What's new

Southern Han Chinese and their relationship with the Baiyue

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wu Yue was first Kinhdom of Bai Yue people. 越王句踐, CouJian was great Emperor in China history. and also in according to Đại Việt sử lược (), Cou Jian was sended envoy to Hung King of Van Lang to establish the ally to counter Ngô Phù Sai: 吳夫差. Hung King of Van Lang refused the proposal.

Both Goujian and Fuchai were Bai Yue, but they always believed the Hua Xia culture was superior and they were the biggest Hua Xia wannabes by themselves.

They both wanted to be part of Hua Xia, why you are trying to against the will of these two Bai Yue Kings?
 
Vietnam is always trying to hide their true ambition.

They first want to claim the entire South China Sea and to unite Southeast Asia. With the available rich natural resources, they will eventually grow stronger and try to claim the entire South China.

I am not surprised that their government is already spreading the propaganda to their ultra-nationalists that the entire South China belongs to Vietnam, and it should be taken back in the future generation.

It is not true, bro.

Vietnam claim Islands in Jiao Zhi sea only, which belong to us following rules of international law. Vietnamese controlled Islands from many hindered years in the past. We didn't have troubles with China until KMT's claim it, very recently.
 
The genetist claims that SE Asia to North East Asia migration may not contradict the anthropologist claim to North East Asia migration to SE Asia.

It appears that the proto people migrated from India, enter SE Asia through Myanmmar, from the inference of genetist. Date is 60,000 BP. From Myammar, the gene spread to SE Asia and E Asia. That is the first wave.

There are later wave of migration from East Asia to SE Asia. The anthropologist state that Malay started migrating from Taiwan around 5000-6000BP. So the next wave starting from Taiwan could have spread Malay throughout Oceania. The Thai start moving to SE Asia 1500BP. Meanwhile Burmese move to present day Myanmar.


Below, some Chinese admit they came from SE Asia
Chinese_migration.jpg



Migration of Malay.


Migraciones_austronesias.png

Migration of Thai

History of Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki states
Prior to the southwards migration of the Thai people from Yunnan in the 10th century, the Indochina peninsula had been a home to various indigenous animistic communities for as far back as 500,000 years ago.
.....

The most recent and accurate theory about the origin of the Tai people stipulates that Guangxi province in China is really the Tai motherland instead ofYunnan province. A large number of Tai people, known as the Zhuang, still live in Guangxi today. Around 700 AD, Tai people who did not come under Chinese influence settled in what is now Dien Bien Phu in modern Vietnam according to the Khun Borom legend. From there, the Tais began to radiate into northern highlands and founded the cities of Luang Prabang and Chiang Saen.

Migration of Bamar

From Wiki
Bamar people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Bamar are of East Asian descent, and speak a Sino-Tibetan language (related to Tibetan, and more distantly to Chinese). They migrated from the present day Yunnan in China into the Irrawaddy River valley in Upper Burma about 1200–1500 years ago. Over the last millennium, they have largely replaced/absorbed the Mon and the earlier Pyu, ethnic groups that formerly dominated the Ayeyarwady valley

Peopling of SE Asia and Southern Chinese

Earlier wave of migration suggested by genetist that human move from SE Asia to China. But historically evidences indicates that there is a reverse migration, from the East to SE Asia.

Migration pattern of East Asia and SE Asia are still a contention topic. The ancient people of Southern China moved to SE Asia and dominated them linguistically and culturally in later stage. They produced mestizo. While the remaining people of Southern China mixed with Northern Chinese.

Looking at Cavalli-Sforza, Northern Chinese are indeed far apart from Southern Chinese.

Capture2.PNG
 
Both Goujian and Fuchai were Bai Yue, but they always believed the Hua Xia culture was superior and they were the biggest Hua Xia wannabes by themselves.

They both wanted to be part of Hua Xia, why you are trying to against the will of these two Bai Yue Kings?

It was self determination of your ancestors, I and you, we can not change it now. Problem is debated now here on forum, it is just because you clam youself are Han in ethnicity. My idea, it is wrong. You could be Wu Yue in ethnic group, in the country called China today. Wu Yue is your true identity.
 
The Yue in Chinese history does not refer to Kinhs. It is just a general term for the Southern people. We know there are still many tribes in Southern China, like Kinhs, Hmong, Zhuang, Thai, Derung, Nu, Kachin, Malay.....etc.

The Chinese history book are not able to identify them one by one. They call them Baiyue, means hundred Yue people.
 
Wu Yue was first Kinhdom of Bai Yue people. 越王句踐, CouJian was great Emperor in China history. and also in according to Đại Việt sử lược (), Cou Jian was sended envoy to Hung King of Van Lang to establish the ally to counter Ngô Phù Sai: 吳夫差. Hung King of Van Lang refused the proposal.
Goujian was never emperor,Qin Shihuang was the first to use this title.

Show the quote in Hanzi first.

Notice how 吳越春秋,越絕書,史記 etc never mention this event.

Most likely its a fabrication unless you can prove otherwise.

EastSea you're contributing nothing to the thread except aggravating Chinese members.

Labeling modern day Han Chinese as Baiyue doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
 
at beginning statement of Đại Việt sử lược ( ), and Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư ( 大越史記全書), it stated:

"when huangdi (god) created many countries, looked at Jiao Zhi people, who is outside of Bai Yue ...". It mean, from ancient time our ancestors did not considered themselves belong to Bai Yue.

However, the statement about the Van Lang and Xich Quy Kingdom, it was stated that North point of Van Lang is reached to Dongding lake in China. Our ancient land was in Southern land of China today.
 
at beginning statement of Đại Việt sử lược ( ), and Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư ( 大越史記全書), it stated:

"when huangdi (god) created many countries, looked at Jiao Zhi people, who is outside of Bai Yue ...". It mean, from ancient time our ancestors did not considered themselves belong to Bai Yue.

However, the statement about the Van Lang and Xich Quy Kingdom, it was stated that North point of Van Lang is reached to Dongding lake in China. Our ancient land was in Southern land of China today.
Show the quotes in Hanzi.

Where do these books quote the information from?

For the umpteenth time show relevant textual records(books written 1000 years later is hardly objective) and archaeological proof.

Your irredentism is getting on my nerves,look back at my older posts to see why your legends are simply fabrications.
 
Goujian was never emperor,Qin Shihuang was the first to use this title.

Show the quote in Hanzi first.

Notice how 吳越春秋,越絕書,史記 etc never mention this event.

Most likely its a fabrication unless you can prove otherwise.

EastSea you're contributing nothing to the thread except aggravating Chinese members.

Labeling modern day Han Chinese as Baiyue doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Emperor is the King in his country, where he is reigned in highest position of ruling system, not for all territories of China in ancient time.

if you like, I can change the English word "Emperor" to the "King". King Goujian's reign in conflict of the Spring and Autumn Period, the struggle between Wu and Yue, wherein he eventually led his state to victory, annexing the rival. As such King Goujian is sometimes considered the last of the Five Hegemons.

There was the first Kingdom of Bai Yue people in China history.
 
Emperor is the King in his country, where he is reigned in highest position of ruling system, not for all territories of China in ancient time.

if you like, I can change the English word "Emperor" to the "King". King Goujian's reign in conflict of the Spring and Autumn Period, the struggle between Wu and Yue, wherein he eventually led his state to victory, annexing the rival. As such King Goujian is sometimes considered the last of the Five Hegemons.

There was the first Kingdom of Bai Yue people in China history.
No,during Goujian's era there was no concept of Huangdi only Wang you're free to prove otherwise.

Why are you avoiding my questions?

You either have proof or you don't.

Either way YuYue has absolutely nothing to do with Vietnam.
 
It was self determination of your ancestors, I and you, we can not change it now. Problem is debated now here on forum, it is just because you clam youself are Han in ethnicity. My idea, it is wrong. You could be Wu Yue in ethnic group, in the country called China today. Wu Yue is your true identity.

Why the Bai Yue identity is so important to you?
 
The Yue in Chinese history does not refer to Kinhs. It is just a general term for the Southern people. We know there are still many tribes in Southern China, like Kinhs, Hmong, Zhuang, Thai, Derung, Nu, Kachin, Malay.....etc.

The Chinese history book are not able to identify them one by one. They call them Baiyue, means hundred Yue people.

when Chinese scholars mentioned about Bai Yue people, there was no " Kinh people " existed, there was Mon/Muong people was identified, who belong to Austria-Asiatic people is existed like H'mong Mien, Baipu... They were in South China in the time of Bai Yue is recognized by Chinese historian.

Vietnamese/Kinh people is became separated from Mon/Muong people from 1,300 years ago.
 
Why the Bai Yue identity is so important to you?

because the name of "Viet" in Vietnamese or Yue in Chinese is worldwide accepted for us, to Vietnam and to Vietnamese. So why, oversea Vietnamese and part of us to day living in Vietnam, they think that it mean the country Nam Yue is belong to us.

When you read our History Book Đại Việt sử lược (), Nan Yue is considered as Kingdom of Vietnam. late on, the history book Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (大越史記全書), has been corrected that there is "Outside domination period".
 
because the name of "Viet" in Vietnamese or Yue in Chinese is worldwide accepted for us, to Vietnam and to Vietnamese. So why, oversea Vietnamese and part of us to day living in Vietnam, they think that it mean the country Nam Yue is belong to us.

When you read our History Book Đại Việt sử lược (), Nan Yue is considered as Kingdom of Vietnam. late on, the history book Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (大越史記全書), has been corrected that there is "Outside domination period".

According to the history of Dai Viet, this is your territory Van Lang.

van_lang-500_tcn_500.jpg
 
It is not true, bro.

Vietnam claim Islands in Jiao Zhi sea only, which belong to us following rules of international law. Vietnamese controlled Islands from many hindered years in the past. We didn't have troubles with China until KMT's claim it, very recently.

I heard southern Hans prefer the term Tang people to Han people because Tang dynasty assimilated them as Sinitic people.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom