SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf

[karan.1970]

I feel sad for the Kashmiri people. For decades now, they have resisted Indian tyranny and paid with their blood, waiting and hoping that Pakistan would help liberate them.

But all we do is send them guns, when it is clear to everyone that guns alone will never solve the problem. The most important contribution they need from Pakistan, and which we have utterly failed to deliver, is international recognition of their struggle and international diplomatic pressure on India to address their demands.

The Pakistani policy on Kashmir is running on auto-pilot, still pursuing a decades old policy which does not take into account India's changing clout on the world stage. I hope we realize where the future is headed before it catches us unawares.

The part in bold above is actually contradiction in terms. The biggest reason why this approach fails is that because its Pakistan (with a vested interest) that is trying to highlight this. And because of the vested interest, this becomes more of a bilateral and not an international issue. Its a catch 22 for Pakistan. The issue of Kashmir can give India sleepless nights if Pakistan removes itself publically from the equation and the world still sees such protests going on in the state.

Howver if that happens, then Pakistan has nothing left to gain and hence it can not follow that approach.

So in a nutshell, its Pakistan's own interests that have doomed the so called Kashmir struggle to failure.

And the funny thing is that Pakistan knows this. But its a devils alternative.

Does Pakistan hate India enough to give up its claim to Kashmir to increase the chances of Kashmir getting separated from India.

The day the answer to above becomes YES, we will see some changes in that area. Till then, this will go on till one of our countries bleeds out economically..

 

[Awesome]

ofourse there are kashmiris on both the sides...but kashmiris from the land occupied by pakistan,trained by pakistani army for mass killings and not for the sake of freedom. and do talk about other militants from Pakistan itself....soldiers from PA...who infiltrate into Indian land ...not all are from kashmir on the other side.

Killing Indian soldiers in mass is legitimate. Since the Indian soldiers are killing Kashmiri civilians in mass.

 

[karan.1970]

Killing Indian soldiers in mass is legitimate. Since the Indian soldiers are killing Kashmiri civilians in mass.

Strawman arguement.. You use the UN resolution to distinguish between Kashmir and Balochistan. But the UN does not recognize the legitimacy of killing Indian soldiers thru Pakistani sponsored militancy.

You cant have your cake and eat it too..

 

[Illusive]

I feel sad for the Kashmiri people. For decades now, they have resisted Indian tyranny and paid with their blood, waiting and hoping that Pakistan would help liberate them.

But all we do is send them guns, when it is clear to everyone that guns alone will never solve the problem. The most important contribution they need from Pakistan, and which we have utterly failed to deliver, is international recognition of their struggle and international diplomatic pressure on India to address their demands.

The Pakistani policy on Kashmir is running on auto-pilot, still pursuing a decades old policy which does not take into account India's increasing clout on the world stage. We need to, we must, counter that clout by becoming an economic powerhouse ourselves. I hope we realize where the future is headed before it catches us unawares.

Not only have you failed, but your policies are backfiring you big time.
Your country has got a bad name in international politics, and it'd be even worse after what musharraf has conveyed.

And if Pakistan has to grow economically, then it has to leave Kashmir or let it on standby mode. And if this happens, then India will get further grip on Kashmir issue.

Ultimately the query pops up for Pakistanis, is Kashmir more important to you than Pakistan?

 

[Illusive]

Killing Indian soldiers in mass is legitimate. Since the Indian soldiers are killing Kashmiri civilians in mass.

Those militants have taken lives of innocent Indian citizens apart from soldiers, you call that legitimate.

 

[Spring Onion]

A lot of people are focusing on "We trained militants against India" comment, however if you read the full interview he mentioned quite clearly that it is only Kashmir specific and attacking Indian soldiers in Kashmir in every way possible is our right, since India refuses to give Kashmiris freedom peacefully.

Kashmir is NOT part of India so no question of terrorism. its simple clean freedom movement.

Secondly Indian State Terrorism openly in East Pakistan entitles everyone to have the same in India itself.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Killing Indian soldiers in mass is legitimate. Since the Indian soldiers are killing Kashmiri civilians in mass.

sorry...are you saying killing Indian soldiers and civilians in by PA soldiers in in disguise of freedom fighters is legitimate ??

anyways you have deviated from the actual debate of your the difference between your so called freedom fighters and the terrorists/militants. got to go for now.

 

[Developereo]

The part in bold above is actually contradiction in terms. The biggest reason why this approach fails is that because its Pakistan (with a vested interest) that is trying to highlight this.

On the contrary, if Pakistan were to dissociate itself from Kashmir, then it would be perceived as an internal matter for India, like the Maoists or Assamese struggle. This would give India license to ratchet up the brutuality even more, away from the world's eye -- like southern Thailand or northern Burma.

Howver if that happens, then Pakistan has nothing left to gain and hence it can not follow that approach.

That assumes that the Kashmiri struggle for independence is not indigenous, but is fueled by Pakistan. I know that this is the official Indian position, but that doesn't make it true. The Kashmiris have an ironclad guarantee that we will always stand with them in their struggle.

Not only have you failed, but your policies are backfiring you big time.
Your country has got a bad name in international politics, and it'd be even worse after what musharraf has conveyed.

The international demonization has to do with Afghanistan (Taliban), not Kashmir (LET).

And if Pakistan has to grow economically, then it has to leave Kashmir or let it on standby mode.

I don't see how abandoning Kashmir is a prerequisite for economic growth.

Ultimately the query pops up for Pakistanis, is Kashmir more important to you than Pakistan?

Kashmir is the part of Pakistan currently occupied by India. It's like asking if Sindh is more important than Pakistan.

 

[justanobserver]

Kashmir is the part of Pakistan currently occupied by India.

So much for the 'right to self determination'

 

[Developereo]

So much for the 'right to self determination'

They are the ones celebrating 14th August, carrying Pakistani flags, and chanting 'jaan sey pyara Pakistan'.

 

[karan.1970]

On the contrary, if Pakistan were to dissociate itself from Kashmir, then it would be perceived as an internal matter for India, like the Maoists or Assamese struggle. This would give India license to ratchet up the brutuality even more, away from the world's eye -- like southern Thailand or northern Burma.

Maoists are not asking for a separate state. Simply a different form of govt. But even by your example, today, the maoist movement in India has greater legitimacy than the so called Azadi movement in Kashmir because most of the world sees it as a land grab attempt by Pakistan and the rest of it sees it as a planned revenge of 1971

That assumes that the Kashmiri struggle for independence is not indigenous, but is fueled by Pakistan. I know that this is the official Indian position, but that doesn't make it true. The Kashmiris have an ironclad guarantee that we will always stand with them in their struggle.

Your ex president has twice admitted that it is not indigenous. and that Pakistan trained miliitants to infiltrate and cause maheym..

The international demonization has to do with Afghanistan (Taliban), not Kashmir (LET).

Its more of Pakistan's affinity to the approach of using militants/insurgents (labled terrorists in the new world order) as instruments of state policy. Applies to Afghanistan as well as India

I don't see how abandoning Kashmir is a prerequisite for economic growth.

There is a thread that I created months back called Monkey Trap. Its a 10 year old article and predicts the situation Pakistan is in today. I found it extremely insightful..

Kashmir is the part of Pakistan currently occupied by India. It's like asking if Sindh is more important than Pakistan.

We can go about it all day long. From where I stand, P OK and G&B are parts of India currently occupied by Pakistan. However, the writ of Pakistan's does not apply to J&K and hence comparison with Sindh is flawed

 

[Awesome]

Strawman arguement.. You use the UN resolution to distinguish between Kashmir and Balochistan. But the UN does not recognize the legitimacy of killing Indian soldiers thru Pakistani sponsored militancy.

You cant have your cake and eat it too..

The UN recognizes the illegitimacy of the Indian soldiers being there and calling for a troop minimization up to 18,000 Indian troops in all of Kashmir.

If India violates that then its open for all, whoever can kill as many of each other, India will always be the initiator of hostilities since it is the one who is crippling the peaceful method of allowing a plebiscite in Kashmir.

 

[Illusive]

The international demonization has to do with Afghanistan (Taliban), not Kashmir (LET).

Those are similar policies directed towards foreign countries for Pakistan interests.

I don't see how abandoning Kashmir is a prerequisite for economic growth.

Friendship with India, you can gain much more from India than from Kashmir.

Kashmir is the part of Pakistan currently occupied by India. It's like asking if Sindh is more important than Pakistan.

You are stating as if Kashmir is under Pakistan's control.

 

[karan.1970]

The UN recognizes the illegitimacy of the Indian soldiers being there and calling for a troop minimization up to 18,000 Indian troops in all of Kashmir.

If India violates that then its open for all, whoever can kill as many of each other, India will always be the initiator of hostilities since it is the one who is crippling the peaceful method of allowing a plebiscite in Kashmir.

Show me.. where does UN says that?? I mean without Pakistan removing its forces from the Pakistani side of Kashmir...Half truths dont always work

 

[Von Hölle]

Kashmir is NOT part of India so no question of terrorism. its simple clean freedom movement.

Secondly Indian State Terrorism openly in East Pakistan entitles everyone to have the same in India itself.

So now that you have had your chance ..you won't mind if Indian does it again in Pakistan!!..It only fair ..now that you are openly supporting terrorism..you won't mind Indian interference in Pakistan??