SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf

[fatman17]

SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf

'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue'

Pervez Musharraf: "We poisoned Pakistani civil society for 10 years."

Pakistan trained militant underground groups to fight against India in Kashmir, former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf admitted in an interview with SPIEGEL. In addition, the 67-year-old explains why he wants to leave his exile in London and return to his country.

SPIEGEL: Pakistanis have been left bewildered by the incompetence of the government led by President Asif Ali Zardari in dealing with the consequences of the disastrous floods. Do you expect another military coup soon?


Musharraf: Whenever the country is in turmoil, everybody looks to the army. But I would suggest that the times of military coups in Pakistan are over. The latest political developments have shown that the Supreme Court has set a bar on itself not to validate a military takeover.

SPIEGEL: How would you judge the performance of your successor, Zardari, and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani?

Musharraf: I do not want to comment on the present government, but everybody can see what they are doing. Pakistan is experiencing a deep economic decline -- in other areas, as well. Law and order are in jeopardy, extremism is on the rise and there is political turmoil. The non-performance of an elected government is the issue.

SPIEGEL: How do you view the role of General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the man considered to be pulling the strings in Pakistan?

Musharraf: I made him chief of the army, because I thought that he was the best man for the job.

SPIEGEL: When Pakistan's rulers lose power, they traditionally get imprisoned or murdered by their rivals. Why are you founding a party to, once again, get involved in politics instead of enjoying retirement in London, which is at least a safe place?

Musharraf: No risk, no gain. We unfortunately have a culture of vendetta and vindictiveness in Pakistan. But there is no case of corruption or fraud or anything against me at the moment. My political opponents, especially Nawaz Sharif, would love to create a case against me -- that I am corrupt or have committed fraud or some such. They do their best to achieve that, but they haven't succeeded. Even if they did, I would reply in court. Risks need to be taken.

SPIEGEL: Why do you believe that Pakistanis are keenly awaiting your political comeback?

Musharraf: I am not living a hermit's life, I meet people here and in Dubai and receive accurate feedback. I launched my Facebook page eight months ago and today I have more than 315,000 fans. And hundreds of Pakistanis called into a TV show in which I collected money for the flood victims. They donated $3.5 million. Do you think they are doing this because they hate me?

SPIEGEL: Is there anything that you regret -- for example, your secret Kargil Operation, which led to an armed conflict with India in 1999, your arbitrary changes to Pakistan's constitution, your dismissal of the country's highest judge, the lack of concern for Benazir Bhutto's life after her return or your oft-criticized mild treatment of religious militants?

Musharraf: The West blames Pakistan for everything. Nobody asks the Indian prime minister, Why did you arm your country with a nuclear weapon? Why are you killing innocent civilians in Kashmir? Nobody was bothered that Pakistan got split in 1971 because of India's military backing for Bangladesh (which declared independence from Pakistan that year). The United States and Germany gave statements, but they didn't mean anything. Everybody is interested in strategic deals with India, but Pakistan is always seen as the rogue.

SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?


Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.

Musharraf: The West was ignoring the resolution of the Kashmir issue, which is the core issue of Pakistan. We expected the West -- especially the United States and important countries like Germany -- to resolve the Kashmir issue. Has Germany done that?

Part 2: 'I'm Earning Good Money Here in London, But Pakistan Is My Country'


SPIEGEL: Does that give Pakistan the right to train underground fighters?

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner.

SPIEGEL: And how can a nuclear arsenal be safe when high-ranking officers support proliferation or even personally profit from it, as has been alleged? The nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan claims that the Pakistani army monitored and organized deals with countries like North Korea and Iran.

Musharraf: That is wrong, absolutely wrong. Mr. Khan is a characterless man.

SPIEGEL: What did the United States offer you in exchange for getting control of the nuclear weapons in Pakistan?

Musharraf: I would be a traitor if I had ever given our nuclear weapons to the United States. This capability is our pride and it will never be compromised.

SPIEGEL: A German member of the militant Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, 36-year-old Ahmad Sidiqi, who has been held by US forces in Afghanistan since July, allegedly told his American interrogators that he was trained in Pakistan and confessed there were plans to attack Europe. Why, nine years after 9/11, does Pakistan remain a breeding ground for international terrorism?

Musharraf: We poisoned Pakistani civil society for 10 years when we fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. It was jihad and we brought in militants from all over the world, with the West and Pakistan together in the lead role. After the withdrawal of the Soviet troops, the West left Pakistan with 25,000 mujahedeen and al-Qaida fighters, without any plan for rehabilitation or resettlement. While you were mostly concerned with the reunification of Germany, we had to cope with this. Now you expect Pakistan to pull out a magic wand and make all of this suddenly disappear? That is not doable -- this will take time.

SPIEGEL: How can the problem be solved?

Musharraf: The West made three blunders so far: After the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, they abandoned the region in 1989. Then, after 9/11, they fought the Taliban instead of strengthening the Pashtuns who could have taken on the radical Taliban. Now you try to negotiate with so-called "moderate Taliban," but there is no such thing as a moderate Taliban. There are Taliban and Pashtuns. But as I have always said: All Taliban are Pashtun, but not all Pashtun people are Taliban. Again, you should reinforce the ancient Pashtun clans who are not ideologically aligned with the Taliban to govern Afghanistan and to fight the Taliban. That's my strong advice. The fourth and worst blunder would be to quit without winning. Then militancy will prevail not only in Pakistan, India and Kashmir, but perhaps also in Europe, the United Kingdom and in the United States. That's my belief.

SPIEGEL: The al-Qaida chief in Pakistan, Sheikh Fateh al Masri, was recently killed in a US drone attack in North Waziristan. Many al-Qaida leaders are sheltered by the Haqqani network (of warlord Jalaluddin Haqqani). How serious is Pakistan about fighting a former mujahedeen heroes like Haqqani and his son Siraj?

Musharraf: If you hear the new statements from the West that they plan to withdraw their troops and leave Afghanistan in 2011, then Pakistan should think of how to handle the withdrawal scenario. Pakistan needs to find a strategy for its existence, how to tackle the situation with Seraj Haqqani, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the Pakistani Taliban and Mullah Omar. When the West quits, we will be on our own with them.

SPIEGEL: Do you not fear that when you return to Pakistan, you might face the same fate as Benazir Bhutto, who was murdered in a suicide attack?

Musharraf: Yes, that is a risk, but it won't stop me. I am happy here in London. I am earning good money, but Pakistan is my country.

Interview conducted by Susanne Koelbl

ABOUT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF
Pervez Musharraf, 67, stepped down as president of Pakistan in 2008 following months of protests. He had taken power after a military putsch in 1999. Since his resignation, Musharraf has spent most of his time in London. In the event of his return to Pakistan, Musharraf is threatened with numerous court cases connected to the massive manipulations he resorted to in order to stay in power for so long.

 

[Awesome]

A lot of people are focusing on "We trained militants against India" comment, however if you read the full interview he mentioned quite clearly that it is only Kashmir specific and attacking Indian soldiers in Kashmir in every way possible is our right, since India refuses to give Kashmiris freedom peacefully.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?


Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.

the part that I wanted to discuss in another thread, here Musharraf is sensible enough to admit that pakistan had trained militants...and not that they were freedom fighters from kashmir as they keep saying in all other kashmir related threads.

 

[Awesome]

the part that I wanted to discuss in another thread, here Musharraf is sensible enough to admit that pakistan had trained militants...and not that they were freedom fighters from kashmir as they keep saying in all other kashmir related threads.

lol, clutching at straws are we?

Militant is a vocation - Freedom is a goal which makes the militancy specific to freedom fighting.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

If you sell Garments or you sell cars, you're a salesman. But your goals will define you either as a Garments salesman or Car salesman

 

[karan.1970]

A lot of people are focusing on "We trained militants against India" comment, however if you read the full interview he mentioned quite clearly that it is only Kashmir specific and attacking Indian soldiers in Kashmir in every way possible is our right, since India refuses to give Kashmiris freedom peacefully.

Trained militants and terrorists are not like a bullet that can be targeted at a single target. They are like throwing in a hand grenade that hurts everything (friend, foe, civilian, army) in the blast radius. So the logic of militants being trained only for Kashmir and that too to attack just the armed forces is flawed and self serving.

The best and most ironical example is visible in Pakistan itself where its the remanants of Pakistan trained militants against USSR that have now trained their guns on Pakistan it self.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

lol, clutching at straws are we?

Militant is a vocation - Freedom is a goal which makes the militancy specific to freedom fighting.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

If you sell Garments or you sell cars, you're a salesman. But your goals will define you either as a Garments salesman or Car salesman

are you pretending to not understand what I mean in that post ??

freedom fighters - when the people from kashmir itself voluntarily take up arms for the freedom...militancy - when terrorist from a different land trained by another country infiltrate with a motive of just killing about anyone.

 

[Awesome]

Trained militants and terrorists are not like a bullet that can be targeted at a single target. They are like throwing in a hand grenade that hurts everything (friend, foe, civilian, army) in the blast radius. So the logic of militants being trained only for Kashmir and that too to attack just the armed forces is flawed and self serving.

The best and most ironical example is visible in Pakistan itself where its the remanants of Pakistan trained militants against USSR that have now trained their guns on Pakistan it self.

Well now no one is going to give you the specifics of where the guys doing the fighting are coming from in Pakistan and what sort of training they are getting. I personally would prefer if the regulars infiltrate the Indian controlled areas and engage in guerrilla warfare against the IA.

The only demonstrable evidence of Pakistan infiltrated militants predominantly indicated that PA was directly involved - during Kargil.

Also Musharraf was talking about incidents 10 years ago, currently the militancy is at an all time low with no one taking Indian claims of Pakistan sponsored militancy seriously.

India is only interested in highlighting this very very passing comment by Musharraf to discredit the riots and discontent that the Kashmiris have for India.

 

[Awesome]

are you pretending to not understand what I mean in that post ??

freedom fighters - when the people from kashmir itself voluntarily take up arms for the freedom...militancy - when terrorist from a different land trained by another country infiltrate with a motive of just killing about anyone.

Are you pretending there are no Kashmiris involved in the fight? Also Kashmiris are there on both sides of the LoC.

 

[ek_indian]

SPIEGEL: Is there anything that you regret -- for example, your secret Kargil Operation, which led to an armed conflict with India in 1999, your arbitrary changes to Pakistan's constitution, your dismissal of the country's highest judge, the lack of concern for Benazir Bhutto's life after her return or your oft-criticized mild treatment of religious militants?

Musharraf: The West blames Pakistan for everything. Nobody asks the Indian prime minister, Why did you arm your country with a nuclear weapon? Why are you killing innocent civilians in Kashmir? Nobody was bothered that Pakistan got split in 1971 because of India's military backing for Bangladesh (which declared independence from Pakistan that year). The United States and Germany gave statements, but they didn't mean anything. Everybody is interested in strategic deals with India, but Pakistan is always seen as the rogue.

What is the question and what is the answer. That shows his level.
BTW, how exactly Kargil helped Pakistan in anyway? The world might not be hearing any voices at that time. But after this, world starts hearing India's voice more so often.

Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

And they think they can force India through this way!!

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner.

This should be applied to all nations.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Are you pretending there are no Kashmiris involved in the fight? Also Kashmiris are there on both sides of the LoC.

ofourse there are kashmiris on both the sides...but kashmiris from the land occupied by pakistan,trained by pakistani army for mass killings and not for the sake of freedom. and do talk about other militants from Pakistan itself....soldiers from PA...who infiltrate into Indian land ...not all are from kashmir on the other side.

 

[Illusive]

And add to this too that Pakistan sent militants to India and backed terrorism against India to revive Pakistan's interest in Kashmir.

 

[karan.1970]

Well now no one is going to give you the specifics of where the guys doing the fighting are coming from in Pakistan and what sort of training they are getting. I personally would prefer if the regulars infiltrate the Indian controlled areas and engage in guerrilla warfare against the IA.

If you mean PA regulars wearing PA uniforms... Then for whatever its worth, my respect for Pakistan and its army/govt will grow manifold. But Pakistan chose the way then which now is labled as terrorism..

The only demonstrable evidence of Pakistan infiltrated militants predominantly indicated that PA was directly involved - during Kargil.

And now an admission by the chief architect of Pakistan sponsored militancy/terrorism in India in the 21st century

Also Musharraf was talking about incidents 10 years ago, currently the militancy is at an all time low with no one taking Indian claims of Pakistan sponsored militancy seriously.

Its at an all time low, but still exists in terms of border encounters every now and then. This year it seems to be going up a bit .. And I am not refering to the riots and civilian unrest..

India is only interested in highlighting this very very passing comment by Musharraf to discredit the riots and discontent that the Kashmiris have for India.

Its not a passing comment at all. Its the 2nd time admission from Musharraf of actively contributing to armed foreign insurgency in India.

I for one dont believe this has any linkages to the current riots that happened in Kashmir

 

[Durran3]

FROST OVER THE WORLD MUSHARRAFF INTERVEW

 

[Developereo]

I feel sad for the Kashmiri people. For decades now, they have resisted Indian tyranny and paid with their blood, waiting and hoping that Pakistan would help liberate them.

But all we do is send them guns, when it is clear to everyone that guns alone will never solve the problem. The most important contribution they need from Pakistan, and which we have utterly failed to deliver, is international recognition of their struggle and international diplomatic pressure on India to address their demands.

The Pakistani policy on Kashmir is running on auto-pilot, still pursuing a decades old policy which does not take into account India's increasing clout on the world stage. We need to, we must, counter that clout by becoming an economic powerhouse ourselves. I hope we realize where the future is headed before it catches us unawares.

 

[hecj]

lol, clutching at straws are we?

Militant is a vocation - Freedom is a goal which makes the militancy specific to freedom fighting.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

If you sell Garments or you sell cars, you're a salesman. But your goals will define you either as a Garments salesman or Car salesman

how can u say?during his visit to BD ,he met to the different morons who were spreading insurgency in east india.so where is kashmir and east india??.pak policy have remained to bleed india as far as possible.have u forgotten the insurgency supported in punjab??.
now where is kashmir???