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Stop maligning the military

^^^ Thankyou for the quickie in history, but what exactly what was your point?

Quoting incidents pre-talibnization of Pakistan and those that has no direct link with the recent drone attack or the R.Davis case would only reaffirm our stance whereby we reiterate that Pakistan Army is just doing its job under the umbrella of the democratically elected govt of Pakistan.

The Army owned that drone attack that killed 80 people, yes it did, it was later proven wrong and the Army faced the music for it.

The guy who snapped the pics of hellfire was killed, god knows by whom, but then what exactly is that you want to tell us by narrating the same old tales?

Yes the Army plays a vital role when it comes to dealing with the West as regards to WoT, but that doesnt mean that one should only blame the Army for certain decisions. One more thing, Army will only take responsibility of its actions that had fallen in its specific domain, R Davis case was the baby of this civilian govt, the ISI didnt give him the visa, nor the customs at the airports fall under Army, neither Army is responsible for what happens between R.Malik, Sir Haqqani and the Federal Govt - damn there's a functional govt you people have so longed for, now, take it up with them. Blame us when the GoP asks the PAF to take down the drones and the army to stop ground forces to enter Pakistan, and they refuse to obey it.

We dont care about anything ..and dont wanna hear any kind of blame game...
we just want any drone or aircraft entering into the country to kill innocent pplz be shot down at all cost ....otherwise u know Allah has wayz ..he is going to kick out the Army by the hands of their Gora Master(Bastrdz)....and Insha-Allah nobody will get even a chance to repent...:woot::cheesy:
If the Army cant do that they shold go home cuz they got no right for the pay ..its Haraam for them....period..:agree:
 
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Xeric... you are talking about corruption of civilian admin in our country... I never said that the civilian admin is angels and the Army is the only cause of our problem... The Army has its issues... It has produced people like Musharaf... there is something wrong with that picture sir...

I wont go into this on such a deep level... You have quoted your own experiences as an officer here... I just have this to say to you...

When you become a General inshaAllah... Dont spend all your money on huge houses and cars only... remember the poor people also... and dont invite some corrupt official to dinner again... If you invite me I ll be much better company... and we can sit on mats on the floor to eat...

When i joined the military i had a car and a something like a 'heavy bike', when i passed-out my parents wanted to give me a new 4-wheeler, i refused. As a 2/Lt i had been going to my unit on a bicycle. i had to take a loan from bank to get my first 'own' motor bike. Why? because i wanted to differ from those douchebags who would think of themselves as some lords on the basis of someone else's money or authority. i was happy for what i had. i was proud that i was standing on my feet, though my family could have sustained me for another decade or so, atleast. BTW, i gifted my first bicycle to one of my ex-batman, aisi laat kisi nay na mari hoge hatim tai ki kabar per, i bet.

When i was a YO, i was once posted at one of the hottest places this country has. We had 3 x air conditioners back at home then. Those who belonged to Karachi would know that people there would run ACs both in winters and summers, as the weather there isnt normally extreme. i too had been enjoying it. But when i got posted at that hot station life became miserable. Single storey BOQs, and subha sham ragra. i remember that when i used to go back home from there i would make sure that i slept in that little room which was away from the cool breeze of our ACs, why? Because i didnt want to get too used to the 'luxury' as i knew that after enjoying life for these 10 days of leave i have to go back to the same place where the MES pakha awaits me. i couldnt afford an AC then, though my parents could, but i always turned down their offer with the excuse that, ok you would get me an AC but who will afford the electric bill? People (friend and relatives) would call me an idiot back then, i know some here would still do the same, but then who cares? i remember we used to stay up late at nights and would exert during games so that we are sleepy and tired enough that once we took that last bath before getting into bed, we should be asleep well before our wet bodies and the water that we had poured on our beds had dried up because of the heat!! Or else if you couldnt sleep before this, the heat would not let you sleep, and you would again have to stand under the shower and repeat the process once more. We had mastered this to an extent that by the time we would wake up in the morning for PT, our bedsheets would be soaked wet by our sweat but we still managed to stay asleep. BTW, what's the max number of times you have taken a bath in one day? Mine is 10-14 :)

So, you still think i'll be spending money on huge houses and cars? Yes i would do it, only if it's my own money.

And oh yes, not that the military screws us only, i own a sedan now a days :)
 
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When i joined the military i had a car and a something like a 'heavy bike', when i passed-out my parents wanted to give me a new 4-wheeler, i refused. As a 2/Lt i had been going to my unit on a bicycle. i had to take a loan from bank to get my first 'own' motor bike. Why? because i wanted to differ from those douchebags who would think of themselves as some lords on the basis of someone else's money or authority. i was happy for what i had. i was proud that i was standing on my feet, though my family could have sustained me for another decade or so, atleast. BTW, i gifted my first bicycle to one of my ex-batman, aisi laat kisi nay na mari hoge hatim tai ki kabar per, i bet.

When i was a YO, i was once posted at one of the hottest places this country has. We had 3 x air conditioners back at home then. Those who belonged to Karachi would know that people there would run ACs both in winters and summers, as the weather there isnt normally extreme. i too had been enjoying it. But when i got posted at that hot station life became miserable. Single storey BOQs, and subha sham ragra. i remember that when i used to go back home from there i would make sure that i slept in that little room which was away from the cool breeze of our ACs, why? Because i didnt want to get too used to the 'luxury' as i knew that after enjoying life for these 10 days of leave i have to go back to the same place where the MES pakha awaits me. i couldnt afford an AC then, though my parents could, but i always turned down their offer with the excuse that, ok you would get me an AC but who will afford the electric bill? People (friend and relatives) would call me an idiot back then, i know some here would still do the same, but then who cares? i remember we used to stay up late at nights and would exert during games so that we are sleepy and tired enough that once we took that last bath before getting into bed, we should be asleep well before our wet bodies and the water that we had poured on our beds had dried up because of the heat!! Or else if you couldnt sleep before this, the heat would not let you sleep, and you would again have to stand under the shower and repeat the process once more. We had mastered this to an extent that by the time we would wake up in the morning for PT, our bedsheets would be soaked wet by our sweat but we still managed to stay asleep. BTW, what's the max number of times you have taken a bath in one day? Mine is 10-14 :)

So, you still think i'll be spending money on huge houses and cars? Yes i would do it, only if it's my own money.

And oh yes, not that the military screws us only, i own a sedan now a days :)

I am proud of you Sir... I salute you... may God bless you and may he sustain you and your family... and may we have people like you as our leaders instead of Musharaf!!!!

btw... my record for max showers is 9 times :)
 
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We dont care about anything ..and dont wanna hear any kind of blame game...
we just want any drone or aircraft entering into the country to kill innocent pplz be shot down at all cost ....otherwise u know Allah has wayz ..he is going to kick out the Army by the hands of their Gora Master(Bastrdz)....and Insha-Allah nobody will get even a chance to repent...:woot::cheesy:
If the Army cant do that they shold go home cuz they got no right for the pay ..its Haraam for them....period..:agree:

Or how about faking some operation where some people attack a depot base and steal a lot of anti aircraft ammunition... Pak Army can deny shooting down any drones and tell Americans that people stole some weapons...

Where there is a will there is a way... the problem is the top brass of the Army has its head (and heart) somewhere else instead of at home...
 
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Whats up with this Najam Sethi guy? He was banned in Pakistan during the nineteen ninetees for giving an anti-pakistan statement in India. A total anti-Islam , anti-Pakistan guy having hey day on mainstream tv. Pakistan's Jihad against Islam is going really well i guess.
 
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Or how about faking some operation where some people attack a depot base and steal a lot of anti aircraft ammunition... Pak Army can deny shooting down any drones and tell Americans that people stole some weapons...

Where there is a will there is a way... the problem is the top brass of the Army has its head (and heart) somewhere else instead of at home...
Listen brother; These kinds of views are childish in nature.

The Drone Campaign is beign carried out with consent of our military establishment and also our political leadership. Only thing is that this support is 'not officially recognized' and is covert in nature.

Military establishment is actually benefiting from this campaign. Our military does not needs to send its soldiers to kill or apprehend the terrorists hiding in our territory. This strategy minimizes the casaulties and costs on our side.

Yes! Their are some cases of bad intel. However, do not forget that Pak media commits propaganda too.

On a positive note: lots of terrorists (including Baitullah Mehsud) have been taken out via this campaign.
 
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I want to see the military under civilian control as much as anyone. The question is why doesn't it happen. We have seen the representatives of democraticpolitical parties agreeing that military needs to stop interfering. Then simply make changes to the Constitution to regard any coup as treason against Pakistan.

Question is; why isn't this happening?

The answer is that our political leadership needs someone with whom they can share their concern for Pakistan's safety. They need someone's shoulder to cry on.

How many parties out there can honestly claim that they've never aimed at getting support from the military? Name any major political party out there and you'll see their history with the military. There are only a handful of true grass-roots level parties out there.
A large part of our politicians are hypocrites. They all claim to be supporters of democracy while maintaing a feudal hold on their parties. Any voice of dissent is silenced.

It is true that some of the Generals may have crossed their limits, but they were led into this government scenario by our very democratic parties.

If there is someone to blame, then it has to be the current government who despite enjoying an unprecedented support from various groups, still won't take steps to prevent future coups. Truth is; they want that option if their opponents get to power.
 
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Would have made sense if I supported the civilian rulers of Pakistan...

You don't support the civilians running the country and you obviously don't support the military - so what does that leave us? Train some monkey's to do it? Would that be acceptable or is that still too highly evolved a primate for you?
 
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We dont care about anything ..and dont wanna hear any kind of blame game...
we just want any drone or aircraft entering into the country to kill innocent pplz be shot down at all cost
Then please tell Zardari sahib and the PPP to change their position:

Some ”revelations” are less surprising, such as Zardari’s government signing off on controversial drone attacks while simultaneously condemning them as a breach of sovereignty, confirming analysts’ suspicions. "I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it,” he was quoted as saying in a cable.

Zardari’s political opponents may find it hard to extract mileage from the revelations, however. Opposition leader Mr. Sharif, who plays on anti-Americanism to cement his base with the Pakistani right, repeatedly reassured Ambassador Patterson of his “pro-American” credentials in a February 2008 cable. And according to the Guardian newspaper, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, leader of the country’s largest Islamist party, hosted a dinner for the ambassador where he solicited her backing for becoming prime minister, and made it clear that his votes were “up for sale.”​

When Musharraf was in charge blaming the Army for the drone strikes was fine. Since the civvies are in charge now, please ask Zardari and Gillani sahib (the leaders elected by Pakistanis) to change their stance on Drones and order the Army to stop the attacks. If then the Army fails to do so, I'll condemn the Army with you, but till then, this is the responsibility of the civilian leadership, not the military.
 
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You don't support the civilians running the country and you obviously don't support the military - so what does that leave us? Train some monkey's to do it? Would that be acceptable or is that still too highly evolved a primate for you?

Exactly what we have today: Foreign Servitude.
 
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Musey please suggest us an (workable) alternative. May be confronting a superpower would do, right?

If not, then dont complain, please.

Musey has no answer - he is basically asking for the military to overrule the civilian government on issues such as the release of Davis, drone attacks, poor law enforcement and prosecution of militants.

Just for a moment assume that our Army and ISI were the most subservient and docile Army and intelligence ever seen on the planet. What would the policies formulated by the current civilian government, completely free of any possible Army pressure or influence, be?

I have posted Zardaris quotes on the drone strikes above (several times) I think that should leave no doubt in any rational reader's mind that Zardari/Gillani and the PPP would NEVER consider stopping drone attacks by the US.

Similarly, look at the chain of events leading up to the release of Raymond Davis - Zardari fired Qureshi for opposing the release of Davis, and Qureshi revealed that Zardari and other high level PPP leaders wanted to grant diplomatic immunity to Davis in order to maintain US aid and economic support. So, even if we had the most subservient and uninfluential military in the world, Davis would have been released, and probably released a couple of days after his arrest.

So what exactly is 'Musey' asking for here? The civilian leadership, going by their own words and actions on these two extremely high profile issues, is going to whore itself to the US even more than it is in the current situation. So why is he (and others) all of a sudden on this 'bash Army agenda'?

1. They want the Army to intervene
2. They are anti-Army opportunists who see this as a good opportunity to weaken the Army's domestic standing and hid the failures of the civilian PPP government.
 
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Exactly what we have today: Foreign Servitude.

Riggght, from a rhetorical POV - but I doubt that is what MBQ want's either.

My point is that if he does not want civilians ruling us and does not want the military ruling us - who does he want?

I think we know the answer, and that answer also explains his anti-Army positions - they certainly are not out of a love for democracy, freedom and progressive values.
 
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Riggght, from a rhetorical POV - but I doubt that is what MBQ want's either.

My point is that if he does not want civilians ruling us and does not want the military ruling us - who does he want?

I think we know the answer, and that answer also explains his anti-Army positions - they certainly are not out of a love for democracy, freedom and progressive values.

AM: I don't speak for anyone else, but I honestly tried to find the answer to that question, among many others, for many many years before I reluctantly decided to emigrate. I don't think that anybody is likely to find a workable solution, as much as one is needed so direly.

Please note I am not against the military, coming from a military family myself. I am also very honest is recognizing my failures in adapting to the prevailing situation in Pakistan that led to my emigration, and also in saying that I, and others like me, have no moral authority to tell people who are living there anything. What I do want to do is to help if I can, if I am allowed to, that is all, should a miracle occur.
 
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khilafut is the way to go will solve all the problems and for the seculars who are afrId of it don't be because everyone gets equal rights in Islam !!! you will have more freedom of speech Nd less corruption
 
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khilafut is the way to go will solve all the problems and for the seculars who are afrId of it don't be because everyone gets equal rights in Islam !!! you will have more freedom of speech Nd less corruption

I disagree with that contention.
 
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