SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf

[Awesome]

Show me.. where does UN says that?? I mean without Pakistan removing its forces from the Pakistani side of Kashmir...Half truths dont always work

Pakistan is ready to minimize its troops if India does so. Pakistan will reduce its forces to 6000, India to 18000. Essentially just a policing force. UN says that, read all the resolutions, not just the one that says Pakistan has to withdraw its forces, read the resolution that says both have to essentially withdraw occupation forces and maintain those numbers.

 

[shekhar]

Are you pretending there are no Kashmiris involved in the fight? Also Kashmiris are there on both sides of the LoC.

one counter question
are there no pakistani in BLA?

i think Indian involvement in Baluchistan and Afghan is justified now

 

[Developereo]

most of the world sees it as a land grab attempt by Pakistan and the rest of it sees it as a planned revenge of 1971

That is the Indian position and, I will concede, some countries will parrot that view in light of India's economic clout. Hence my point about the need to fight India on the economics playing field.

Your ex president has twice admitted that it is not indigenous. and that Pakistan trained miliitants to infiltrate and cause maheym..

No, he admitted providing support. Support does not imply genesis.

Its more of Pakistan's affinity to the approach of using militants/insurgents (labled terrorists in the new world order) as instruments of state policy. Applies to Afghanistan as well as India

Not really. Most of the world is only concerned about terrorists (AQ and gang).

The Kashmiri freedom fighters are off the radar for them.

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan is ready to minimize its troops if India does so. Pakistan will reduce its forces to 6000, India to 18000. Essentially just a policing force. UN says that, read all the resolutions, not just the one that says Pakistan has to withdraw its forces, read the resolution that says both have to essentially withdraw occupation forces and maintain those numbers.

But Pakistan's reduction of forces is a prerequisite since Pakistan was the aggressor in 1947.

 

[Awesome]

Those militants have taken lives of innocent Indian citizens apart from soldiers, you call that legitimate.

If that has happened, then thats not good. But the intent is not to kill civilians it is to kill Indian soldiers. Mistakes happen and that too is India's fault since the conflict exists since India does not agree to peaceful means of settling the issue and Musharraf said the same, if India doesn't agree peacefully it will get the stick.

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

one counter question
are there no pakistani in BLA?

i think Indian involvement in Baluchistan and Afghan is justified now

Right now you'll start with the offtopic counter question rants, how typically Indian.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

But Pakistan's reduction of forces is a prerequisite since Pakistan was the aggressor in 1947.

That's just an Indian fairytale, no where in the UN it says so it clearly gives numbers of reduction

 

[karan.1970]

one counter question
are there no pakistani in BLA?

i think Indian involvement in Baluchistan and Afghan is justified now

I dont agree. India's involvement in any activity directly leading to deaths of civilians is not justified. You dont become a terrorist to tackle a terrorist. You become an Anti Terrorist soldier and kill the terrorist.

There are more ways to taking punitive actions against Pakistan other than attacking its civilians. India is already taking those actions and a lot of results are already visible.

 

[karan.1970]

That is the Indian position and, I will concede, some countries will parrot that view in light of India's economic clout. Hence my point about the need to fight India on the economics playing field.

So unless Pakistan makes India insignificant in the world political order, no country will take sides and it will remain locked between India and Pakistan. Understand that while Pakistan needs the world to take its side to change the status quo, India does not. Status quo works fine for us..

No, he admitted providing support. Support does not imply genesis.

Being indegenous does not depend only on genesis, but also on means of sustainence.

Not really. Most of the world is only concerned about terrorists (AQ and gang).

The Kashmiri freedom fighters are off the radar for them.

A lot of organizations involved only in Kashmir issue are labled terrorists by the UNSC and countries like US, UK etc. From 10,000 miles away, the lines are not that sharply defined..

 

[karan.1970]

If that has happened, then thats not good. But the intent is not to kill civilians it is to kill Indian soldiers. Mistakes happen and that too is India's fault since the conflict exists since India does not agree to peaceful means of settling the issue and Musharraf said the same, if India doesn't agree peacefully it will get the stick.

And you know the bold part how?? Do I need to be scared talking to you

That's just an Indian fairytale, no where in the UN it says so it clearly gives numbers of reduction

Care to educate me by showing the relavent parts where the original resolution of Pakistan having to withdraw was overridden??

 

[Illusive]

Withdrawal of forces can only happen provided right environment. Pakistan is backing insurgency to disrupt peace in the valley and you think Indian troops are gonna sit and watch. Man if you people want to liberate Kashmir, come with your armed forces, we don't mind. But don't play this dirty game.

 

[DeathGod]

Well we can fill pages after pages of arguments and counter arguments(which is most often the case on this site) but the ground reality and history will never change.

The history as I ( and most) see it is as follows:

1. Pakistan regular and non regular warriors ILLEGALLY invade Kashmir, a sovereign land till that time.

2. The barbarity of the attackers forces the ruler to seek amnesty and join India in the process.

3. JL Nehru promises the people of Kashmir their right to self determination on the condition that Pakistan armed forces beat a retreat.

4. Pakistan never packs up because they know they dont exist in the hearts and minds of Kashmiris.

5. Pakistan starts a war on the pre-text of freeing Kashmir. Less does she know that the locals will kick the but-ts of their forces and force them out.

6. When all fails Pakistan indulges in training merceneries and terrorists. This results in ethnic cleansing and changes the demography of Kashmir forever.

7. People in Kashmir are systematically brain-washed by people who were paid by Pakistan.

8. IA enters Kashmir and quells the miscreants.

9. Well terrorism fails, Pakistan resorts to Kargil. Pakistan looses the war and her face in the international community.

10. Kashmir remains a part of India. All the sacrifices on the IA and common civilians have strengthed resolve to not give up Kashmir.

11. Pakistan gets a taste of its own medicine and is in crisis.

We can all debate and talk about what is right or wrong, however there is only one truth and that is while India is shinning, Pakistan is in an abyss and the reasons for same are its obsession of India and Kashmir.

 

[Awesome]

And you know the bold part how?? Do I need to be scared talking to you




Care to educate me by showing the relavent parts where the original resolution of Pakistan having to withdraw was overridden??

No do your own googling. It's been posted in each and every single thread whenever UN resolutions are debated till each side turns blue.

 

[Fasih Khan]

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own

interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United

Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful

manner.

Says it all

 

[Von Hölle]

Says it all

Then don't crib if India in self defence does the same in Pakistan!!

 

[karan.1970]

No do your own googling. It's been posted in each and every single thread whenever UN resolutions are debated till each side turns blue.

My point exactly. You cant take an unclear arguement to impart credibility and legitimacy to another of your aurguements..

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Now Musharaf plays the Kashmir card... The guy knows no shame... For someone who is willing to sell his own country for a cheap price, its interesting to hear him talk about Kashmir in this way... heh