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Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

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Ahh... so su-30 faring bad in red flag was merely a poor piloting!

JF-17 may have lesser chance against any bvr so does is su-30 chances.
Jf-17 has inferior radar but it is very much off set by its smaller size and vice versa.

Now... when we talk about pure dog fight with guns... su-30 is a dead meat before it begins.
Off course this may happen rarely in modern warfare but it will happen every time su-30 cross the line.

This concludes that su-30 is not going to help win battels for india inside Pakistan air space.

I think i would disagree to that if you dont mind, in a pure dog fight there are few planes in the world that would be able to match up to the MKI because of its amazing agility. There are countless videos on the web showing the amazing turning and agility of the MKI, i doubt just because the JF-17 is lighter it can outmatch the MKI. It terms of agility and dog fight ability i would say only the typhoon and the f-22 are currently capable of standing up to the MKI ( Feel free to disagree). Again my point is that this is a wrong comparison, the MKI cannot be compared to the JF-17 because they are not the same class of aircraft. This is like comparing a bomber with a fighter and trying to figure out who is better. The MKI is air dominance and deep penetration aircraft where on the other hand jf-17 is a interceptor and is not meant to go deep into enemy territory, PAF has F-16 for that. The Mig-21 plays the same role for India. So we should stop comparing and trying to demean any one these wonderful aircraft. More suitable to compare the MKI with F-16 i guess. :cheers:
 
Now... when we talk about pure dog fight with guns... su-30 is a dead meat before it begins.
Why? Isn't the MKI more maneuverable, doesn't the MKI have a better t/w ratio and more speed? So why should the JF be better in a dog fight if it's capabilities are even inferior to PAFs F16s?
 
Why? Isn't the MKI more maneuverable, doesn't the MKI have a better t/w ratio and more speed? So why should the JF be better in a dog fight if it's capabilities are even inferior to PAFs F16s?

LOL WELL SAID

It is confusing sometimes when the PAF themselves say that the F-16 is their best and the F-16 itself inferior to the MKI, then how can the JF-17 be superior to the MKI when it not even the best aircraft that the PAF has. Can a pakistani brother shed some light on this ? no offence im just confused:undecided:
 
Why? Isn't the MKI more maneuverable, doesn't the MKI have a better t/w ratio and more speed? So why should the JF be better in a dog fight if it's capabilities are even inferior to PAFs F16s?

Because it will be a dog fight not formulae one!!!! not even at formulae one big engine and size is going to win you any race!

Now again you have to read all of my post.... and you should be able to get your answers... key word RED FLAG which is a glaring fact......but stubborness has its meaning..

BTW... what parameters help you conclude your judgement about manuverability?
 
Because it will be a dog fight not formulae one!!!! not even at formulae one big engine and size is going to win you any race!

Now again you have to read all of my post.... and you should be able to get your answers... key word RED FLAG which is a glaring fact......but stubborness has its meaning..

OMG not red flag again, i know people in the IAF and the news going around is that the video that became very popular on youtube and other sites criticizing the MKI was basically done to push India to speed up the MRCA deal and buy the F-16 or the F-18 which were involved in Red flag and supposedly "outmatched" the MKI. You must understand that the MKI was not allowed to use many of its lethal features to keep the real strength of the MKI hidden. ill quote wiki on this (which i know many wont agree to but ill try to find other sources ) -

The Sukhoi Su-30MKI is the most potent fighter jet in service with the Indian Air Force in the late 2000s.[31] The MKIs are often fielded by the IAF in bilateral and multilateral air exercises. India exercised its Su-30MKIs against the Royal Air Force's Tornado ADVs in October 2006.[32] This was the first large-scale bilateral aerial exercise with any foreign air force during which the IAF used its Su-30MKIs extensively. This exercise was also the first in 43 years with the RAF. During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI.[33] RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".[34]

In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise.[35][36] The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars.[37] During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.[38]

An earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, the MK, took part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04, where USAF F-15 Eagles were pitted against Indian Air Force Su-30MKs, Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and elderly MiG-21. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions".[39].In July 2008, the IAF sent 6 Su-30MKIs and 2 aerial-refueling tankers, the Il-78MKI, to participate in the Red Flag exercise.[40] In October 2008, a video surfaced on the internet which featured a USAF colonel, Corkey Fornoff, criticizing Su-30MKI's high friendly kill rate and serviceability issues during the Red Flag exercise.[41][42] Several of his claims were later rebutted by the Indian side, the USAF disassociated itself from his comments and it was stated that he did not even participate in the exercise. [43]


Again what i am saying is that dont undermine the MKI. Tech plays the most important roles in air warfare today, pilot skill is truly very imp but just with that you can dream of shooting down another way more advanced aircraft, it is was like that then we should also have JF-17 vs F-22 threads lol ? again i dont mean to offend anyone but i really annoys me when people just undermine the MKI. common people get over it, its the best in the subcontinent by far period.

Feel free to disagree, again no personal comments please. :pop:
 
can anyone plz explain this to me that if JF-17 is much more capable than Su-30 MKI then why China is not inducting JF-17 and why they rely on their 100 SU-30 MKK???

Thanks
 
Because it will be a dog fight not formulae one!!!! not even at formulae one big engine and size is going to win you any race!

Now again you have to read all of my post.... and you should be able to get your answers... key word RED FLAG which is a glaring fact......but stubborness has its meaning..

BTW... what parameters help you conclude your judgement about manuverability?

please read this article

Assessing JSF Air Combat Capabilities


it talks about how the MKI or its su-30 variants are even superior in many ways to the JSF and how the SU-30 family one of the best competitors against the F-22. I will find more links and post them up soon for those who doubt the accuracy of these links.:toast_sign:
 
Because it will be a dog fight not formulae one!!!! not even at formulae one big engine and size is going to win you any race!

Now again you have to read all of my post.... and you should be able to get your answers... key word RED FLAG which is a glaring fact......but stubborness has its meaning..

BTW... what parameters help you conclude your judgement about manuverability?
First of all, if you follow the formular one you should know what is possible with the biggest, or most powerful engine (Force India with Mercedes engines). ;)
Secondly I am not interested in blame games and Red Flag discussions, I am talking about JF 17 that didn't attend Red Flag and as I said is inferior in dog fights than F16s.
Those parameters that I mentioned, t/w ratio, speed and of course the benefits you get by using techs like canards, or TVC.
 
Why? Isn't the MKI more maneuverable, doesn't the MKI have a better t/w ratio and more speed? So why should the JF be better in a dog fight if it's capabilities are even inferior to PAFs F16s?

Who said its capabilities are inferior to the F-16. Dude you dont even know the specs of the JF-17 to begin with and here you are making tall assumptions about something you dont know squat about.:disagree:
I'll suggest you re read Sir Murad's comment about JF-17.
 
can anyone plz explain this to me that if JF-17 is much more capable than Su-30 MKI then why China is not inducting JF-17 and why they rely on their 100 SU-30 MKK???

Thanks

now that is a good question that members would find it difficult to answer........

actually your question brings this thread to an end ,if people tend
take this to their heads....
otherwise this thread with full of baseless rantlings will continue
 
First of all, if you follow the formular one you should know what is possible with the biggest, or most powerful engine (Force India with Mercedes engines). ;)
Secondly I am not interested in blame games and Red Flag discussions, I am talking about JF 17 that didn't attend Red Flag and as I said is inferior in dog fights than F16s.
Those parameters that I mentioned, t/w ratio, speed and of course the benefits you get by using techs like canards, or TVC.

lolzzz. Well this sums up about your knowledge on JF-17. No point in going any further.
Just a hint have you seen that video in which the comparision between F-16 and JF-17 is shown. I'll suggest you go and watch that before you make another stupid assumption.
 
can anyone plz explain this to me that if JF-17 is much more capable than Su-30 MKI then why China is not inducting JF-17 and why they rely on their 100 SU-30 MKK???

Thanks

Thats a stupid question to ask and has been answered many times. Different airforces have different requirements and just because PLAAF is not inducting it for NOW, does not automatically means that the jet is inferior.
 
2) "superior avionic" is good, but i'm affraid you have to be close enough, 80KM is the max rang of R77 and 50KM is the non-escapable rang, to launch the missiles. so even if there is no AWACS support, big targets like MKI will be deceted by MKK at least 150KMs away.
and if connected with AWACS datalink, even UAVs could take their shoot. a pistol is by far better than an sword, but a M4 is not that superior than a AK-47.

this was what i said in IAF vs PLAAF thread, and i think it would be almost the same for JF vs MKI. the only different is MKK can carry more R77 then JF17, so JF17 could definitely hold MKIs back if they have quantity edges
 
Thats a stupid question to ask and has been answered many times. Different airforces have different requirements and just because PLAAF is not inducting it for NOW, does not automatically means that the jet is inferior.

Now thats an stupid answer. At one time members say that JF-17 beat MKI in every field and at the same time you say China dont need it. My dear friend do you really think that if China can make a plane better than MKI, it will not immediately induct them into its forces?? It will give China an upper hand. Why they will go for other planes when they are themselves making good planes.

Indigenous production of JF-17 will definitely cost less to China and if JF-17 is better than they will get a better plane in less price and then why they opted for MKK and that too 100's of them???

I am not saying that JF-17 is a bad plane but dont you think that it raises serious doubt regarding comparing it with su-30. Instead China is developing a better plane to induct which will be definitely better than JF-17.

Thanks......
 
Ahh... so su-30 faring bad in red flag was merely a poor piloting!

JF-17 may have lesser chance against any bvr so does is su-30 chances.
Jf-17 has inferior radar but it is very much off set by its smaller size and vice versa.

Now... when we talk about pure dog fight with guns... su-30 is a dead meat before it begins.
Off course this may happen rarely in modern warfare but it will happen every time su-30 cross the line.

This concludes that su-30 is not going to help win battels for india inside Pakistan air space.

Can you prove that?..
 
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