3- The death of 2 trees and one crow was a heavy blow to Pakistan. It affected both our Military and economy in a very very bad way.
4- Our morale after Indian strikes was so low that we pounded Indian military posts in a very cowardly way and in daylight. So coward of us. There was a very high-rank Indian Officer busy in call of nature when bombs fell nearby. The guy ran away immediately and reached Dehli by train within hours (The legend says he did not even wash until he reached mainland India and safety)
5- We very cowardly shot 2 Indian jets and a Heli which resulted in at least 8 deaths of highly trained Indian personnel. We were very sorry for that also.
6- Out of heavy fear, we kicked and punched Abhi-none-done and gave him a bloody nose. After getting all the required information from him the next day we handed him back with his face still swollen. Our legs were shaking and ''maathy per paseena tha''.
---------------
And thank you for taking my bait. You accepted & explained very well that Modi sold a huge part of Kashmir. The truth is among all this chest thumping from the Indian side, Pakistan and China took way a huge chunk of Land from Indian hands (either way it was not yours legally, so you must not have worries.)
__________________
And why Pakistan gave back Abinonedone? It is because Pakistan is still not as war-mongering nation as India (also there was no election in the near future).
Shooting down at least 3 Indian assets bring two nations close to a nuclear war. It is a reality that although the Indian army is mostly a bunch of cowardly sheep they have huge stocks/piles of conventional arms and in long term, Pakistan cannot win if the war in conventional. So it was 99% possible that this conflict will lead to a nuclear war. It was the immediate intervention of some powerful countries on both sides which escalated the situation. And Abhi-none-done was not a war or spy prisoner and there was no specific rule applied to him. He was no use to us so we released him. India immediately celebrated this and forgot the humiliation (In our Kashmiri proverb this act is known as ''punch the enemy in the face as hard as you can and then immediately make them realize that you were sorry for that ).
We are still checking and examining your whole capability and it seems after Russian equipment failed miserably in Ukraine, you people are not in a good position (for conventional war, I will say again). Just wait a little more. The real offensive will come from two sides on India, not one
And the thing is if we really want to exchange anybody, we still have some rotting RAW personnel with us. Brave India is still not able to take them back.
Bakhts are hardy folks when it comes to making them understand things through logic. Now, my dear friend, its up to you which side you want to stay.

 

[HydraChess]

Your frantic way of typing numerals indicates that you are seriously damaged from the inside (another carnage). Is it a good way to hide frustration and embarrassment?

Forget me, talk about the topic.

No, we did not shoot any refuelers. I will repeat, We only shot 2 Jets (Su30 & Mig21) and only one Helicopter (Mi17). Plus there is an unknown number of equipment losses when Indian Army posts were pounded by precision strikes inside Indian Occupied Kashmir.

Oh you shot down entire indian airforce, why being so modest?

And thank you for taking my bait. You accepted & explained very well that Modi sold a huge part of Kashmir. The truth is among all this chest thumping from the Indian side, Pakistan and China took way a huge chunk of Land from Indian hands (either way it was not yours legally, so you must not have worries.)

How does it matter?

And why Pakistan gave back Abinonedone? It is because Pakistan is still not as war-mongering nation as India (also there was no election in the near future).

Oh? After so soundly beating IAF, why waste it? And India and Pakistan have been in perpetual state of war.

The point is still simple: What was the entire point of exercise if you had to return the lone trophy of war without anything in return? Unless mig-21 is all you wanted?

It proves one and one thing only. Pakistan has NO capability of fighting with India. EVEN when they get victories in battle, they know they will loose the war. Make no mistake, 2019 was a military victory but you still lost the larger conflict by NOT making India pay anything.

Few dead soldiers and planes notwithstanding.

 

[TopGun786]

Forget me, talk about the topic.


Oh you shot down entire indian airforce, why being so modest?


How does it matter?


Oh? After so soundly beating IAF, why waste it? And India and Pakistan have been in perpetual state of war.

The point is still simple: What was the entire point of exercise if you had to return the lone trophy of war without anything in return? Unless mig-21 is all you wanted?

It proves one and one thing only. Pakistan has NO capability of fighting with India. EVEN when they get victories in battle, they know they will loose the war. Make no mistake, 2019 was a military victory but you still lost the larger conflict by NOT making India pay anything.

Few dead soldiers and planes notwithstanding.

I can see you are burning inside.
I will not waste my precious time on you. I wrote above what I wanted to say.
No, it's up to you to accept or not.
The time for the larger offensive has not come yet. You will have no idea when it comes. keep dreaming until then.

 

[alee92nawaz]

One interesting aspect of it is how the IAF’s two Su-30MKIs dueled with eight PAF F-16s during the conflict. The North group of 4 F-16s engaged our Flankers, which fired 3 AIM-120C AMRAAM BVR missiles. All the missiles missed their mark. The Sukhois pushed them back, while also picking up another group of 4 F-16s and multiple inbound strike aircraft from the Southern formation. This in essence meant that the Avengers were heavily outgunned by the PAF formation carrying more advanced American BVR missiles, and in sheer numbers. A fourth AMRAAM was fired by the South Group.

By advanced mapping, it could be deduced that by that time the Su-30MKI jets were just 25-30 kilometers away from the North Group jets. This fourth AMRAAM was also evaded by the Sukhois.

IAF Flankers, instead of retreating, counterattacked in a bold move against the F-16s ignoring the high-density BVR threat from the F-16s, in all probability breaching the AMRAAM MAR to press home the R27/77 attack 25-30 km from lead PAF jets in the North Group.

This meant that the things turned out to be the other way for the PAF, the Su-30s instead of returning dashed on to the F-16s to make them come under the R-27/77 missile range. This is because the Su-30MKIs were not carrying long-range BVR missiles, and had medium-range missiles, whose range problem had to be mitigated by bringing F-16s closer. The lead North Group F-16 fighters, instead of attacking the incoming Sukhoi, went ‘COLD’ prematurely.

That is the reason for the 10 out of 12 Pakistani bombs falling well out of the range of their intended targets was because of this unexpected counterattack by the IAF fighters

Dodgers, not fighters

 

[Skywalker]

One interesting aspect of it is how the IAF’s two Su-30MKIs dueled with eight PAF F-16s during the conflict. The North group of 4 F-16s engaged our Flankers, which fired 3 AIM-120C AMRAAM BVR missiles. All the missiles missed their mark. The Sukhois pushed them back, while also picking up another group of 4 F-16s and multiple inbound strike aircraft from the Southern formation. This in essence meant that the Avengers were heavily outgunned by the PAF formation carrying more advanced American BVR missiles, and in sheer numbers. A fourth AMRAAM was fired by the South Group.

By advanced mapping, it could be deduced that by that time the Su-30MKI jets were just 25-30 kilometers away from the North Group jets. This fourth AMRAAM was also evaded by the Sukhois.

IAF Flankers, instead of retreating, counterattacked in a bold move against the F-16s ignoring the high-density BVR threat from the F-16s, in all probability breaching the AMRAAM MAR to press home the R27/77 attack 25-30 km from lead PAF jets in the North Group.

This meant that the things turned out to be the other way for the PAF, the Su-30s instead of returning dashed on to the F-16s to make them come under the R-27/77 missile range. This is because the Su-30MKIs were not carrying long-range BVR missiles, and had medium-range missiles, whose range problem had to be mitigated by bringing F-16s closer. The lead North Group F-16 fighters, instead of attacking the incoming Sukhoi, went ‘COLD’ prematurely.

That is the reason for the 10 out of 12 Pakistani bombs falling well out of the range of their intended targets was because of this unexpected counterattack by the IAF fighters

Is this a plot of a new Bollywood movie…so how many amraams you recovered. Care to share here. The only amraam your paajits recovered was an exploaded one which actually downed one of your mki’s aka avenger. Now don’t tell me that callsign is for the aircraft not the pilot.

 

[nahtanbob]

I'm impressed by how much bigger the Su30mki is compared to our other fighters especially Tejas lol.
It's almost as big as the P8I

you should be concerned at the size. big aircraft require a lot of electronic warfare systems to stay alive

 

[Mav3rick]

Don't mean to digress but the MKi in IAF hands also totally failed in combat. Hence the MiG-21 were sent in as the last resort to combat PAF jets on 27.2. 19.

I just cannot make head or tale of why the Indians left out their front line fighters in such a hot engagement and rather decided to send in Mig-21 Bisons. However, would it not have been even better had we sent in Thunders to take on the IAF rather than the topline Falcons? Not only would we have tested the Thunders in actual A2A combat but also would have been a lot more confident of the platform.

I believe we sent Thunders as escorts to the Mirages, right; but when it was time to take on the IAF in A2A engagements, we switched back to Falcons. I was quiet disappointed. Would have loved some kills by the Thunders.

One interesting aspect of it is how the IAF’s two Su-30MKIs dueled with eight PAF F-16s during the conflict. The North group of 4 F-16s engaged our Flankers, which fired 3 AIM-120C AMRAAM BVR missiles. All the missiles missed their mark. The Sukhois pushed them back, while also picking up another group of 4 F-16s and multiple inbound strike aircraft from the Southern formation. This in essence meant that the Avengers were heavily outgunned by the PAF formation carrying more advanced American BVR missiles, and in sheer numbers. A fourth AMRAAM was fired by the South Group.

By advanced mapping, it could be deduced that by that time the Su-30MKI jets were just 25-30 kilometers away from the North Group jets. This fourth AMRAAM was also evaded by the Sukhois.

IAF Flankers, instead of retreating, counterattacked in a bold move against the F-16s ignoring the high-density BVR threat from the F-16s, in all probability breaching the AMRAAM MAR to press home the R27/77 attack 25-30 km from lead PAF jets in the North Group.

This meant that the things turned out to be the other way for the PAF, the Su-30s instead of returning dashed on to the F-16s to make them come under the R-27/77 missile range. This is because the Su-30MKIs were not carrying long-range BVR missiles, and had medium-range missiles, whose range problem had to be mitigated by bringing F-16s closer. The lead North Group F-16 fighters, instead of attacking the incoming Sukhoi, went ‘COLD’ prematurely.

That is the reason for the 10 out of 12 Pakistani bombs falling well out of the range of their intended targets was because of this unexpected counterattack by the IAF fighters

You know, you 'hypothesis' would have water if:

1. IAF had escalated the matter to even the score atleast and/or
2. Modi had not claimed that things would have been different if IAF had Rafale.
3. IAF had not expedited the order and delivery of Rafale.

Infact, the Indians were more keen on crying that PAF had used AMRAAM and Falcons rather than forming a response. The sheer matter of not sending MKIs to engage the Falcons is testament to how IAF respects the Falcons and is hesitant to take it on even with its frontline fighters.

And what a lame excuse the IAF was not carrying BVR's!! IAF has been carrying BVR's since before Kargil even and they weren't carrying it when it really mattered, come on.....

 

[Trango Towers]

I just cannot make head or tale of why the Indians left out their front line fighters in such a hot engagement and rather decided to send in Mig-21 Bisons. However, would it not have been even better had we sent in Thunders to take on the IAF rather than the topline Falcons? Not only would we have tested the Thunders in actual A2A combat but also would have been a lot more confident of the platform.

I believe we sent Thunders as escorts to the Mirages, right; but when it was time to take on the IAF in A2A engagements, we switched back to Falcons. I was quiet disappointed. Would have loved some kills by the Thunders.


You know, you 'hypothesis' would have water if:

1. IAF had escalated the matter to even the score atleast and/or
2. Modi had not claimed that things would have been different if IAF had Rafale.
3. IAF had not expedited the order and delivery of Rafale.

Infact, the Indians were more keen on crying that PAF had used AMRAAM and Falcons rather than forming a response. The sheer matter of not sending MKIs to engage the Falcons is testament to how IAF respects the Falcons and is hesitant to take it on even with its frontline fighters.

And what a lame excuse the IAF was not carrying BVR's!! IAF has been carrying BVR's since before Kargil even and they weren't carrying it when it really mattered, come on.....

Why would you station a Bison on a forward airbase ??
This is the fault of the planners

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

Is this a plot of a new Bollywood movie…so how many amraams you recovered. Care to share here. The only amraam your paajits recovered was an exploaded one which actually downed one of your mki’s aka avenger. Now don’t tell me that callsign is for the aircraft not the pilot.

Warhead detonation doesn't necessarily points to proximity fuse activation. You either don't know or deliberately refusing to acknowledge that AAM missiles self-detonates at R-max for safety purposes after it fails to hit its target

 

[nahtanbob]

Why would you station a Bison on a forward airbase ??
This is the fault of the planners

Maybe MiG-21 Bison are good enough. Maybe it is canon fodder

 

[NAVDEEP DHALIWAL]

On front line u need interceptors.
1. Should be very fast to go in sky
2. Should be cheap to operate.

So tejas/ bison r good enough.
As it can be order to fly multiple times a day , so operating cost should be low.

Bigger aircrafts like su 30 / 29 / mirages
Only needed during war.
1. They are costly to operate
2. Has lot of options for ammunition so can be used for various missions.
3. Should have long reach , more than interceptors.



Russia loosing su30

Are these su30 being shot down while flying at low height?

Than it doesn't matter to china / India
Both r trying to use mki as firing Station from far off distances,.

Actually I'm quite disappointed with z Russian army, we also have money takers , but atleast they did ask for lightening pods after the Kargil.
Russia is just on another level of incompetent. They don't have laser targeting pods or missiles in enough numbers.
Still doing bombing runs while flying low and getting shot. Lol

 

[Trango Towers]

Maybe MiG-21 Bison are good enough. Maybe it is canon fodder

I think designed to just be cannon fodder so that PAF is engaged with them and gives the more advanced units time to react

 

[foxhoundbis]

One for Eurasiantimes Indian Fanboys.

Amid ‘Sukhoi Carnage’ In Ukraine War, Indian Air Force Must Take A Cue From Russia & Upgrade Its Su-30 MKIs To SM2 Standards

Russia has lost eleven Sukhoi Su-30 fighters in Ukraine, leaving a cue for India and even China to upgrade its Su-30 MKI jets to MK2 standards

eurasiantimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Dixit Oryx ....
Oryx is a group of Western intelligence ugly officers. They work for the West. Their only source is ....Ukrainian government.
In fact, in a matter of credibility, Oryx===> "0". It is fake news, a hoax.
The SU-30, the Rafale, Typhoon, J-16 are among the best aircraft in this world.
Moreover, we are in a time when the US High Command of the Air Force decided to give up the F-22, and surely in a couple of years, the F-35 will follow the same path, as the F-105.
It does mean that the US reliy on "IV" generation fighters, thus they are ordering several dozen of new F-15 EX. However, if an F-15 encounters a SU-30, in terms of result in combat -see Cope India 2004-, nothing could be guaranteed. In visual range combat, the advantage could -depending on the quality of the pilots- be easy for the Russian aircraft.
Furthermore, there are more and more echoes saying that in the skies of Syria, SU-30, and SU-35 toyed with the US F-22, EF-18, F-15.
Thus, the US and their allies are doing all their possibilities in order to debunk Russian industry, whatever the methods.
Hence Oryx, as a Nato service is participating in this task.

 

[Foinikas]

1- Indian spice bombs hit with pinpoint accuracy, just 40 kilometers away from the intended target.
2- Indian jets win the race when PAF chased and shooed them off.
3- The death of 2 trees and one crow was a heavy blow to Pakistan. It affected both our Military and economy in a very very bad way.
4- Our morale after Indian strikes was so low that we pounded Indian military posts in a very cowardly way and in daylight. So coward of us. There was a very high-rank Indian Officer busy in call of nature when bombs fell nearby. The guy ran away immediately and reached Dehli by train within hours (The legend says he did not even wash until he reached mainland India and safety)

I loved this comment

Dixit Oryx ....
Oryx is a group of Western intelligence ugly officers. They work for the West. Their only source is ....Ukrainian government.
In fact, in a matter of credibility, Oryx===> "0". It is fake news, a hoax.
The SU-30, the Rafale, Typhoon, J-16 are among the best aircraft in this world.
Moreover, we are in a time when the US High Command of the Air Force decided to give up the F-22, and surely in a couple of years, the F-35 will follow the same path, as the F-105.
It does mean that the US reliy on "IV" generation fighters, thus they are ordering several dozen of new F-15 EX. However, if an F-15 encounters a SU-30, in terms of result in combat -see Cope India 2004-, nothing could be guaranteed. In visual range combat, the advantage could -depending on the quality of the pilots- be easy for the Russian aircraft.
Furthermore, there are more and more echoes saying that in the skies of Syria, SU-30, and SU-35 toyed with the US F-22, EF-18, F-15.
Thus, the US and their allies are doing all their possibilities in order to debunk Russian industry, whatever the methods.
Hence Oryx, as a Nato service is participating in this task.

Oryx has been documenting equipment and losses with photograph material. It's one of the most reliable sources when it comes to equipment at least.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Oryx has been documenting equipment and losses with photograph material. It's one of the most reliable sources when it comes to equipment at least.

Most of the losses documented by Oryx are repairable and repaired in field or in a factory.