Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[lionheart1]

Like I said, you are still wallowing in your anti-Islam hatred based on alleged events hundreds of years ago. For people like you the equation is simple:

Muslims invaded India, therefore
Muslims are evil, therefore
Anyone who kills Muslims is good.



To repeat, you claimed that only Arabs may care for Palestinians; anyone else who does is is being 'more Arab than Arabs'.
You see the Palestinian cause, not as human rights issue, but an Arab issue.
That shows your tendency to view the matter through a racial prism.



China's relationship with Israel is a separate subject and is part of a greater game of chess between China and the West. Given your ignorance of geopolitical issues outside of ancient India, I seriously doubt you would have the faintest clue what game is afoot there.



Not true.
I claim that Israel is anti-Muslim, but not everybody recognizes this fact.



Again not true.
I never claimed that countries that do business with Israel are anti-Islam; only that they wilfully ignore or rationalize away Israel's discriminatory policies.



Absolutely true. It doesn't mean all Muslims around the world since they have no interaction with Israel. But the Arabs were evicted from their homes in Palestine because they are Muslim (or Christian) and they are refused to return because they are Muslim (or Christian).

tell me why pakistani still have strategical relation with ameriaca,american have more blood of Muslim that any other country , but your country not only supporting but willingly participating in american war, by providing supply route protecting the supply route why ? even against the will of your own people

then according to you afgans are not muslims or according to you Palestine are only muslims , if not why this bias

you cannot deny that pakistani hand is also covered with blood of millions of innocent afghan's

so first correct your mistaken before piercing others

 

[angeldust]

Since this topic has anyways gone way off topic and we are now firmly entrenched in the morality and ethics of religion and people and nations, let me also add my two bits here. On a personal level, I have absolutely no issue with the Jews of Israel coming home and reclaiming their ancestral land. And you are absolutely right, it is a clash of religions. No two ways about it. The Israelis are not apologetic about their views. They discriminate on the basis of religion. Big deal. Are they the only nation that does so? Let him who is completely innocent cast the first stone here, and on the basis of our collective history of 5000 years my friends, none of us here should be casting any stones.

The history of mankind in general, and of the Promised Land in particular, is replete with examples of clash of religions and unimaginable violence and excesses of one over another. Subjugation being too mild a term. Total annihilation and geographical replacement being more the order of the day. The Jews were there first. Replaced by Christianity. Replaced by Islam. The Crusades. The Jihads. A see-saw battle for centuries. Between faiths. Between people. Between civilizations. Its happened before. Its going to happen again. Its happening today. The ebb and flow of religious power dynamics is not something new to us. Its something that is now part of the human collective unconscious. Some will be on the receiving end. And some will be dishing it out. And the roles will reverse many times. That is the only constant. Let us therefore cease to be ultra sanctimonious, and remember that in this world, in nature, what goes around come around.

 

[KS]

IntelliBriefs: How Israel helped India win the Kargil War

Tel Aviv stepped in with unmanned reconnaissance aircraft or drones in the battle zone to assist India direct its war effort. This was one force multiplication Pakistan had not reckoned with.
[...]
The Israeli Heron and Searcher UAVs were critically useful for target information, as most of India's aerial surveillance aircraft were either too quick, or vulnerable to enemy missile fire.

An Indian Air Force Canberra snooping over the Batalik was hit by a Pakistani stinger on May 21, exposing the limitations of India's photo reconnaissance platforms.

It was Israeli made - Not Israeli Air Force.

No, because as I explained in a previous post, China's handling of Uighurs cannot be compared even remotely to the Palestinian situation. It's a matter of degree.

For an Uighur getting his arse kicked that dgeree doesnt pass muster. Nor does your hypocrisy over here.

Not at all. I am not debating India's defence dealins with France or Germany or Russia or even the US.

The issue here is the uniquely evil nature of Israel and what it means to support such a regime.

As I have said it is none of India's concern what Israel does there or what the Hamas terrorists do. It is their damn problem.

As long as our Eltas and Phalcons arrive in time its business for us. Still not getting it ?

Regarding the political problem - our consistent stand is a two-state theory with the right for both the Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side. No one is going in to the sea.

 

[KS]

And Developero how about asking Kayani to stop the F-16s coming from US since it is the biggest supporter of evil Israel ?


http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/27309-should-pakistan-recognize-israel.html

And D, it seems even many of the educated Pakistanis dont share your 'principled' stand regarding Israel.

 

[LaBong]

Pakistan should be credited for cozy relationship of Israel and India, had Mush not tried to pull off Kargil stunt, India wouldn't have maintained such extensive military co-op with Israel.

 

[lionheart1]

just having strategical relation with Israel will not harm the cause of Palestine But, Israel have right to exist and no power in this world , can change the destiny of India or Israel ,

until palestine terrrorist backed by radical islamic groups stop attacking Israeli city's , israel will not stop destroying terror infrastructure in Palestine.
israel and india's relation is multi-dimensional and it is essential for long term goals of both the nations

 

[Wonderer]

And Developero how about asking Kayani to stop the F-16s coming from US since it is the biggest supporter of evil Israel ?

Its not 'blood money' as per him.

Bt I think if anything else is then it is.

Kill your people and get these birds in Reward.

 

[Developereo]

Here's some other info I had been meaning to post but didn't get around to.

Regarding Muslim attitudes towards Israel (unfortunately many Muslims have fallen for the religious angle pushed by Israel):
Before Israel’s Invasion, Hamas Popularity Was Waning Among Its Neighbors -- Even in Gaza Itself - Pew Research Center

Unsurprisingly, Muslim sympathies in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict lean heavily toward the Palestinians. For example, in Pew's 2007 survey more than 80% in Egypt, Morocco, Jordan and Kuwait said they sympathize more with the Palestinians. The only largely Muslim country included on the survey in which sympathy for Israel reached double figures was the African nation of Mali (13%).

Attitudes toward Jews in general are quite negative throughout much of the Muslim world. Unfavorable views of Jews were almost universal in the three Arab nations surveyed in 2008 -- Lebanon (97% unfavorable), Jordan (96%), and Egypt (95%). Opinions were only somewhat less negative in Pakistan (76% unfavorable), Turkey (76%), and Indonesia (66%).

Regarding Turkey's support for Israel:
Turkey, Israel & Jews

Another reason for Turkey’s relationship with Israel was the support which the Arab states gave the Greeks in their dispute with Turkey over Cyprus. Evidently the Arab states almost always voted at the United Nations general assembly in favor of the Greek Cypriots’ demands and against their Moslem brethren. This went so far that the Arabs, i.e. Egypt, Iraq and Syria, supported the United Nations resolution affirming the sovereignty of Greek dominated Cyprus and the illegality of Turkish intervention.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Before Israel’s Invasion, Hamas Popularity Was Waning Among Its Neighbors -- Even in Gaza Itself - Pew Research Center

Wow, the Israeli government really keeps shooting itself in the foot.

 

[LaBong]

Regarding Turkey's support for Israel:
Turkey, Israel & Jews

Another reason for Turkey’s relationship with Israel was the support which the Arab states gave the Greeks in their dispute with Turkey over Cyprus. Evidently the Arab states almost always voted at the United Nations general assembly in favor of the Greek Cypriots’ demands and against their Moslem brethren. This went so far that the Arabs, i.e. Egypt, Iraq and Syria, supported the United Nations resolution affirming the sovereignty of Greek dominated Cyprus and the illegality of Turkish intervention.

Arabs are best in the world when it comes to shooting their own feet!

El-Feki pointed to several reasons for this cosy relationship between India and Israel.

First, we have made the error of viewing the Indian-Pakistani conflict from an Islamic perspective. We have tried to "Islamise" the ongoing conflict in South Asia, posing as protectors of Islam and custodians of the international community. And we have overlooked the regional role of India, with Arab leaders showing up in New Delhi much less frequently than before.

Second, he wrote, was the rejection of India's application for membership of the OIC. "A country with 120 million Muslim citizens applied for membership and what happened? Islamic countries, in typical naiveté, rejected the Indian application, imagining this would please Pakistan and teach India a lesson," he said.

Third, according to El-Feki, after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, India moved closer to the US for both political and economic reasons. He argued: "I wouldn't be surprised to see India assume the role of a policeman in the Indian Ocean and the outskirts of the Gulf, with US blessing and with the aim of encircling so-called Islamic violence. This would be in harmony with Israel's agenda, and it may pave the way to a scheme of joint control over the Greater Middle East."

Making a strong case for an even-handed Arab approach towards India and Pakistan, the former ambassador to India recalled that during his time in India, the Palestinian ambassador to New Delhi enjoyed the privilege of meeting the Indian prime minister at any time he wished to do so. But as the Islamic phenomenon spread and some Arab policies acquired a religious tint, India grew visibly suspicious of the Arab and Islamic worlds. To make things worse, Arab diplomacy in India was lackadaisical over the past two decades ... We have lost India so far for no good reason, I should say .... It is time we mend this error. It is time to bring Arab countries closer to both India and Pakistan, rather than take one side or keep our distance altogether. I believe the Arabs have only themselves to blame for India's change of heart on the Palestinian question."

India's Israeli-Arab tightrope walk - Focus - Al Jazeera English

 

[KS]

Arabs are best in the world when it comes to shooting their own feet!

Do they know how to shoot ??

j/k.

 

[Developereo]

Most of these are off-topic but I will respond quickly...

tell me why pakistani still have strategical relation with ameriaca

and

And Developero how about asking Kayani to stop the F-16s coming from US since it is the biggest supporter of evil Israel ?
And D, it seems even many of the educated Pakistanis dont share your 'principled' stand regarding Israel.

Both these issues are debated hotly in several threads, as you guys know.
Given the past policies of Pakistani administrations, we are stuck with certain realities vis-a-vis our foreign dependence.

The Jews were there first. Replaced by Christianity. Replaced by Islam.
[...]
Let us therefore cease to be ultra sanctimonious, and remember that in this world, in nature, what goes around come around.

Agree with most of your post, except the part about Jews. There were Syrians, Canaanites and others living there before the Jews took over.

The Israeli position is that, out of 5000 years of history, the period of Jewish control of Palestine/Israel is 'special' and entitles the Jews to 'reclaim' that land. Evidently the Arabs living there for the last 2000 years doesn't count.

Pakistan should be credited for cozy relationship of Israel and India, had Mush not tried to pull off Kargil stunt, India wouldn't have maintained such extensive military co-op with Israel.

Exactly. The India-Israel military relationship is Pakistan-centric.

It was Israeli made - Not Israeli Air Force.

Was expecting something like that...
I never said IAF helped you out, I said Israel supplied you with high altitude aircraft.
You guys ridiculed my claim, and I proved you wrong.
Now I will sit back and enjoy as you try to wiggle out of it.

For an Uighur getting his arse kicked that dgeree doesnt pass muster. Nor does your hypocrisy over here.

Of course, when anyone suffers injustice, that situation is the world to them.

Every victim of any crime anywhere feels their situation is the most important. To a guy getting stabbed in an alley, it is a personal holocaust but, of course, the situation is not comparable.

As I have said it is none of India's concern what Israel does there or what the Hamas terrorists do. It is their damn problem.

As long as our Eltas and Phalcons arrive in time its business for us. Still not getting it ?

Regarding the political problem - our consistent stand is a two-state theory with the right for both the Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side. No one is going in to the sea.

Oh, I understand perfectly well that India is looking after its national interests. I never denied that.
My point is that India is sacrificing a moral stand for national interests.
Of course you are happy with the bargain, and of course it is beneficial to you -- that part was never under debate.

 

[Developereo]

"I believe the Arabs have only themselves to blame for India's change of heart on the Palestinian question"

What 'change of heart' is he talking about?

 

[LaBong]

Exactly. The India-Israel military relationship is Pakistan-centric.

That's the point, it started as Pakistan-centric not anti-Islamic centric, Pakistan isn't synonymous to Islam. Although in recent years it has seized to remain mono-dimensional as it had been before 2000.

 

[LaBong]

What 'change of heart' is he talking about?

There is no apparent change of heart as India still supports Palestine resolution in UN, it seems he's pointing out the fact that India now maintains a more balanced approach as opposed to her more favorable stance to Palestine in past.